I have more than a smidgen of experience with warrants. Tech companies won't even respond to a subpoena let alone a call from LEO. They require a warrant/court order directed to them with specificity. My state has judges on call 24/7-365 just to approve (or deny which happens regularly) warrants. I'm surprised the FBI just didn't get a warrant first.

quote:

Originally posted by BB61:
I'm surprised the FBI just didn't get a warrant first.

I'm surprised they didn't shoot him.

I'm wondering what the FBI told them. Urgency? Strong request? Long standing policy of doing this and this is the one incident that got headlines?

On the other hand, if the search warrant allowed the FBI to forcibly open the safe and they called Liberty and said they only wanted to see the contents and they had no desire to destroy the safe, that puts Liberty in a little better light.

From family members who execute warrants, at times the option is given for the suspect to open the draw, safe, front door to the business, filing cabinet but giving up the keys or combination or whatever with the clear alternative that it will be otherwise destroyed. They only want to look at the contents and not destroy the item.

Seized safes are usually transported to the agency, a trusted locksmith brought in and if that doesn't work, the Fire Department likes to cut off hinges with their saw and get in practice with the jaws of life and all the attachments.

Liberty missed a golden opportunity to tell the American Stasi to fook right off. Sure, the FBI would still have gotten into the safe. But Liberty's conscience would be clear and they'd not lose a single customer over it, and probably would have seen a boost in sales. Now they're dead. It's all over but the shouting. And the American Stasi has still gotten into the safe.

All the more reason for a manual dial as I do than an electronic one (no master unlock code)

Yup, this is all bullshit. I wouldn't have a Liberty safe now if they gave me one. Bud Lite rewind.

I have a Browning Pro Steel I bought back in the 1980's. It's a mechanical lock (S&G) that I am seriously considering having re-set.

quote:

Originally posted by monoblok:
A shame. They make made some really, really good safes.

It's going to take a long, LONG time, if ever, for the gun world to forget this egregious misstep.

If you mean NEVER, then yeah, a long time it'll be!

Consider that Anheuser Busch was basically ridiculing and dismissive of their customer base, and that Benchmade was basically cooperating as agents (tools?) of the Police to destroy firearms in their possession, In this case Liberty was essentially turning a customer's firearms/property over to the FBI, when their entire mission as a company is to provide security for their customer's property...IMO this outright betrayal is MUCH worse, like AT LEAST an order of magnitude worse! I would not be surprised to see Liberty go out of business over this...At the very least they are DONE as a manufacturer of gun safes!

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:
Yup, this is all bullshit. I wouldn't have a Liberty safe now if they gave me one. Bud Lite rewind.

Given their new found political donation history, they have become the new Black Rifle Coffee.

They're getting roasted on Twitter. Deservedly so. Backstabbin' sumnabitches.

If anybody is concerned to the point that they want to have their combinations changed or locks replaced and needs somebody to do it, this is the order I would go in:

First, do a tech search by location on SAVTA or Clearstar:

http://www.savta.org/savta_tech.php

https://www.clearstar.com/yellform.htm


Not all of those who work on safes are members of either/both of these organizations. If nobody nearby is listed by either then I would look for anybody listed as a locksmith on google or yellowpages with "safe" in their name, or ask your local bank or jeweler who they use to work on their equipment.

Does this guy have a legal case against liberty for providing the code without a warrant?

quote:

Originally posted by Shaql:
Does this guy have a legal case against liberty for providing the code without a warrant?

That's a good question.
What is the duty of confidentiality to the customer?

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:

There you go, leftist infestation.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Effective immediately, existing customers can visit (yaddayadda) and fill out the form to have records of their access codes expunged.

Oh, now their going to offer this up, huh?

They've got some real deep thinkers at "Liberty".

Where I grew up, we call this 'Closing the barn door after the horse has bolted.'

Ayup. This is a reasonable, logical, policy. (Better imho would be to initially retain the codes for some short period of time, then if the customer doesn’t register the safe and request the codes be saved, dispose of them. Ie, default to not saving the codes.) If they had started with this, they wouldn’t have “bub light”ed themselves. Coming to this reasonably correct approach after the fact? Nah, just get your resumes in order.

The FBI had possession of the safe and a warrant to open the safe.
Without the services from Liberty, they had other options that would cause damage to the safe. One way or the other, they are getting inside.
The truth is that many of us could also get inside that thing, doing a little damage on the way in.
This will play out in court. If the warrants weren't legal, the evidence obtained won't be legal. The guy gets his safe back intact.
There are plenty of things done by government and/or companies I don't agree with. This isn't one of them unless there's a lot more to the story.

Maybe I'm a bit naive but when Bud Light went woke, didn't a lot of us here, and elsewhere, say they'd go a long way towards building customer trust with a few immediate corrective actions but they were roasted for doing none of them? Yes, that's what happened.

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem and they should have already had it in place to have avoided the issue. The response here was that they need to be on the cancel culture train.

They promptly did a course correction, weren't wishy washy about it and now it's an eternal sign of fallibility?

You can change your codes or have mechanical locks installed but it's only a deterrent to smash and grab thieves. Big time criminals (like the gov) that can take their time can get into your safe with or without a combo.

quote:

Within hours of the Liberty story, they put in place two things that will fully address the problem

Did they admit they made the wrong call, and apologize? That's what I recall as one of the primary post-Mulvaney demands made of Bud Light.

We've seen the FBI get plenty of warrants via flimsy or outright false warrant affidavits and no one was ever held to account for it. Hell, the judges who were lied to didn't even seem to care. I have zero faith in anything they do. I always assume the FBI will do whatever it wants and find some cover story for how it's legal or court-sanctioned. The outrage is that a 2A-related company would voluntarily lift a finger to help them.