^^^^^^^^^ Too soon.......Friday would have been perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
And I have EARNED the right to express MY opinion over 30 years and over 25,000 flight hours in a cockpit. I have seen every side of this business, the good, the bad and everything in between. Like I said numerous times now just like MY cockpit and MY airplane (by law) is MY toybox...this toybox is yours. I wont be goaded into saying something rash. Im more professional than that. Experience in my field has told me when to smile and go on my merry way.

No, it's not a matter of being "goaded". You've already said it, and you said it on your own, and for God's sake, will you please stop with this "your toybox" crap? Please, just stop with that stuff.

quote:

What we have here is a feeding frenzy. Its not the civilized discussion I have come to expect from this Board.

Oh, please. Enough with the drama. Just say that you really don't like what's being said in this thread and that you take it very personally. Please just stop with the drama.

This "I'm not going to say it" when you've already said it- come on. Let's stop with the games.

Read through this whole thread as well as all the links thrown my way throughout the day. The pilot wife read brought something very important to mind, so I felt like chiming in and setting everything straight before this derailed too much.

Guys, I'm the ex husband of a pilot's wife and I'm here to tell you...

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Put this one issue to bed. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. The only way to get a crew to another city is to fly them. If its the last flight of the day you end up with a decision with no great choices. You pick the least bad and hope somebody doesn't throw a potted plant through a window.

I think we can all agree there are times an airline might need to ferry some workers somewhere. Might even be an emergency due to staffing issues or whatever. No argument from me.

The problem we have here with United, is how they created the room on that flight for their employees.

No volunteers to de-board the aircraft? Fine, we'll drag you off physically and bloody your ass up in the process.

Fuck that.

If it's REALLY necessary to get your employees somewhere at the trouble & expense of your paying customers, the obvious thing to do is offer enough compensation so you have enough volunteers to give up their seat.

Is this really so difficult to comprehend?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
There is no airplane to "rent" and send them either. ORD doesn't have planes to rent.

If there is no Part 135 operator at ORD (I don't know whether there is or not), I have a really shiny dime to bet that there certainly is one within 20 minutes flying or one hour driving time. Midway? Palwaukee? DuPage? Gary? Joliet? Come on dude, anything from a C-210 or a BE-36 on up would have been able to do the job easily.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I don't jump into threads and tell guys who are general contractors the right way to build a deck, just because well, I own a deck.

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...170006224#4170006224

In this thread you were handing out advice about Kyle Lamb, until you got called out on it, and then you started this and that advising us all to "read the article", "lol" and whatnot. You seem to love to hand out advice and opinion on stuff you obviously have no clue over, but want to criticize people when they do the same.

Do you work in the firearms print industry? If not, by your logic, you are not intelligent enough to DARE to breath an opinion.

You might want to back up and punt at this point.

I have had my fill of "You guys don't know jack shit".

I know plenty and I know what I see in that video and I am aware of the circumstances leading up to it, but because I don't work for Delta, I can't express my opinions on this incident. Freakin' ridiculous and I have had my fill of it, all the way to top.

I'm sure that's incredibly frustrating for those who think we're children who must sit quietly and listen to the airline employees. Jesus Christ, man. You guys act like you own flight itself.

I suppose since we're not politicians in Washington, we can no longer offer up political opinions. Based upon the comments of some airline employees in this thread, that's how things work- no first-hand, insider, been-doing-it-for-ages knowledge? Then just you be quiet. You're not in Washington, so you don't know what you're talking about.

That's what I'm seeing.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I have had my fill of "You guys don't know jack shit".

Well, I don't know jack about running an airline, but I do know what I, as a consumer, am willing to pay for and put up with. I do fly occasionally, as I must do for business, but I do it reluctantly and go to great lengths to avoid it for personal travel. I don't care about fine print, whether it is legal or not, I can't stand how I am treated as a passenger in many of the steps of the air travel experience, and I am exercising my free will to not pay for the poor service and humiliating experience. It's not a "boycott," it's the free market, baby.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
There is no airplane to "rent" and send them either. ORD doesn't have planes to rent.

If there is no Part 135 operator at ORD (I don't know whether there is or not), I have a really shiny dime to bet that there certainly is one within 20 minutes flying or one hour driving time. Midway? Palwaukee? DuPage? Gary? Joliet? Come on dude, anything from a C-210 or a BE-36 on up would have been able to do the job easily.

Also Executive airport is 15 minutes from ORD. Small jets and props mainly private and some charter.

these 2 pics (and the related videos) will play a big part in any settlement





I think the second pic is where David Dao's face was injured

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20170411-story.html

The Association of Flight Attendants agreed. An involuntary bump "should never result in a passenger being physically injured," spokeswoman Taylor Garland said.

The aviation security officer who pulled the man from his seat was placed on leave Monday, "pending a thorough review of the situation," the Chicago Department of Aviation said in a statement.

Here's what I know. In a civil society people don't get bloodied because of corporate expediency.

I don't know anything about the airline industry, except the one that straps guns to their aircraft, but from what I know about people, I'm guessing Mr. Munoz about now is wishing somebody had offered a million bucks to anyone willing to deplane to accommodate the spare crew. Apparently Dr. Dao is now well lawyered-up....

Fly-Sig,

you wrote that the pilot's wife account is accurate.

she said:

"They" being United

"They had nothing to do with the rest. The passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation security (the disturbing clip that everyone is talking about) after running back into the secured area after being escorted out once.

Once he did that, like it or not, they (law enforcement) were under full discretion of the law to apply necessary force to remove the threat. I’m not saying it’s pretty, but the only one who actually broke a law was the passenger"

why do you think that is accurate? It has been reported that Dao was forcibly removed and injured.

Then several minutes later he ran back on the plane with a bloodied face.

How does that square with "The passenger was forcibly removed by federal aviation security after running back into the secured area after being escorted out once."

Para,

THAT'S THE PROBLEM! Im not taking it personally. Im (along with some others here) are trying to lend insight into a little piece of the universe we know a bit more about than others. There is a disconnect here. A disconnect between those who deal with "all" of this business every day, and those who catch a bit (no matter what that bit happens to be) every now and then from either social media or the press. Its no different in that respect to issues of firearms and crime which we here are all tuned into. We see THAT in a different frame of reference than your normal person on the street because we have much more connection and insight into it.

Frustrating? Definately.
Disappoiting? Absolutely.
Personally? Not one iota.

One thing my profession has taught me is to NOT take things personally. You get checked, obsereved and second-guessed almost every day on this job...from everyone. It teaches you to keep your eye on the big picture and shrug at the BS. Thats just part of the fun and you accept it. You accept criticism. You either put your big boy pants on and learn from it or you ignore it as bullshit.

As far as "just say it"... I guess Im confused there. Say what? That Im disappointed in how this thread has gone? That members here have chosen take pokes at one another without rebuke? Ive already said that. If youre waiting for a personal insult, you're not going to get one. I feel I can disagree with how something has been managed, voice that, and leave out any personal affront to you. There would be no reason for it, and it certainly wouldnt help the situation even if I could find a reason to do so.

So there you have it. Tomorrow has me across the country and then half way back again to get home. Lots of quality airport and airline time. I might even try to hop a ride in UAL...maybe there will be a few open seats for a non-rev to get...imagine that.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
1999

That was the last time I flew commercially. You couldn't get me on one of those fucking flying cattle cars even at gunpoint.

I feel the same way, and won't bother telling my own horror stories, all these stories with airlines are bad. flying used to be a real treat, not anymore, the airlines are run by morons, seriously.

Speaking of disappointments-

I'm disappointed that apparently we can't express our fury at this incident without being told that our behavior is shameful. I don't appreciate that one single bit. It's as if the members here who work for the airlines think that we are speaking to them personally.

Here I was thinking that we're talking about a corporate entity, when, in reality, we're just insulting our friends, and it's so very shameful.

Jesus

quote:

Originally posted by entropy:
Everyone is more than welcome to an opinion. But when that opinion turns into insulting other members, thier careers, and their professionalism its no longer an opinion...

I have nearly 10,000 posts and over 10 years on this board of yours. Quite frankly this thread is an embarassment, as are some of the responses.

Your toy, your sandbox. Do with me what you wish.

Have a nice evening.

I work in the auto industry, which takes a beating on this forum all the time. In fact back in 08 and 09 there were multiple threads cheering the demise of several manufacturers and lamenting the government saving others, and literally tens of thousands of jobs. I watched many many good people lose everything while many applauded, and like you I was amazed at the lack of understanding how things really work in the industry.

The very simple fact is United fucked up how they handled this. Really end of story. I fly a lot, and it's a pain in the ass every time. Yes people suck, truly they do. However airlines and government transportation employees treat these sucky people like shit, so these ignorant, selfish, assholes are now annoyed as well. Not a good mix. Understand that yes, we get this crew had to get somewhere. Also understand nobody on that plane gave a fuck and all had somewhere to be also, and paid money for the service of getting them to where they needed to be.

Where's the part about assaulting passengers?

Wow jljones, where did that come from? Let me quote some of his better moments in that "first look"

"We all know that to be cool, you gotta look cool"

"the real reason was aesthetics. Everyone on the design team agreed that it looked awesome".

"It never hurts to look a little sexy"

WTF?

It was an article better suited for Cosmopolitan than a gun rag.

You think it was great, I think it was shitty. My opinion. You got yours, I got mine.