Can someone tell me what the black circles with white letters inside the cone mean? I see M and S in this image:

The weather man guessing? Mmmmms.... It will track here

quote:

Originally posted by 4x5:
Can someone tell me what the black circles with white letters inside the cone mean? I see M and S in this image:

It is the intensity forecast. The legend is under the map where it says "Forecast Positions" S= Tropical storm (39-73mph wind speeds), H is Hurricane (Cat 1-2 - 74-110MPH) and M is Major Hurricane (Cat 3-5 - winds in excess of 110)

I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

It seems like no brainer, but then, I see absolutely no other buildings with them, which makes me think the idea is over the top.

Opinions welcome. I wonder what kind of wind speeds it generally takes to make residential windows fail.

quote:

Originally posted by Delmag Tech:
I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

It seems like no brainer, but then, I see absolutely no other buildings with them, which makes me think the idea is over the top.

Opinions welcome. I wonder what kind of wind speeds it generally takes to make residential windows fail.

I would at least buy the wood now. I wouldn't use nails or traditional screws. I would use the hex head screws with a washer. The washer should keep the head from sinking into the wood so you don't have a bitch of a time removing them afterwards.

quote:

I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

It seems like no brainer, but then, I see absolutely no other buildings with them, which makes me think the idea is over the top.

Opinions welcome. I wonder what kind of wind speeds it generally takes to make residential windows fail.

It is not the wind speed. It is stuff like limbs blowing into windows. Locally, we drive by and see if the local weather meterologist has boarded up and do the same. It is generally prudent to do so. You cut and label them and put them is storage for the next time. Since we got hit directly by Camille and Katrina plus others, folks put them up when we are under a Hurricane Watch. The size and direction the windows are facing is another consideration. Garage doors should have special bracing.

quote:

Originally posted by Delmag Tech:
I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

Do it.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Question re liquid propane tank....I have a 1000 gallon LP tank buried in my yard that supplies the hot water heater, stove, grill, etc. It also supplies my 20kw standby generator. Should I shut off the main gas valve before the storm? It makes sense but then I lose my generator (AC, refrigerator, lights, etc).

Not an expert, but I would just prior to the weather getting really sketchy, and when I have everything charged up.

Best case scenario you can turn back on after worst passes and be up and running. If it won't work then, having it leaking after damage wasn't going to help. Worst case scenario you don't, and line get cut/damaged and things go boom?

Of course, if that possibility is remote I'd leave it on to want Cantore in his batters helmet while drinking cold beer!

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Originally posted by parabellum:
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8FgCLilQkJw" width="420"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Don't know if I should laugh or cry. But I did swallow my mt dew before I hit the play button, so at least I don't have to clean my keyboard again.

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Question re liquid propane tank....I have a 1000 gallon LP tank buried in my yard that supplies the hot water heater, stove, grill, etc. It also supplies my 20kw standby generator. Should I shut off the main gas valve before the storm? It makes sense but then I lose my generator (AC, refrigerator, lights, etc)

Good question. Are you subject to flooding or storm surge in your location? I am not sure, I do know that most people do not shut off gas to their water heaters if they stay in the house. If they leave they usually turn it off.

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Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Question re liquid propane tank....I have a 1000 gallon LP tank buried in my yard that supplies the hot water heater, stove, grill, etc. It also supplies my 20kw standby generator. Should I shut off the main gas valve before the storm? It makes sense but then I lose my generator (AC, refrigerator, lights, etc).

Depends on where you're located. If you expect to take the brunt of the storm it's a no-brainer (IMO): Shut it off.

Ok: You'll have to endure the no AC. The fridge should be fine for a short while. Lights? Flashlights, lanterns.

If you survive the first pass and find yourself in the eye, you should have a short while in which you can turn things back on. Get some AC relief. Re-cool the fridge. Then turn it back off.

Thing is: You don't want that propane to possibly add to the damage.

quote:

Originally posted by Delmag Tech:
I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

It seems like no brainer, but then, I see absolutely no other buildings with them, which makes me think the idea is over the top.

Opinions welcome. I wonder what kind of wind speeds it generally takes to make residential windows fail.

In years gone by, I used to do that, especially on the sliding patio doors. A construction contractor laughed at me and told me I was pissing in the wind. He said that if something is blowing hard enough to damage the plate glass, a piece of plywood isn't going to help.

Also, my sliding doors are on the west side of the house; the most vicious winds are from the northeast. We have no windows at all on the north side of our house, and just three fairly small ones on the east side.

So, I no longer bother with plywood. It might come back to bite me in the ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Delmag Tech:
I'm trying to decide whether I should buy plywood and make myself some storm shutters this weekend here in Jacksonville.

It seems like no brainer, but then, I see absolutely no other buildings with them, which makes me think the idea is over the top.

Opinions welcome. I wonder what kind of wind speeds it generally takes to make residential windows fail.

The real question is what the windows are designed to handle. Depending on exactly where and when your house was built, the Building Code could have required windows that have a design pressure rating of 30psf to 50psf (possibly higher).

There have been changes to the design criteria over the course of the various building code editions and some have raised the windload requirement significantly.

The wind speed is only 1 of 6 variables that go into calculating the structural design load due to wind. the other 5 are Area (of the window), Average Roof height, Exposure Category, Roof Slope, and Importance factor (Risk category wind map to be used in newer codes).

For the Jacksonville area, the current basic design wind speed for Risk category 2 (Residential Housing) is 130-140 mph.

3/4" plywood will meet the basic large D-missile impact requirement (9# 2x4 going 34 mph (50 ft/sec)

1/2" Polycarbonate will meet the large E-Missile (9# 2x4 going 55mph (80ft/sec) it is also likely to stop higher speed and weight missiles since it is used for Tornado windows. (I design and build these things for a living)

Both of these assume they are anchored appropriately.

If the roof comes off, all bets are off.

Ken

Well, the neighbors might laugh at me, but I'm going to purchase this evening, and then I've got all weekend to make some really nice removable ones. The hell with it. I have 4 windows that face the east. Two are bedrooms and two are garage.

I also have 3 sliders on the west side. I think those will be a little more challenging to build a nice, bolt-in frame with 3/4" sheeting.

Thanks all for the bump in my decision.

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Originally posted by V-Tail:
In years gone by, I used to do that, especially on the sliding patio doors. A construction contractor laughed at me and told me I was pissing in the wind. He said that if something is blowing hard enough to damage the plate glass, a piece of plywood isn't going to help.

That's nonsensical.

If it takes a given amount of force to damage the plate glass, that same force first encountering the plywood would necessarily be reduced. I would have just laughed back and replied "Spoken like somebody who truly doesn't understand physics."

(Unless he was my construction contractor, in which case I would have nodded in agreement and later continued doing what I'd been doing.)

I rented a house for awhile that had some great removable metal shutters and every external door and window had preinstalled posts to mount them on. It was a really slick setup, I'm sure it wasn't too cheap either but the shutters stacked up nicely in the garage.

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Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:
In years gone by, I used to do that, especially on the sliding patio doors. A construction contractor laughed at me and told me I was pissing in the wind. He said that if something is blowing hard enough to damage the plate glass, a piece of plywood isn't going to help.

That's nonsensical.

If it takes a given amount of force to damage the plate glass, that same force first encountering the plywood would necessarily be reduced. I would have just laughed back and replied "Spoken like somebody who truly doesn't understand physics."

(Unless he was my construction contractor, in which case I would have nodded in agreement and later continued doing what I'd been doing.)

Yeah, Joe construction contractor is where I get my physics assessments.

Kinda like getting gun advice in a gun store - seems logical until you listen to what they are actually saying.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Question re liquid propane tank....I have a 1000 gallon LP tank buried in my yard that supplies the hot water heater, stove, grill, etc. It also supplies my 20kw standby generator. Should I shut off the main gas valve before the storm? It makes sense but then I lose my generator (AC, refrigerator, lights, etc).

Not an expert, but I would just prior to the weather getting really sketchy, and when I have everything charged up.

Best case scenario you can turn back on after worst passes and be up and running. If it won't work then, having it leaking after damage wasn't going to help. Worst case scenario you don't, and line get cut/damaged and things go boom?

Of course, if that possibility is remote I'd leave it on to want Cantore in his batters helmet while drinking cold beer!

I agree. Having a leak occur when/if the shit hits the fan is combining bad with worse. Imagine having to go out there and turn it off with debris flying about or worse. Assume you might be out for a few hour period to 24hrs, plan and act accordingly, and turn it off as close to the last minute as you're comfortable doing, since turning it back on is easy... no real risk of being wrong/too careful. False alarm, turn it back on.

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Originally posted by 46and2:

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Question re liquid propane tank....I have a 1000 gallon LP tank buried in my yard that supplies the hot water heater, stove, grill, etc. It also supplies my 20kw standby generator. Should I shut off the main gas valve before the storm? It makes sense but then I lose my generator (AC, refrigerator, lights, etc).

Not an expert, but I would just prior to the weather getting really sketchy, and when I have everything charged up.

Best case scenario you can turn back on after worst passes and be up and running. If it won't work then, having it leaking after damage wasn't going to help. Worst case scenario you don't, and line get cut/damaged and things go boom?

Of course, if that possibility is remote I'd leave it on to want Cantore in his batters helmet while drinking cold beer!

I agree. Having a leak occur when/if the shit hits the fan is combining bad with worse. Imagine having to go out there and turn it off with debris flying about or worse. Assume you might be out for a few hour period to 24hrs, plan and act accordingly, and turn it off as close to the last minute as you're comfortable doing, since turning it back on is easy... no real risk of being wrong/too careful. False alarm, turn it back on.

If I turn it off, can I just turn it back on after the storm. The gas company website makes it sound like I need to have the system and the lines checked by a professional prior to re-opening the main shutoff. Is that for real or is that CYA stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by KenS:

The real question is what the windows are designed to handle. Depending on exactly where and when your house was built, the Building Code could have required windows that have a design pressure rating of 30psf to 50psf (possibly higher).

There have been changes to the design criteria over the course of the various building code editions and some have raised the windload requirement significantly.


1/2" Polycarbonate will meet the large E-Missile (9# 2x4 going 55mph (80ft/sec) it is also likely to stop higher speed and weight missiles since it is used for Tornado windows. (I design and build these things for a living)

Both of these assume they are anchored appropriately.

If the roof comes off, all bets are off.

Ken

Thanks for that information, Ken. I'll build the frames such that I can swap the 3/4 with polycarbonate another time without a total redo.

My house is a ranch, concrete block (finished with stucco) construction with wooden trusses fairly well attached. Better than most houses built in '74, according to the inspector that helped me when I bought the place. The windows have been replaced, I'm going to guess 10 years ago. They're you're basic white vinyl, double hung, double pane.

I intend to use a hammer drill to put concrete anchors in. 5/16" or 3/8", I figure. Hopefully I can find the type that use a nut-sert as opposed to a stud sticking out, to aid in removal/replacement. That might be a tall order for a Home Depot at this stage of the game though.