quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
This thread is really disappointing in that the people who know the voluminous regulations and rules that must be applied are being systemically shouted down by people with opinions and some back seat travel time. There are a million nuances that we are trying to get across, but no one wants to hear it.

Nobody gives a shit about that.
Those are the airline's problems to work out.

The employees are paid to work those problems.

Everyone here, almost without exception, has busted their ass and coped with all kinds of unrealistic expectations and pressures in their professional life. So you're not going to find a lot of sympathy in that regard.

It's been pointed out a THOUSAND times, if the airlines REALLY needed those seats, PAY UP. Sweeten the offer.
Sweeten it enough and the crew will have the entire aircraft to themselves.

quote:

This thread is really disappointing in that the people who know the voluminous regulations and rules that must be applied are being systemically shouted down by people with opinions and some back seat travel time. There are a million nuances that we are trying to get across, but no one wants to hear it.

We hear it - there are regulations.

As has been repeated ad nauseum. United FUCKED up.
They should have offered more $$$ till they got the seats they needed. It really is that simple.

The initial responses by the CEO point to the arrogance and lack of customer care.
The statements out there by the United Pilots Union saying it was not their fault it was the Airport Police , point to the blindness you pilots are showing.
Willful ignorance / arrogance whatever......

Not all flyers choose cheapest. I for one choose based on connections and time.

As others have posted - spend some time on the other side of the cabin door and see how your CUSTOMERS are treated. Maybe then you will start to understand - THIS was the straw that broke the camels back.


From this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...s-Dao-s-removal.html

'2. No United employees were involved in the physical altercation.

'3. Social media ire should properly be directed at the Chicago Aviation Department.

'4. This occurred on an Express flight operated by Republic Airline, as such, the flight crew and cabin crew of Flight 3411 are employees of Republic Airline, not United Airlines.

They JUST DONT GET IT !!!

Disclaimer: busy and only read some posts.

Regardless of regulations, this seems like an internal operational issue. The big corporation needs to do a better job of planning and mitigating to avoid these situations and a much better job of contingency planning when these issue do pop up.

Solving internal operational issues by inconveniencing customers is astounding to me.

quote:

Originally posted by mod29:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
This thread is really disappointing in that the people who know the voluminous regulations and rules that must be applied are being systemically shouted down by people with opinions and some back seat travel time. There are a million nuances that we are trying to get across, but no one wants to hear it.

Nobody gives a shit about that.
Those are the airline's problems to work out.

The employees are paid to work those problems.

Everyone here, almost without exception, has busted their ass and coped with all kinds of unrealistic expectations and pressures in their professional life. So you're not going to find a lot of sympathy in that regard.

It's been pointed out a THOUSAND times, if the airlines REALLY needed those seats, PAY UP. Sweeten the offer.
Sweeten it enough and the crew will have the entire aircraft to themselves.

Thanks for proving that point, carry on with your pitchforks. I'll be at starbucks with the other pilots.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:

quote:

Originally posted by mod29:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffxjet:
This thread is really disappointing in that the people who know the voluminous regulations and rules that must be applied are being systemically shouted down by people with opinions and some back seat travel time. There are a million nuances that we are trying to get across, but no one wants to hear it.

Nobody gives a shit about that.
Those are the airline's problems to work out.

The employees are paid to work those problems.

Everyone here, almost without exception, has busted their ass and coped with all kinds of unrealistic expectations and pressures in their professional life. So you're not going to find a lot of sympathy in that regard.

It's been pointed out a THOUSAND times, if the airlines REALLY needed those seats, PAY UP. Sweeten the offer.
Sweeten it enough and the crew will have the entire aircraft to themselves.

Thanks for proving that point, carry on with your pitchforks. I'll be at starbucks with the other pilots.

Pardon the hell outta me.
I had no idea I was supposed to help the airlines manage their logistics.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
What's your point with all this? Are you a lobbyist for the airline industry?

And you're mistaken. I'd say that the reaction you see in this thread is an indication of how people in this country feel about flying cattle cars. Everyone can relate to it and everyone has an opinion on the subject.

My point is that what happened was a single event and not something that happens daily. According to the FAA site, 2.2M people fly everyday. Being Daoed didn't happen anywhere else today or yesterday or any other time that anyone can remember.

I don't work as a lobbyist or for an airline. I'm just a guy who flies rarely and then it's in coach.

This is not a situation similar to Target or with Kellogg's. Those were corporate social decisions designed to affect one or more groups of specifically identifiable people. The UA policy applied to anyone without distinction and Dr. Dao is the only person who suffered like this. That's not a systemic problem when it only affects one person out of 2.2M.

Everyone has an opinion and mine is that UA fucked up but by Labor Day this will be a non-event that will not affect UA at all. Price is the sole concern. That's it.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Everyone has an opinion and mine is that UA fucked up but by Labor Day this will be a non-event that will not affect UA at all. Price is the sole concern. That's it.

No, I don't believe so. People will remember this. People remember Rodney King. People remember events like this. Passengers who travel are already nervous. Many, for some time to come, will be concerned that this could be them. People will remember the way that the airlines, and by extension their employees responded on social media to this. People on this forum will remember the pilots who were smug and condescending.

The airline employees here display all of the traits of why this happens. They are put in a position to where they literally have become too big for the britches. The find it personally acceptable to act the way they do, and speak to everyone they way they do. In reading their posts, they are bullies. They think that they are too big to fail.

I really wonder what their employers will think to read their posts here? I wonder if their employers would approve of the smug attitudes? They embody the culture of the industry. Who gives a crap about the customers, it is about ticket prices and how best to make money. You notice the only ones defending this are the ones that profit from the culture.

Every bully falls. Not a matter of if, just when.

quote:

Everyone has an opinion and mine is that UA fucked up but by Labor Day this will be a non-event that will not affect UA at all. Price is the sole concern. That's it.

I am sure that was the attitude of Oscar Munoz. We shall see. The American public is Mad as Hell and we aren't gonna take it anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Everyone has an opinion and mine is that UA fucked up but by Labor Day this will be a non-event that will not affect UA at all. Price is the sole concern. That's it.

I am sure that was the attitude of Oscar Munoz. We shall see. The American public is Mad as Hell and we aren't gonna take it anymore.

On a side note, Finally a quoted response from you where I don't think your reply is actually your signature.

Unfortunately, UA has been plagued by a lack of vision and leadership from their executive group. I believe the last 3-4 CEO's are not prior airline executives but, bankers. Financial types, always looking at the bottom line, finding expense channels to trim and squeezing every last ounce out of each flight. If the UA board of directors are looking to clean things up and improve their brand image, they'd be best served by hiring a bunch of executives and managers that ran Virgin America. VA had the most loyal and passionate customer base, if UA could understand an ounce of what made that brand tick, they'd be better for it.

quote:

People will remember the way that the airlines, and by extension their employees responded on social media to this. People on this forum will remember the pilots who were smug and condescending.

And This is EXACTLY the point !!

Read the post from the United Pilot union..

"Wasn't us, it was the Airport Police"
"Wasn't us, it was Republic airlines"
"We are INFURIATED coz people are blaming us ...."

People WILL remember this for a LONG time.

It is one thing to FUCK UP - but own it , take responsibility , and whatever you do don't throw more gasoline on the fire with the bull about how everyone else is to blame.

THAT is the systemic problem here ........

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

Everyone has an opinion and mine is that UA fucked up but by Labor Day this will be a non-event that will not affect UA at all. Price is the sole concern. That's it.

I am sure that was the attitude of Oscar Munoz. We shall see. The American public is Mad as Hell and we aren't gonna take it anymore.

Take what anymore? What was happening to you? You mean overbooking? That's not going away. No airline will do that.

One guy out of millions per year. You're going to do what exactly? Not fly if you need to get somewhere?

People forgave Ford over the Pinto problem and they made changes. Jack in the Box over the undercooked hamburgers and Tylenol too.

It's pure fanatasy to think that you're a force of sorts behind a policy change. UA changed their policy today. What else are you demanding as a social justice warrior?

quote:

On a side note, Finally a quoted response from you where I don't think your reply is actually your signature.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please let me know what I am doing incorrectly that is confusing you. Should I be leaving the checkmark in the Signature each time? Thank you. I do not wish to be troublesome.

quote:

It's pure fanatasy to think that you're a force of sorts behind a policy change. UA changed their policy today. What else are you demanding as a social justice warrior?

====================================================================================================

Thanks but I am no social justice warrior, just an ordinary guy. Most people on this forum are not elitists.

I have read this entire thread and am curious how so much of the discourse revolves around the flight crew. Either the one being sent to another airport, or the one actually flying the aircraft in this MCF.

As I understand it, no flight crew member was involved in any way, other than having to be on the plane.

The MCF was caused by the gate crew who seated all the passengers and then had to deal with getting 4 of those seated passengers to VOLUNTARILY give up their seats. Instead of exercising the slightest bit of professionalism, they sent in some bullies, who are apparently not even real cops, to drag the doctor off the plane.

They accomplished their task, but beating the hell out of the doctor, causing serious damage to him. Lost teeth, broken nose, etc.

And those phony "cops" then came up with that age old explanation, "He feel down!".

The airline is 100% responsible for this MCF, and it has nothing to do with any of the flight crew, or the need to get 4 flight crew members to another flight.

My question is just what actions will be taken against the UAL employees who actually instigated this mess, and those pretend cops who physically abused the doctor.

I am flying out on UAL on next Wednesday. Will give a "range report" when I get back, but that will be about 3 weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
It's pure fanatasy to think that you're a force of sorts behind a policy change. UA changed their policy today. What else are you demanding as a social justice warrior?

What is your malfunction, man? What do you think you're doing when you post this stuff?

Elk

I believe I answered your Q here :-
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...490086224#9490086224

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:

quote:

On a side note, Finally a quoted response from you where I don't think your reply is actually your signature.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please let me know what I am doing incorrectly that is confusing you. Should I be leaving the checkmark in the Signature each time? Thank you. I do not wish to be troublesome.

Stop putting the separating line before your response. You can see that the quoted text is already separated from the response as long as you reply outside of the /QUOTE brackets. It used to confuse me because that is what some people do to distinguish their signatures from their posts and I have trained my self to skip over most signature blocks.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
...People forgave Ford over the Pinto problem and they made changes...

Yes, but it took nearly an entire generation before people forgave GM for the Corvair fiasco in which they hired private detectives to dig dirt on Ralph Nader.

Ironically, both the Pinto and the Corvair were good vehicles that were victims of slanderous stories, but Ford said "mea culpa" and recovered as a company rather quickly, while GM played the blame game, much like United did this time, and suffered.

quote:

Stop putting the separating line before your response. You can see that the quoted text is already separated from the response as long as you reply outside of the /QUOTE brackets. It used to confuse me because that is what some people do to distinguish their signatures from their posts and I have trained my self to skip over most signature blocks.

Thanks I have some visual issues.