quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
NY Times

The article doesn't outright say he left agreeing to the $800 but he did after the offer was made and according to the article, the offer was increased to $1k.

During his first exit from the plane he said he was singled out because he was Chinese. He then reboarded the plane (article doesn't say how he got back on) and that's when he was muscled off.

What we do know, thanks to an internal investigation by United and a statement from their CEO, is that the passenger was not at fault:

quote:

Munoz said the problem resulted from a "system failure" that prevented employees from using "common sense" in the situation and that Dr. David Dao , whom security officers dragged by his hands, on his back, from the cabin before takeoff, was not at fault .

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

This actually wasn't a case of overbooking. The media got it wrong again.

The issue is United (and almost every other airline for that matter) in the never ending quest to fill all planes to capacity didn't allow for the possibility that they might need to shuttle their own people around for continuity of service.

EXACTLY!!!!!

"Overbooking" is selling 105 tickets for 100 seats. THIS CASE involved United throwing off paying customers so their staff could fly.

TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.


And, I get it - they needed to get that flight crew to St Louis for a flight the next day. However, of all the available options to accomplish this task (rental car, bus, chartered limo, tickets on another airline, buy a small business aircraft and fly that to St Louis ( ), re-assign the flight to another flight crew, etc etc etc), they picked THE WORST OPTION imaginable.

Yes, the airliner had the 'right' to eject passengers. That doesn't mean, as events have shown, that it was the RIGHT thing to do. Arguably, the doctor was 'breaking the law' by refusing to change seats. UAL just found out how expensive enforcing THAT law was.

Billions of dollars later, UAL just MIGHT figure out that taking care of your customers matters to us 'little people.' And the entire country just found out what UAL thinks about its customer base. The CEO had ONE opportunity to nip this in the bud (not that he had much chance of succeeding once that video got out), and he did the worst thing possible - he dismissed the brutality and plain ignorance of those involved in brutalizing a paying customer by his "we are sorry for the passengers that were reacommodated."

The internet is tearing UAL a new one.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
NY Times

The article doesn't outright say he left agreeing to the $800 but he did after the offer was made and according to the article, the offer was increased to $1k.

During his first exit from the plane he said he was singled out because he was Chinese. He then reboarded the plane (article doesn't say how he got back on) and that's when he was muscled off.

What we do know, thanks to an internal investigation by United and a statement from their CEO, is that the passenger was not at fault:

quote:

Munoz said the problem resulted from a "system failure" that prevented employees from using "common sense" in the situation and that Dr. David Dao , whom security officers dragged by his hands, on his back, from the cabin before takeoff, was not at fault .

Oh I'm not arguing against UA failing to use one iota of common sense. They messed up.

My point is that the doctor was removed, in a horrid way, after he went back on the plane. Once he left the plane the first time they screwed up by letting him back on. Did he run past the gate or wanted to get his luggage? I have no idea.

I think the article explains overbooking and the stats on how many were voluntary and involuntary removals in 2016.

No, check your ticket. It's in the contract. This information should prevent people from turning their backs on us in droves.

Oh, wait. that's not working. Huh. Go figure.

The cited NYT article above does not say the Dr accepted the offer, then reboarded.

The Dr was knocked out , dragged off the plane, and then 10 minutes later he somehow got back on and ran to the back of the plane.


Other passengers were then removed form the plane while they tended ot the doctor and took him off on a stretcher

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:

My point is that the doctor was removed, in a horrid way, after he went back on the plane.

The NY Times article you linked doesn't say that at all. It says the Dr. was on the plane, randomly selected to lose his seat, and forcibly removed when be refused. It never says he accepted any offer. He got back on the plane after he was forcibly removed as evidenced by his bloodied face in the videos from his second boarding.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
My point is that the doctor was removed, in a horrid way, after he went back on the plane.

OK, do we need a Notary? I am officially certifying that your point has been noted, even though it makes no difference whatsoever in this incident.

{stamp, stamp, shuffle, collate, stamp again for good measure}

OK? Noted, officially and thoroughly. Here's 27 copies for your files.

Anything else?

2700 posts and you still can't see the freight train you've placed yourself in front of.

Perhaps I'm being to subtle. Is that it? Too subtle?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
No, check your ticket. It's in the contract. This information should prevent people from turning their backs on us in droves.

Oh, wait. that's not working. Huh. Go figure.

Well it all hinges on the definition of "board". Most people believe when their butt is in the seat shown their "boarding pass", they have boarded the aircraft. UAL clearly feels they can denying "boarding" at anytime up until they deboard you. What's next? Reaccommedating passengers by involuntarily deboarding them at 35,000 feet?

quote:

Originally posted by irreverent:
I still haven't understood why all airlines don't board starting from the back like they used to, it's pretty obvious you're full then, AND, you don't have people struggling to get past you to get at their seat, while you're fucking around trying to ram your carry on into the overhead bin.

Would work if the baggage policies hadn't led to everyone dragging on a bag ranging from small to steamer trunk, and if the preferred seats weren't at the front. You have to board by Priority/preference in order to cater to your regular customers.

Of course the real issue here has nothing to do with how they board, it's the ridiculous overbooking and subsequent cluster that creates.

quote:

{from another poster) When you are requested to deplane, for whatever the reason, the CAPTAIN has become involved at some level. Even if its an overbook situation, he is advised. It is HIS airplane. HE is responsible for it. Once you say "No" you are then interfering with a flight crew member...which is a felony. 49 USC 46504 to be exact.

That may be true, but it does not make you God over all things regardless of degree of importance, for you to rule from your little cabin on your shitty-service airline's plane that is overbooked because of the airlines policies.

Elitism is elitism no matter what label you try to place on it.

(American culture doesn't often honor elitism. Yea - some might worship at it's altar, but not I.)

apparently United stepped in it again...looking for an article I read yesterday when this was a locked thread

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
No, check your ticket. It's in the contract. This information should prevent people from turning their backs on us in droves.

Oh, wait. that's not working. Huh. Go figure.

Well it all hinges on the definition of "board". Most people believe when their butt is in the seat shown their "boarding pass", they have boarded the aircraft. UAL clearly feels they can denying "boarding" at anytime up until they deboard you. What's next? Reaccommedating passengers by involuntarily deboarding them at 35,000 feet?

Dude. Seriously. Duuuude...

When I ask to buy a ticket to go from a to b, on date x, at time y and an airline sells me a ticket, we have an agreement.

Any airline coming in and saying, you know what? No, we're not going to do this. Oh, we'll get you there, but it won't be at the agreed time and date. It will be at a time and date of our choosing. Yes, we understand you abided by all the rules we put in place, but we're going to point to the fine print that says 'you're fucked' and there's nothing you can do about it. Bullshit.

Gosh, all that talk about contracts and the interpretations thereof is turning out to mean absolutely nothing.

It's a puzzler, ain't it?

Lasting Damage

And then, there's this:

Complicity of Fucking Twitter

Para don't fly commercial and Para don't tweet, and all of this demonstrates why this is so.

Haha, that Darth Vader meme is my favorite so far.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Gosh, all that talk about contracts and the interpretations thereof is turning out to mean absolutely nothing.

It's a puzzler, ain't it?

Lasting Damage

It seems like every time United has had a chance to mitigate some of the damage, they just put another foot in their mouth.

Yeah, they've re-accommodated the fuck out of this

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

{from another poster) When you are requested to deplane, for whatever the reason, the CAPTAIN has become involved at some level. Even if its an overbook situation, he is advised. It is HIS airplane. HE is responsible for it. Once you say "No" you are then interfering with a flight crew member...which is a felony. 49 USC 46504 to be exact.

That may be true, but it does not make you God over all things regardless of degree of importance, for you to rule from your little cabin on your shitty-service airline's plane that is overbooked because of the airlines policies.

a) Just because you *can* doesn't mean you *should*. The flight crew handled this the wrong way; regardless of what their 'authority' stated.

b) This wasn't an 'over-booked' flight. It was one that was properly booked (once everybody had boarded - I don't know if people were bumped prior to boarding when most 'over-booking' errors are corrected), and United decided to throw off and inconvenience PAYING CUSTOMERS in order to accommodate their own staff. Hey, screw the customer - our needs come before yours. UAL doesn't care about inconveniencing customers. At least, this is how the country (and maybe the world - millions of Chinese are PO'd over this, as well) sees it.

c) CEO then goes and throws gasoline on the fire, and tells a clearly angry public he was sorry for those that were 're-accommodated.' That fancy euphemism didn't go over very well with the public, resulting in even MORE hate towards UAL.


But go ahead and talk about the 'rights' and 'laws' the pilot and flight crew has. It sounds like the royal guy in Braveheart trying to justify his prima nocta 'rights' just before Mel Gibson kills him. . .

Second United Airlines passenger threatened with handcuffs to give seat up for 'more important' flyer

Late to the game as always, I'll throw up my 2¢, which is repeating what others have said:

The "manager" should have steadily increased the reward amount to de-plane. At around $2,000 plus rebooked flight plus hotel, they'd be getting some serious room on that jet.

If they know they need employees elsewhere, DON'T LET PEOPLE BOARD.

I always travel with a carry-on only, and my comfort level to change plans is $800-$1200.