quote:

Originally posted by egregore:

quote:

So just to clarify, are we saying that there may be a scenario where the hammer could fall without necessarily pulling the trigger?

It would take a highly unlikely, almost inconceivable, chain or cascade of failures, but none of them are possible without at least cocking the hammer. That's on him.

I don't disagree and my comments aren't intended to relieve Baldwin's share of responsibility here but, while researching Pietta guns, I've come across annecdotes of criticisms that range from poor fit and finish, to parts breaking within 10 trigger pulls on a new gun causing stoppages. To be fair, these complaints were noted on both Pietta and Uberti cap and ball black powder revolvers, and I haven't come across them (yet) in the SAA style guns.

The problems with the parts breaking on Pietta and Uberti cap and ball black powder revolvers are so apparently accepted and understood that an aftermarket replacement parts industry has emerged for them, and some owners mention that the relative affordability of the Pietta makes them attractive because new owners can practice their home gunsmithing skills on a cheap gun that, once parts are replaced/ adjusted, make them good 'starter' guns.

So, what was the mechanical condition of the Pietta that fired the fatal round? Were parts worn? Did it have factory original or replacement parts in it? What Pietta model was it? Which generation was it and did it have a Transfer Bar?

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
The transfer bar in my Ruger is not linked to the trigger. Simply pulling the hammer back moves the transfer bar into position, ...

Yes, but watch what the trigger's doing as your cock the hammer. Start cocking the hammer, with your finger off the trigger, until you see the transfer bar rise to between the hammer and firing pin, stop before it reaches full-cock, then lower the hammer, with your finger still off the trigger, and see what the transfer bar does.

Does it retract as the hammer falls?

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
The transfer bar in my Ruger is not linked to the trigger. Simply pulling the hammer back moves the transfer bar into position, ...

Yes, but watch what the trigger's doing as your cock the hammer. Start cocking the hammer, with your finger off the trigger, until you see the transfer bar rise to between the hammer and firing pin, stop before it reaches full-cock, then lower the hammer, with your finger still off the trigger, and see what the transfer bar does.

Yes, in a fully functional revolver the transfer bar should not stay in place. But Alec is claiming he did not have a correctly functioning revolver.

I don’t think your post was incorrect, just perhaps worded wrong.

You said “If the trigger's not pulled the transfer bar remains down” which is not correct. The transfer bar absolutely begins moving into position as the hammer is cocked and does not “stay down”. As the hammer is being cocked, even at about the halfway mark, the transfer bar is high enough to strike the firing pin. However if you release the hammer at that point (or any point without pulling the trigger) the transfer bar drops below the firing pin keeping the gun from firing.

But like I said, that’s in a fully functioning revolver. I don’t know if it’s even possible that the gun could malfunction in a way that the transfer bar could stay in position without the trigger being pulled, but it does certainly get moved into a position to strike the firing pin without the trigger ever being touched.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
Does it retract as the hammer falls?

Yup.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I don’t think your post was incorrect, just perhaps worded wrong.

True: I did.

quote:

Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I don’t know if it’s even possible that the gun could malfunction in a way that the transfer bar could stay in position without the trigger being pulled, ...

I don't know, either.

I know Pieta makes SAA with and without a transfer bar.

(I seriously doubt that happened.)

quote:

Originally posted by Greymann:
I know Pieta makes SAA with and without a transfer bar.

Excellent video explanation of the SAA! Although I do wish he, or someone else, would include both the Transfer Bar and the safety features in a video explanation of the various SAA types.

Thanks also for confirming that Pietta makes SAA actions with and without Transfer Bars, as I had read that in a Pietta owners manual also.

I was cringing a little bit watching that video as he was dropping the hammer from the half cock notch. That's a really bad idea for any gun you care about maintaining in good condition. SAAs should ALWAYS be drawn to full cock before the hammer is lowered to avoid a situation where the bolt remains in the upward position and drag against the the cylinder. This is how SAAs get scratched up with a turn line on the cylinder. This really has nothing to do with the incident, but it is good practice for anyone who shoots an original-type SAA. One thing that wasn't mentioned in the video, is that in the unlikely event the full cock notch on the hammer is broken, if the hammer is drawn fully back and release without engaging the trigger, it would fall back to the half cock notch and not fire. If the half cock notch was also broken, it would fall to the safety notch. So basically all three notches on the hammer would have to be broken in order for what Baldwin described to have happened.

One of my shipmates has a 2021 Fun Fact desk calender. It was obviously printed well over a year ago.

Yesterday's Fun Fact:

in the video above that is posted by Greymann,

Baldwin says he pulled "the hammer as far back as I could without cocking the actual gun"

(starting about 35 sec into the video)

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
I was cringing a little bit watching that video as he was dropping the hammer from the half cock notch. That's a really bad idea for any gun you care about maintaining in good condition. SAAs should ALWAYS be drawn to full cock before the hammer is lowered to avoid a situation where the bolt remains in the upward position and drag against the the cylinder. This is how SAAs get scratched up with a turn line on the cylinder. This really has nothing to do with the incident, but it is good practice for anyone who shoots an original-type SAA. One thing that wasn't mentioned in the video, is that in the unlikely event the full cock notch on the hammer is broken, if the hammer is drawn fully back and release without engaging the trigger, it would fall back to the half cock notch and not fire. If the half cock notch was also broken, it would fall to the safety notch. So basically all three notches on the hammer would have to be broken in order for what Baldwin described to have happened.

Thanks again for your explanations and comments. Excellent info.

This video visually demonstrates the safety clicks and goes into what it would take to defeat the safeties on a SAA style gun.

@ 6 minute video


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HvmOpmcmwdo

Soooo...

I hear ol' Alec deleted his Twitter account.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Soooo...

I hear ol' Alec deleted his Twitter account.

Squirming....

Alec is feeling the heat. Getting a little ornery again with reporters.

A New York Post reporter confronted Alec Baldwin in NYC’s Upper East Side on Monday night.

Baldwin’s wife, Hilaria, asked the New York Post’s Jon Levine to leave.

“I ask you to leave,” Hilaria Baldwin said in her fake Spanish accent.

“Did you really not pull the trigger? Did it malfunction?” Jon Levine asked Baldwin referring to the actor’s claims he never pulled the trigger when he fatally shot producer Halyna Hutchins on the set of ‘Rust.’

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lev.../1468037683633168391

Just think of how many times each day Baldwin will knee-jerk into wanting to post on Twitter, only to recall he nuked his own shit.

I was raised not to wish bad on people, BUT, in this case, I hope this is just the beginning of Alec Baldwins shit getting nuked. Regards 18DAI

Consequences. Reap it.

Lots and lots of youtube vids appearing showing how a single action revolver can't fire itself and that ol' Alec is full of shiit! . LoLoLoLoLoLoL

Maybe we’ll get lucky and somebody will happen to be filming Alec when the shooting happened, that way we can see what his hand (or finger) was doing.

It would be even luckier if it was HD footage, like the kind they put on movie screens

While I cant expect Hollywood types to become weapons experts, one would think that production companies and directors would require at least some modicum of formal training for the guns used in the movie so that they could be used safely. How simple would it be to train actors not to cock an SAA unless actual filming was taking place? You can rehearse all you want, just dont cock it.
I have seen the videos of Cruise and Reeves training for their movie roles, but they must be the exceptions in H-Wood.