quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:
Terrible wars have come-about from things such as this and even less.

I used to wonder why.

Now I think I begin to understand.

Little known fact: Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was denied boarding on a United flight the day before he was assassinated.

True story

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Little known fact: Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was denied boarding on a United flight the day before he was assassinated.

True story

Oh shit! ROTFLMAO. I needed a great laugh before bed and THIS is IT! Thanks Para! LOL

Didn't get to use his SkyMiles or nothin'.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Didn't get to use his SkyMiles or nothin'.

Lol, you're in top form tonight Para..

I really wish a lot of people watch the interview with United CEO Munoz:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM

Question about the passenger:

" Do you think he is at fault in any way ?"

Munoz: "No. He can't be. He was a paying passenger sitting in our aircraft and no one should be treated that way. Period."

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Didn't get to use his SkyMiles or nothin'.

Couldn't even donate 'em to Make A Wish either. Guess the only wish that was granted was that of Gavrilo Princip and his .380.

I wonder if future generations will reenact the Battle of United Flight 3411...

quote:

Originally posted by medic451:
I wonder if future generations will reenact the Battle of United Flight 3411...

It'll be either a board or video game. Book it! LOL

quote:

Originally posted by btgoanna:

quote:

Actually it is you and pretty much everyone else on this forum who miss the point. So here it is:

Unless you are willing to pay a lot more for your tickets you are not going to get anything better than what the industry currently provides.

Do you or anybody else on this thread think the airlines are not competitive? Do you think that if someone could offer a higher level of service at the same price that they wouldn't already be doing it?

Singapore Air , Emirates , etc do exactly this !

There absolutely is a market for treating passengers better- and these Airlines thrive doing it.

Add Alaska Airlines to the list too. There is a reason they have won the JD Powers service award 9 years in a row for full service carriers. The main routes I took (ANC to SEA, ANC to IAH, and IAH to LAX), they not only provided better service they did it for equal or less money. Culture plays a big part in customer service and a good culture doesn't make you overpriced.

Not only am I a high tier frequent flyer, I'm someone who moves every few years which usually means being in the hub for a different airline. Over the years, I have lived in the hub city for:

United Airlines 3x (1x after Continental merger)

American 2x

Delta 2x

Alaska 1x

Continental 1x

Southwest 1x

IMO, as far as customer service they rank:
Alaska > Southwest > Delta > Continental > United > American

In business travel, I do not have to take the cheapest flight (within reason) and I chose based on flight duration, frequent flyer status, and service. For personal travel, it's a combination of cost (not the #1 criteria either), flight duration, frequent flyer status, and service. All things being close to equal, I'm seated aboard Alaska or Delta before United.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

This was a mistake by United of not catching that the seats were needed prior to boarding. This guys boorish behavior was what made this news. He forced the cops into making this video fodder.

The doctor's "boorish" behavior and all this fuss is an indication that the public is disgusted with airlines in general. I provided a URL, but my memories may be more useful in understanding this conflict.

In the "old days", you would rarely fly. If you did fly, it was somewhat expensive and you would dress appropriately for the occasion, and it was an exciting pleasant experience.

In the the "old days", capitalists - which I am - could not figure out how to make money off of commercial air transportation. Airlines kept going insolvent. Capitalists then solved the problem of how to make commercial air transportation profitable. As a result, I don't want to fly on commercial air transportation. Offer me free tickets to DFW or CLL, and unless they're 1st class, I'll decline.

I can nearly actually empathize with the stresses placed upon airline personnel, but surely you can agree that something is wrong when a passenger was dragged off an airplane by police due to logistical errors by United Continental.

I don't recall ever saying or thinking "There should be a Federal law against this". But Federal laws can be changed, and since this is a bipartisan issue, I expect that Federal laws to be changed due to this incident.

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

That one always bothers me. It is much like a spicy, heavy greasy meal before going to bed.

And the "war" I had in mind was called: "The War of Jenkins' Ear"

We laughed in school when we had to study it, but this thread brought it back to me and ironically, it was no longer funny.

Men create rules and policy. When they begien to be an evil taskmaster, perhaps it is far past the time to reign them in without ill effect, but reign them in we must.

Man should rule the rule, not the other way around.

I bid all a good night, and clearer thinking tomorrow.

quote:

Little known fact: Austrian Archduke Franz Ferdinand was denied boarding on a United flight the day before he was assassinated.

True story

Yeah read that on the internet too. Shocking. Thanks for the history lesson on World War I.

I give up.

my parting comment (a repeat):

watch the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90jSUe_vdhM

Question about the passenger:

" Do you think he is at fault in any way ?"

Munoz: "No. He can't be. He was a paying passenger sitting in our aircraft and no one should be treated that way. Period."

*****************************
Fly-Sig:
"If you are asked to leave an aircraft and you refuse, law enforcement will be called"

Not any more at United under the conditions for this case. Do you listen to CEO Munoz at all?

quote:

Originally posted by Icabod:
Point of order. This wasn't "overbooking." The passengers had boarded the plane and were seated. The hatch was then closed. At this point 4 United employees arrive and need to be put on the plane.....

What really happened was United put its employees and money ahead of the passengers.

I think I have heard that reported as well. If so, United's demeanor was "we don't need a valid reason to kick you off the plane, we can do it just because we feel like it".

quote:

The doctor's "boorish" behavior and all this fuss is an indication that the public is disgusted with airlines in general. I provided a URL, but my memories may be more useful in understanding this conflict.

In the "old days", you would rarely fly. If you did fly, it was somewhat expensive and you would dress appropriately for the occasion, and it was an exciting pleasant experience.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Viewers of TCM may recall a John Wayne film called The High and the Mighty that shows how airline flight used to be. It provides an excellent visual example of flying commercial in 1953. It is a good movie and worth a look.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:...He chose the one option which guaranteed the police would be called. Then he chose the one option which guaranteed the police would physically remove him.

Correct and correct. And United chose the one option that would probably do the most damage to their reputation and future business.

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:...He chose the one option which guaranteed the police would be called. Then he chose the one option which guaranteed the police would physically remove him.

Correct and correct. And United chose the one option that would probably do the most damage to their reputation and future business.

The checks that will be written by the airline, and the airport police will be large.

For a bunch that seems to be worried to death about a "competitive economy", I wonder what writing a couple million dollar check will do for the airlines competitiveness?

The airline created the problem. And right now, I bet they wish they had rented a car, and made the four hour drive to Louisville, like the unwashed masses have to do when they can't get a flight.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

If it goes to court I think the airline will win without question. As to the police, I have no idea if they violated laws or policies.

I agree - UAL would win in the courts. They have "The Law" in their favor.

However, they lost big-time in the court of public opinion.

Munoz's comments (that the doctor "did nothing wrong") imply that UAL will NOT pursue this legally - I think now they are going to try for the cheapest pay-off they can get away with to make the doctor's lawyers settle and leave them alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:...He chose the one option which guaranteed the police would be called. Then he chose the one option which guaranteed the police would physically remove him.

Correct and correct. And United chose the one option that would probably do the most damage to their reputation and future business.

Calling the police was the wrong option? What would you have done?

I'm not Scoutmaster, but to name a few:
1. Not boarded the plane and handled this in the terminal
2. Kept going beyond $800 for volunteers. Somebody made the decision to stop at $800 and their ass should be thoroughly reamed.

One thing you don't see from the cockpit that frequent flyers see routinely is the high percentage of pissy flight attendant attitudes. I'm not going to do anything to get booted, but it's shocking how poorly people in the service industry treat their customers (especially United and American Airlines). Here is a good example, I had an aisle seat in premium economy and a flight attendant's wide ass repeatedly sits on my shoulder when bending over for the lower shelf of the drink cart. I put up the aisle arm rest and her wide ass hit the arm rest instead of my shoulder. First words out of her mouth was, "if you don't lower that arm rest I'll ask the captain to have you arrested when we land." Yep, the first words to a high tier frequent flyer were a threat. Like I said, I'm not going to do anything to get booted or arrested so I put down my arm rest and her wide ass got a soft landing on my shoulder again. When I landed at the airport, I called an executive I knew at the airline and shared the story along with her name. He passed it along to the right executive, but I have no idea what if anything resulted.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
I agree - UAL would win in the courts. They have "The Law" in their favor.

However, they lost big-time in the court of public opinion.

Munoz's comments (that the doctor "did nothing wrong") imply that UAL will NOT pursue this legally - I think now they are going to try for the cheapest pay-off they can get away with to make the doctor's lawyers settle and leave them alone.

I wouldn't be so sure that "the law is on their side" would give them a win. Civil courts are preponderance of evidence, and not without a reasonable doubt. The "law can be on their side", and they could lose big at trial. Juries are really funny beasts. All you have to do is get a few people on the jury that fly regularly, and UAL will get their asses handed to them in judgement. And UAL won't take that risk.

But, alas, they will pay out big to make this go away. A bunch of the responses aren't grounded in reality, but to say "the airlines won't lose" is delusional. At the best spoken by someone who knows nothing about civil suits. Hell, they may have to give up giving out that splash of coke and ice now to make up for. Increase bag fees to $2500 each. Plus, I heard that you will now have to have quarters to get in the lavatory.

UAL and the airport police had better get those check books out.