quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

The situations are a little different. In the Bud Light case, that was an open marketing decision. When it backfired, they refused to admit they did anything wrong.

In the case with Liberty, they were doing this underhanded crap behind the scenes and were caught. Like a bad boy getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar, they now say oh, so sorry, won't do it again. You can trust us.

This wasn't a bad marketing play that misjudged their customer base. This was way worse. This was a company deliberately backstabbing their customers while no one was paying attention.

And to add onto balze, it’s a gun safe manufacturer. The bar is way higher for their conduct. Their customers aren’t a wide swath of America. It is guys/gals like us.

A Makita safe-opener-upper gadget?

Looks like the heat helps - a change of pace:

Also, this whole shit show of throwing people in prison for taking an unguided tour of the capital should not get cooperation from any entity in our country. Warrant or no.

Despite what words they choose to say to get us to forgive them they already showed their true colors by actions. No pr releases or apologies should erase that.

quote:

You can change your codes or have mechanical locks installed but it's only a deterrent to smash and grab thieves. Big time criminals (like the gov) that can take their time can get into your safe with or without a combo.

Perhaps, but that has nothing to do with the problem here, a gun safe company volunteering safe access codes to the FBI without a direct order from a court.

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

How you can compare the two situations is beyond me.

It's one thing for a beer company (which caters to a wide swath of the population) to put some mentally ill prancer on display with their product.

It is something else entirely for a company whose product is gun safes to fold like cheap lawn furniture when the thuggish feds make demands of them, and in the process, they betray a specific customer by revealing information they knew would be used against that customer, and all of this when they had no legal obligation or right to do so.

Now, you must be joking. You need this explained to you?

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The FBI had possession of the safe and a warrant to open the safe.
Without the services from Liberty, they had other options that would cause damage to the safe. One way or the other, they are getting inside.
The truth is that many of us could also get inside that thing, doing a little damage on the way in.
This will play out in court. If the warrants weren't legal, the evidence obtained won't be legal. The guy gets his safe back intact.
There are plenty of things done by government and/or companies I don't agree with. This isn't one of them unless there's a lot more to the story.

You're saying that the FBI removed the safe from the guy's residence. Got a link? I can imagine they'd do that unless it was a REALLY small safe. Generally gun safes can easily weigh a couple thousand pounds...Empty! Call me skeptical, but I doubt they moved it one inch if it was a full size safe!

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

It has nothing to do with the speed of an apology or, acknowledging they were in error. Anybody can foist out an apology statement, that's why you hire a PR firm, to spit-out a multi-paragraph word salad. The issue is a mindset from within, that allowed them to come to a decision, to willfully violate a customer's trust in their product, in order to accommodate a government body, who has a questionable record of trust amongst the citizenry.

This isn't a beer company, a super-cooler brand or, a knife maker, but, a company that makes a product where you put your valuables inside, to keep secured and away from others. The irony and their actions is remarkable.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

The situations are a little different. In the Bud Light case, that was an open marketing decision. When it backfired, they refused to admit they did anything wrong.

In the case with Liberty, they were doing this underhanded crap behind the scenes and were caught. Like a bad boy getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar, they now say oh, so sorry, won't do it again. You can trust us.

This wasn't a bad marketing play that misjudged their customer base. This was way worse. This was a company deliberately backstabbing their customers while no one was paying attention.

I'm slightly less concerned about the "underhanded" nature of this now that it's been revealed that what Liberty gave the feds was just the original factory code (if we believe their latest missive). I still think they shouldn't have done it, but I look at it more as a poor decision based on their business model as a security company than as something underhanded like maintaining back-door combinations.

Has anyone actually seen this warrant? I cant find anything online. Do we really know how it was worded and to whom it was directed? So far all I have is various people on social media making claims.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
The FBI had possession of the safe and a warrant to open the safe.
Without the services from Liberty, they had other options that would cause damage to the safe. One way or the other, they are getting inside.
The truth is that many of us could also get inside that thing, doing a little damage on the way in.
This will play out in court. If the warrants weren't legal, the evidence obtained won't be legal. The guy gets his safe back intact.
There are plenty of things done by government and/or companies I don't agree with. This isn't one of them unless there's a lot more to the story.

You're saying that the FBI removed the safe from the guy's residence. Got a link? I can imagine they'd do that unless it was a REALLY small safe. Generally gun safes can easily weigh a couple thousand pounds...Empty! Call me skeptical, but I doubt they moved it one inch if it was a full size safe!

The fbi didn't take the safe. In the video Nathan Huges posted on Twitter, he clearly says that when he got home he found his safe open. It never left the house.

quote:

Originally posted by gpbst3:
Has anyone actually seen this warrant? I cant find anything online. Do we really know how it was worded and to whom it was directed? So far all I have is various people on social media making claims.

Who cares? It wasn't directed at Liberty Safes. We know that much.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
Also, this whole shit show of throwing people in prison for taking an unguided tour of the capital should not get cooperation from any entity in our country. Warrant or no.

This gets lost in this safe thing. The fuckin' Eff Bee Eye raiding and arresting a guy who was at the Capitol on Jan. 6th, arresting him nearly 3 years later. After Trump's indictment.

And in this video, look at how many agents it takes to deal with Nathan Hughes and his wife . These are the guys who Liberty gladly assisted.


https://twitter.com/CollinRugg...rk_with_the_fbi.html

The fact that Liberty is the property of some lefty NYC libertard investment capital company is even more disturbing and distressing than the egregious act itself. It's as if one has to generate a white list of politically-aligned companies before you can safely "buy American", and even then with these corporate shenanigan buyouts who says that even this will guarantee safety of one's information in the future? It's as if it actually legitimizes buying Chinese (I'm only kidding. KIDD-ING. Well, sort of...)

I feel real sorrow for the folks in Utah who put their blood and sweat into making Liberty Safe into what it was prior to Monomoy taking over. They really did make some of the best safes around, as long as you stayed away from the mediocre big box drivel at Cabelas and Bass Pro. For some years now I wondered why Liberty put their name on that insulated sheet metal tripe.

I'm not buying any safe when the dial only turns left. F that!

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by Flashlightboy:
Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

How you can compare the two situations is beyond me.

It's one thing for a beer company (which caters to a wide swath of the population) to put some mentally ill prancer on display with their product.

It is something else entirely for a company whose product is gun safes to fold like cheap lawn furniture when the thuggish feds make demands of them, and in the process, they betray a specific customer by revealing information they knew would be used against that customer, and all of this when they had no legal obligation or right to do so.

Now, you must be joking. You need this explained to you?

You're so jaded that a gun accessory company would do this to a gun owner, and by extension to all gun owners, that you don't want to see the parallels with Bud Light.

Bud Light fucked over their customer base. Whether it was with the sick dude or something else, they catered to the 1% and didn't consider how it would affect their other customers. The #1 selling beer in the US and they pissed on their base to appease a small group.

Liberty markets to the entire gun community. It's not different than Bud. Beer drinkers v. gun owners. There's no intellectual difference.

Two things stand out: Have they done this before and is this the first time we've heard about it? I expect that if other safe owners have had this happen to them we'll hear about it soon enough. We don't know and no one knows except for Liberty and safe owners. Until then it's pure speculation and conjecture.

The second is if this is truly the first time, Liberty took corrective action within hours and their solution fixes the problem. It should have been in place already but it's there now. Bud just continued to be woke, never apologized or did anything else beyond continuing to do the same stupid shit and still does, hoping to ride out the storm.

Will you be less torqued at Liberty if this was a one time event?

The one tempering fact is that the safe owner, IIRC, said the FBI had a warrant and was entitled to search the safe. It's not as though the FBI cold called Liberty and said, "Hey, can you do us a warrantless favor?"

I'm not keeping track of who has replied to this thread but have any LEO members that pissed on Liberty over this? I'd be curious to know if the safe owner preferred to have his safe potentially ruined or would he like it still intact and usable after the FBI left? I'm pretty sure he wanted it intact and his bitching, however well-meant, didn't include a follow up from him on whether the safe is still OK to use.

We only have two sources of info for this story: the short 90 second video from the gun owner and the press releases from Liberty. The rest of the story are the details that matter.

quote:

Originally posted by sse:

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

There you go, leftist infestation.

It figures

Oh, Jesus, at least you're consistent. You didn't see the difference and you still don't see the difference.

And I don't know how many times in this thread that it's been explained that the warrant was not being served to Liberty Safe. Explaining it again won't matter.

quote:

Will you be less torqued at Liberty if this was a one time event?

Man, you just do not get it. Once is all it takes, because if they thought it was OK to do once, they think it would be OK to do again, if there was no push-back against it. It's their lack of a moral foundation that's in play, and not how they react when they upset their customers. Hello?

quote:

Liberty markets to the entire gun community. It's not different than Bud. Beer drinkers v. gun owners. There's no intellectual difference

You

are

missing

the

point.

It's the nature of the offense which is the difference.

I am gobsmacked that some of you need this explained.

Do all electronic safe locks have mfgr backdoor passwords that cannot be cleansed by a buyer?
If yes, another good reason my first "real" safe will have a dial lock. Yeah, they might still "come & take it", but they'll at least have to make an effort to get in it.

I AM glad I didn't buy from these guys.
I hope to be able to spend the $$ on at least some AMSEC dial lock in the future.