^Yes, I completely agree that the law has to determine responsibility in a stricter, more mathematical way.

quote:

Originally posted by DaveL:
As a civil legal matter, the fact that someone was shot and killed on a movie set means there was negligence.

As a CRIMINAL matter of negligence, whatever the criminal law is in NM on the incident, I hope it's not a political matter where the DA alone decides if charges should be filed.

That's the way it is in my state, and sadly the DA often decides not to press charges based on how things align politically. Hopefully NM is better in this regard, and the law is more, shall we say, blindfolded like Lady Justice.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:


Oh, he's definitely going to be sued into oblivion. Not for his role as an Actor pulling the trigger on a gun while rehearsing on set, but as the Producer who allowed this clusterfuck to happen.

The Armorer might actually be pinned down with criminal charges depending on the actual facts. Some jurisdictions allow manslaughter charges for gross negligence/wanton disregard etc. We don't know enough about the specific circumstances on how live ammo made it on set, but if she was involved, she may be found directly responsible for those deaths even.

If you look at it from a criminal standpoint, a person who fills a wine bottle with poison knowing that the bottle will be passed around at dinner doesn't absolve herself of responsibility simply because she didn't pour the fatal drink. If the bottle was filled intentionally, you'd call that person a murderer. If that bottle was filled by a person acting with gross negligence/wanton disregard for human life/etc., That person may be liable for manslaughter.

The production company will be sued, and may well be liable. I hope it has a lot of money, but it may not. I also hope it has a lot of insurance. That suit may not expose Baldwin to personal liability. That is, after all, one of the points of forming corporations - to limit the liability of shareholders, investors, limited partners, etc.

They will probably sue Baldwin personally as well. We'll see if the facts develop in a way that allows him to be tagged in his individual capacity as the person who pulled that trigger. I know many here have already made up their minds on this point, but that may not align with the facts and the law. The standard for negligence is did the person act with the care which an ordinarily prudent man would use under the circumstances. The "under the circumstances" part here will be the important part. That will require an understanding of how this is done in movie making, not what we think is what a prudent person would do on a gun range or in a hunting field.

(I know you know this already, Aetocles.)

I have a hard time accepting the narrative that "poor Alec" is an actor and Gun hater that knows little or nothing about guns.
He's been around the block for many years handling firearms as part of his job.In all the movies he has made how many involved firearms that he handled. I'm sure each time he was coached by an expert on how to handle and fire those weapons ( even with blanks or a stage gun).
I'm thinking he has had more firearms handling classes than most on this forum.

I would also find it interesting to learn if he had a CCW permit and what states he had permits for. California? New York?
He's a poster child for the "Nobody should have a firearm except me" philosophy.
This POS needs to go down HARD!

The truth will come out, but it will come out in drips and drabs. Don't hold your breath, and in the meantime, savor the delicious schadenfreude over this most deserving of loudmouth leftist assholes.

When's your next SNL gig, Alec? C'mon, you and Trump- the REAL Donald Trump. Maybe an old west skit- "this town ain't big enough for..." - oh, wait. Never mind. Sorry, man.

I hear ol' Alec is "inconsolable." Of course, that's after he made his lawyer-suggested comments on Twitter. Fucking phony. I know Baldwin feels bad right now. He feels bad because he knows he's going to get the ever-lovin' shit sued out of him. He feels bad because he knows every time he opens his mouth to someone he considers his enemy (and that, apparently, is a whole lot of people) this incident will get thrown in his face, and he knows he will have no defense, no matter how hard he tries.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
I have a hard time accepting the narrative that "poor Alec" is an actor and Gun hater that knows little or nothing about guns.
He's been around the block for many years handling firearms as part of his job.In all the movies he has made how many involved firearms that he handled. I'm sure each time he was coached by an expert on how to handle and fire those weapons ( even with blanks or a stage gun).
I'm thinking he has had more firearms handling classes than most on this forum.

I would also find it interesting to learn if he had a CCW permit and what states he had permits for. California? New York?
He's a poster child for the "Nobody should have a firearm except me" philosophy.
This POS needs to go down HARD!

It does say an awful lot when superlibs like this accept a role in film or tv, or episodic bullshit where they shoot and or carry firearms. I mean how can you, in your personal life, rail against 2A, then turn the cheek when it comes to making your millions? These people could easily stick to dramas, thrillers, there is just a plethora of film roles with no firearms. I still won’t agree with them but I at least respect someone who walks the walk that they talk even when I vehemently disagree. Play guns should be inspected before anyone handling them, each and every time, every millimeter. Blame goes all around on this one. Damn shame. RIP to this lady and her family.

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
I have a hard time accepting the narrative that "poor Alec" is an actor and Gun hater that knows little or nothing about guns.

Not me. How many trained, legal gun owners point real firearms at people AND pull the trigger, w/ OR w/o checking if it's loaded- because they all are.
You could say it's for the film but they weren't even filming. It's a set w/ live ammo. He knows it. If he was so well experienced, he would have been the last in a series of overlapping safeties to have prevented it.

I picture, when news of this was released, Trey Parker and Matt Stone slowly turned to each other and an eyebrow or two were raised. "Too Soon" could be the title of the episode.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiets:
I picture, when news of this was released, Trey Parker and Matt Stone slowly turned to each other and an eyebrow or two were raised. "Too Soon" could be the title of the episode.

Prophets.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Do we? Has a report been issued with details of the slug that was fired, what its composition was, the shell casing, were the rest of the rounds in the gun actual blanks or live rounds?, who loaded them, who made them, how were they marked or labeled, as blanks? Were any of them improperly manufactured or labeled. How far away from the camera and cinematographer was Baldwin when he fired the round, 20 feet, 10 feet, 5 feet, was the armorer present when the assistant director grabbed the gun off the table, was she asked which gun to use, is there film of the event,

Cut me a bit of slack will ya. I didn't suggest I had all the answers, or even a chunk of facts. All I did was extrapolate from what we do know to have happened (i.e. Baldwin fired a gun, the projectile struck and killed one person and wounded another), and suggested a blank round would not generate that sort of damage. If the investigation proves that statement to be incorrect, check back here for my mea culpa.

quote:

All kinds of information is needed to make a decent conclusion on culpability of one or all involved.

Which is why I didn't go so far as to claim this shooting was anyone in particular's fault, but rather, that responsibility may indeed fall on multiple people when all the facts are in.

quote:

If not for the shooter being Alec Baldwin, would we normally be discussing this at this early point?

We have many times in the past. Baldwin makes it juicier to some, but I find the entire encounter interesting as we discuss and debate different aspects of it.

quote:

To date there are zero confirmed facts,

Wrong.
1 - Baldwin fired the gun.
2 - One person was shot to death.
3 - One person was wounded and is recovering. Those are all facts at this point.

quote:

Once the ME and State of NM release the findings we'll know what happened

Agreed. Which is why I noted just that in a prior post.

I don't think we'll know what happened until the inevitable civil suits begin to get resolved, and that's going to be two or three years at a bare minimum, and might be five years or longer.

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but Alec Baldwin is THE BOSS. One of the film production companies is EL Dorado Pictures.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1...redits?ref_=tt_dt_co

The principal officer of El Dorado Pictures is... Alec Baldwin!

El Dorado Pictures is a California Domestic Corporation filed On March 24, 1994. The company's filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is C1884755.

The Registered Agent on file for this company is C T Corporation System and is located at 818 West Seventh St Ste 930, Los Angeles, CA 90017. The company's mailing address is 509 Madison Ave, New York, NY 10022.

The company has 1 principal on record. The principal is Alexander R Baldwin from New York NY.

https://www.bizapedia.com/ca/el-dorado-pictures.html

He wasn't just an actor, he was the boss.

Tony.

Yeah, and that's why he's "inconsolable" right now. He sees his wealth going bye-bye.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The shot that was heard around the world.

https://www.foxnews.com/entert...ins-died-in-his-arms

'Rust' movie head electrician says he was 'holding' Halyna Hutchins in his 'arms while she was dying'

Serge Svetnoy, the head electrician/gaffer of the movie "Rust," penned an emotional post on social media about the death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins after a prop gun shooting on set.

On Facebook Sunday, Svetnoy blamed Hutchins' death on "the person who was supposed to check the weapon on the site did not do this; the person who had to announce that the loaded gun was on the site did not do this; the person who should have checked this weapon before bringing it to the set did not do it."

He claimed she died as a result of both "negligence and unprofessionalism."

"To save a dime sometimes you hire people who are not fully qualified for the complicated and dangerous job, and you risk the lives of the other people who are close and your lives as well," Svetnoy wrote. "I understand that you always fight for the budget, but you cannot allow this to happen."

Svetnoy confirmed he was standing next to Hutchins when she was shot and held her as she died on the New Mexico movie set.

"Yes, I was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Halyna during this fatal shot that took her life and injured the director Joel Souza," Svetnoy recalled. "I was holding her in my arms while she was dying. Her blood was on my hands."

He continued: "I’m sure that we had the professionals in every department, but one – the department that was responsible for the weapons. There is no way a twenty-four-year-old woman can be a professional with armory; there is no way that her more-or-less the same-aged friend from school, neighborhood, Instagram, or God knows where else, can be a professional in this field."

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
He continued: "I’m sure that we had the professionals in every department, but one – the department that was responsible for the weapons. There is no way a twenty-four-year-old woman can be a professional with armory; there is no way that her more-or-less the same-aged friend from school, neighborhood, Instagram, or God knows where else, can be a professional in this field."

There it is, and it doesn't matter who her daddy is. And it doesn't let Baldwin off the hook, because he was not just a producer of the film; he was a producer of the film who was actually on the set. He cannot say "I was not aware."

Just as I thought. Either way, Alec is responsible. I’ll be surprised if this movie gets finished

So what is the difference between unloading a Colt

SAA Revolver and a Ruger SA Revolver?


Thank you.

quote:

Originally posted by George43:
So what is the difference between unloading a Colt SAA Revolver and a Ruger SA Revolver?

In the Ruger, it is not necessary to place the hammer at half-cock in order to allow the cylinder to rotate. In the Ruger, opening the loading gate frees the cylinder to rotate.

Yeah, and that's just the beginning of the stuff ol' Alec is going to have to learn to put up with. Ain't it delicious?