quote:

Originally posted by sse:
It is easy to attribute a lot of what the Biden admin has been doing as incompetence, some of it probably is. But, taking into consideration unspoken, underlying motive it may be revealed to be quite rational.

Exactly.

Biden has more masters to serve than we can count on fingers and toes. That’s what happens when you’re corrupt.

That’s why we do background checks on people at high levels of government. Apparently it doesn’t matter with the Biden crime family. Sell the country out as long as you get rich!

Robert Gates: “Joe Biden has been wrong on every single foreign policy decision ever.”

Barack Obama: “Never underestimate Joe’s ability to fuck shit up”

quote:

Originally posted by prj:
Perhaps its an attempt by Russia to boost global NG prices?

Here’s a simpler question: wouldn’t simply saying the pipelines are nearly dead while maintaining control of them serve the same purpose without needing to damage your capabilities in an attempt at a false flag? If the lines are damaged, it’s harder to sell the shit bubbling to the surface, but if you have intact infrastructure and simply say there’s not much of it, so what’s there is precious and therefore triple or quadruple the price. Better end result, no tinfoil. Hmmmm….

Germany Believes High Explosive Devices Equivalent To "500 Kilograms Of TNT" Used To Destroy Nord Stream

German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that German security officials believe "highly effective explosive devices" were used to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines in the Baltic Sea.

According to SPIEGEL information, it was calculated that explosive devices with an effect comparable to that of 500 kilograms of TNT must have been used to destroy the tubes. The seismic signals registered by various measuring stations were also included in the estimate.

The previously unknown estimates support the assumption that only a state actor can be behind the action. So far, the federal government has held back with speculation about the background to the interruption of the pipelines.

There is a lot of speculation that Russia is behind the action. The Russian leadership, however, described the process as international terrorism directed against Russia.

The federal government is hoping for more information from a more detailed examination of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines, which are interrupted to the north-east and south-east of the Baltic Sea island of Bornholm. In security circles it was said that divers or a remote-controlled robot could possibly assess the damage at the weekend.

In the best-case scenario, one could then draw initial conclusions about the type of explosion under water and the explosives used, according to security circles. However, it is difficult to predict how many traces can still be found. -- Der Spiegel

The blasts were so large that the Swedish National Seismic Network detected a 1.9 on the Richter scale and another one that registered 2.3...

Two powerful underwater explosions were detected on Monday in the same area of sea as the Nord Stream gas leaks, according to the Swedish National Seismic Network.

The monitoring network said the first explosion occurred on Monday at 2:03 a.m. Swedish time with a magnitude of 1.9 on the Richter scale, followed by a second at 7:04 p.m. on the same day with a magnitude of 2.3.

To get an idea of what the bombs had to rip through to damage the tubes, Bloomberg's Javier Blas shows NS1 and NS2 were inches thick of steel coated with tons of concrete on each section. Blas said each tube is 'very strong'.

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...dish-coastguard-says

quote:

Originally posted by P220 Smudge:
Here’s a simpler question: wouldn’t simply saying the pipelines are nearly dead while maintaining control of them serve the same purpose without needing to damage your capabilities in an attempt at a false flag? If the lines are damaged, it’s harder to sell the shit bubbling to the surface, but if you have intact infrastructure and simply say there’s not much of it, so what’s there is precious and therefore triple or quadruple the price. Better end result, no tinfoil. Hmmmm….

The world knew the lines were "dead", or not delivering. As noted yesterday, Euro gas futures had nearly halved from August high, and the blasts boosted it 13% immediately. Maybe more by now.

The more I read, the more I sense that everyone (including Russia) except Germany had something to gain, and really only Germany and Russia had something to lose.

Ultimately, we're only going to know what the investigators tell us.

quote:

Ultimately, we're only going to know what the investigators tell us.

Which is nothing. If they can even determine, which I doubt.

Putin annexed four eastern regions of Ukraine today. Added to Crimea, this constitutes about 20% of Ukraine territory and over 11 million people.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...anctions/8129099001/

1938 all over again. Who mucked with the timeline?

Simply waiting for the other shoe to drop since blowing up his fucking pipelines…

The gas line explosions are weird enough to believe the Russians did it - it fucks with Germany but otherwise accomplishes nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Putin annexed four eastern regions of Ukraine today. Added to Crimea, this constitutes about 20% of Ukraine territory and over 11 million people.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...anctions/8129099001/

At least Blinken borrowed a pair of stones long enough to announce that the US "does not and will not" recognize any Russian seizures of Ukrainian territory by force. So far, the "annexation" barely exists on paper.

I'm not sure I understand the move. If it didn't keep Crimea from getting hit (on multiple occasions, to the point that most Russian ships have left Sevastopol) and those hits didn't trigger some major Russian action, then why would it matter to anyone if Putin goes through with these fake annexations?

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
The gas line explosions are weird enough to believe the Russians did it - it fucks with Germany but otherwise accomplishes nothing.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Putin annexed four eastern regions of Ukraine today. Added to Crimea, this constitutes about 20% of Ukraine territory and over 11 million people.

https://www.usatoday.com/story...anctions/8129099001/

At least Blinken borrowed a pair of stones long enough to announce that the US "does not and will not" recognize any Russian seizures of Ukrainian territory by force. So far, the "annexation" barely exists on paper.

I'm not sure I understand the move. If it didn't keep Crimea from getting hit (on multiple occasions, to the point that most Russian ships have left Sevastopol) and those hits didn't trigger some major Russian action, then why would it matter to anyone if Putin goes through with these fake annexations?

Under Russian-law, it allows Putin to 'legally-justify' (Russian law mind you) using nukes. Nukes are only used if Russia itself is under attack. Well, now that these four regions are 'apart of Russia', they can justify the use of some 'stronger options' as things don't look like things are going to change.

Putin & Friends are completely disconnected from reality. Their military is pathetically out of date, despite the weapons advances their engineers have been able to create. The guys in uniform are no better than a middle east military, complete with all the corruption, inattention to morale, slapdash training and ham-fisted war planning. Now with this mass call-up, more military age men have left Russia, then were in the invasion as a whole, that's a big sign Vlad!

I haven’t heard this yet, but “who benefits” from the gas explosion?

Not Germany - manufacturing economy is driven by lower energy prices
Not Russia - can no longer export gas to Europe/Germany, even if desired.

Ignoring the US, for obvious reasons, which country has the resources to pull this off, would like to see Russia weakened from a geopolitical standpoint and Germany weakened from a manufacturing standpoint as a competitor? Oh yeah, bonus points if the US is implicated, to drive a rift in Euro/American relations.

All in in China behind this, it just makes sense.

Didn’t Biden just speak today about brokering a deal for Canadian hydrocarbon exports to Europe now?

I’m sure they have some kind of plan… Even if it’s not very good. But there’s no doubt the USA did the sabotage.

Hell, a Polish diplomat just sent a tweet thanking the USA for the job! Then promptly deleted the tweet a little later.

At what point does Russia engage in a general mobilization? Ukraine asking for official NATO membership?

NATO, under US leadership has been engaged in a 'Lebensraum' policy again Russia, even though NATO said it would not. Ok, don't like 'Lebensraum', use 'Manifest Destiny'.

The Ukraine has never been a country. Sort of like Kurdistan for instance. Go back 1200 years when the Kingdom of Poland-Lithuania ruled eastern Europe from the Baltic down to the Black Sea. It stretched further east then Kiev and pretty close to modern Moscow. Lasted for about 300 years, ending with the partition of Poland by Russia and Austria in 1700 or so.

If it is true that there is oil and nat gas in the Ukraine, that explain our Oligarchs interest and love for the poor Ukrainian people at this time. Yea, sure, they care for them.

So, can we expect an 80th anniversary of Operation Uranus in mid November. And remember the Soviets actually opened 2 major offensives at that time, one in the south and the other in the North, that stretched German Luftwaffe resources for resupply of trapped armies / corps.

Right now the Ukraine is doing well due to US intelligence and some good western hardware. Iraq - Iran proxy war of the '80, anyone. Without US intel and western military hardware, Iraq would have been toast.

Russia many not win, but both sides can still lose, unless President Reagan's Star Wars program is now for real.

quote:

Originally posted by icom706:
At what point does Russia engage in a general mobilization? Ukraine asking for official NATO membership?

That's rather an important point - Putin hasn't been able to justify it to the other Russians yet.

quote:

NATO, under US leadership has been engaged in a 'Lebensraum' policy again Russia, even though NATO said it would not. Ok, don't like 'Lebensraum', use 'Manifest Destiny'.

It's clear that neither is true - NATO isn't making any kind of bid to take territory from any nation. What they're trying to do is live up to the commitments that both the West and Russia made to maintain Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

quote:

The Ukraine has never been a country.

Actually both Russia and the international community formally recognized Ukraine as a sovereign and independent country, and Ukraine existed a few hundred years before the Duchy of Moscow - much less modern Russia - ever did.

quote:

If it is true that there is oil and nat gas in the Ukraine, that explain our Oligarchs interest and love for the poor Ukrainian people at this time. Yea, sure, they care for them.

But it somehow fails to explain Russia's sudden interest in and assiduous care for the 'ethnic Russians' that Russia transplanted to precisely those parts of Ukraine that are rich in oil, natural gas and coal? Riiiiiight.

quote:

Russia may not win, but both sides can still lose

That both sides lose something (and have lost something) is simply a function of what war is. We haven't seen anything yet to tell us that the Ukrainians - certainly with Western support - can't kick the Russians completely out of all Ukrainian territory (whether Russia pretends to have 'annexed' it or not).

Ukraine has been recognized as a country by over 130 nations since 1991/1992.

Yeah, but it's a "Made up country"...



...ALL countrys are "Made up".

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
I haven’t heard this yet, but “who benefits” from the gas explosion?

All in in China behind this, it just makes sense.

Lets take that thought from the reverse....did China sail a ship into the Baltic and 'linger' for awhile while divers/remotes did their work? The Baltic is heavily monitored, haven't seen anything come up on a 'mystery ship'

Submarine employed operation - Baltic is relatively shallow, while Swedish AIP subs operate these areas, Russians don't operate a lot of subs there. Perhaps a specialty craft out of Kaliningrad or, St.Petersburg? Plausible.

Air dropped device? not likely, again heavily monitored airspace and the detonation would've had to be pretty precise, Swedish Air Force and Coast Guard was on scene not too long after getting the notice, haven't heard of any odd tracking

Send explosives through the pipeline using a pig? This would've be very likely, send it though from the Russian pumping station, nobody see's it, have a shaped-charge blow a hole at a pre-determined time and then the water pressure splits it further open. Only hole to that theory, how does ether side manage the over-pressure from the explosion rushing through the pipe? Haven't heard if either side's stations were damaged.

It is interesting that the first detonation and the second detonation were 19-hours apart.

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
I haven’t heard this yet, but “who benefits” from the gas explosion?

All in in China behind this, it just makes sense.

Lets take that thought from the reverse....did China sail a ship into the Baltic and 'linger' for awhile while divers/remotes did their work? The Baltic is heavily monitored, haven't seen anything come up on a 'mystery ship'

Quite easy, lots of Chinese flagged container/bulk traffic to the various Baltic ports. Rather simple for them to insert a team onto of those, no?

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:...Only hole to that theory, how does ether side manage the over-pressure from the explosion rushing through the pipe? Haven't heard if either side's stations were damaged.

...

Send the "Three Little Pigs" (or six...)

Or, if your really good.

"Give Me a Pig, Vasili. One Pig Only..."

Sea Drone …

Or two
Or three

Don’t think Putin sent a pig or few … he has the switch.