Most regular forum members know that it has become necessary to carefully screen all registration attempts for the forum. Primarily, this is to keep out scammers, with which we have had ever-increasing problems.

All registration attempts display an IP address. If, when I trace this IP address, it shows as coming from an anonymizing VPN, or from certain locations outside of the United States, these registrations are deleted.

Though it was not my original intent, I do see from time to time, registration attempts coming from government networks- all sorts of agencies. These registrations are, as a matter of routine, deleted. I imagine most of these registration attempts are from individuals simply wanting to access the forum, but because there is no way for me to know the intent of these attempts, I delete them. I imagine most of those people understand in the aftermath why they didn't get through, and on occasion, I see the same username registering that evening or some time after, from their home network, or their phone provider's network, and these registrations are always approved.

A couple of days ago, I received one of these registrations from the network of the Department of Homeland Security. The chosen username lead me to believe that this was perhaps a Border Patrol Agent. Now, when I delete these attempts, I never get an email asking me why they weren't approved; that is, until this week.

I received an email inquiring about difficulty registering, and since the email was polite, and since I had thought perhaps this was a Border Patrol agent attempting to register, I responded. Though I was under no obligation to explain or respond at all, I did so. In the email exchange posted below, you will see that I attempted to ascertain intent. In return, I was threatened with him "spreading the word" to all his colleagues and to other "gun blogs"'

Like most men, I do not take kindly to being threatened, so I told him that I would be happy to publish this email exchange. All he had to do was say the word. I made it clear- or thought I had made it clear- that should I do this, I would omit this person's personal information but you will see that I had difficulty getting this through to him.

More than once in this exchange, this guy has said "this is my last email" but it's not true. He just keeps emailing me, so, this is why you see the following. All personal information- name and email address of this person, has been redacted.

In addition to taking the time to read this exchange, I would like for anyone who cares to comment on what you're about to read, to tell us the following: What is SIGforum's official position on law enforcement and what do you find to be my personal position on law enforcement?


_____________



>>>> Hello
>>>>
>>>> I am having problems with the email verification process. Can you
>>>> please help with this. I am trying to join as (redacted).
>>>>
>>>> (redacted)
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy A51.

_______________


>>>> From: (redacted)@sigforum.com <(redacted)@sigforum.com>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 2, 2022 2:24:57 PM
>>>> To: (redacted)@hotmail.com <(redacted)@hotmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: Email Confirmation
>>>>
>>>> (redacted),
>>>> I nuked your registration. You were connecting to us via the DHS
>>>> network. I am not inclined to approve any such registrations.
>>>> Tell me something- in what capacity are you employed by the DHS?
>>>> Depending upon your answer, I may let you in. If you find this off-putting, I am
>>>> sorry, but these days I am wary of any registrants coming to us via any Federal network.
>>>>
>>>> The username you chose leads me to believe you're one of the good
>>>> guys, but I do need a bit more information.

_______________


>>>> I am sorry to bother you but I thought your site was inclusive for Sig
>>>> owners and did not realize certain people were denied access. I was
>>>> signing up during my free time and was not part of any special
>>>> operation. My position has nothing to do with your site as I am merely wanting to
>>>> connect with other Sig enthusiasts to talk about Sig products which I
>>>> currently own several types. I am sorry my so called position makes
>>>> you feel threatened Is this rule inclusive for this site or is other gun
>>>> forums also controlled by you? I would like to know so I can pass this
>>>> information to all my friends and coworkers and associates who work in
>>>> the same field as I am. I will also be sure to pass this information to
>>>> other gun blog sites.

_______________


>>> From: (redacted)@sigforum.com <(redacted)@sigforum.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 12:55:20 PM
>>> To: (redacted). <(redacted)@hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: Email Confirmation
>>>
>>> Well, how about this, (redacted)? How about if I publish this email exchange
>>> in my forum? Say the word and it shall be done. You have my word on it. I
>>> have nothing to hide.
>>>
>>> If you didn't wish for your registration attempt to be associated with
>>> your employer, then why did you attempt to register while on the DHS
>>> network? Do you normally use your employer's network for personal
>>> business? After all, you said you were doing this during your "free
>>> time".
>>>
>>> You behave as if Americans- especially gun owners- have nothing to fear
>>> from the government. You behave as if forum administrators should think
>>> nothing of it when they see a registration coming in from a network
>>> operated by the Federal government. I responded to you and explained
>>> the situation, even apologizing and telling you that your chosen username
>>> lead me to believe that you are one of the good guys. I took the time when I
>>> was not obligated to do so, and your response is to threaten me with
>>> "spreading the word". Spreading the word about what? That I am careful
>>> and screen all registrants before letting them into this forum? That you
>>> received an response you weren't really due, consisting of an apology
>>> and an explanation of my actions?
>>>
>>> So, you needn't bother with threats. I'll be happy to share this
>>> exchange for all the world to see. Don't misunderstand me- I would not publish
>>> your name or your email address. You see, unlike you, I am not making
>>> threats; I am simply telling you that you have misjudged the situation, and if
>>> you think this needs to be made known publicly, I'll be happy to do it.

_______________


>>> Okay see you are anti government. I signed up as private person and
>>> have internet access which I can access gunsites for informational purpose
>>> meaning we use Sig guns and wanted any news and information on the
>>> basis of Sig information but you feel threatened by me. It is you that has
>>> misjudged the situation. I never threatened you since I asked if you do
>>> not want certain Sig owners that I can pass the word out. I would never
>>> venture anywhere I am not welcomed or feel discriminated. Anyways this
>>> is not going anywhere and I do wish you the best. I will use other sites
>>> for Sig information. Please destroy all my information.
>>>
>>> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy A51.


_______________


>> From: (redacted)@sigforum.com <(redacted)@sigforum.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 3, 2022 3:17:48 PM
>> To: (redacted). <(redacted)@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: Email Confirmation
>>
>> (redacted), let me ask you- if you had signed up from your home internet, do
>> you think we would be having this conversation? The people who egsiter for
>> my forum- I do not know, nor do I care, what they do for a living.
>>
>> You say you signed up as a private person, but you are ignoring the fact
>> that you did so from a government network. That is the crux of the
>> matter. Routinely, I deny any registration coming from government networks. Stop
>> and think about it for a second, will you? How in the world could I
>> possibly know the intent of someone connecting to my forum form a
>> government-owned network? You're a gun owner, apparently. Are you going
>> to tell me that gun owners should not be concerned about contacts from the
>> US government? I find that quite difficult to believe. And to be clear, no,
>> I am not anti-government; it is the reverse. The government is
>> anti-citizen. I am not some hyper-paranoid jackwagon who thinks Big Brother is out to
>> get him, but the Biden administration has made their stance on gun
>> ownership crystal clear.
>>
>> My forum fully supports and endorses law enforcement, and that includes
>> Federal law enforcement officers, which you seem to be. Border Patrol,
>> yes? You think I don't support the men and women of the Border Patrol?
>> We need you now, more than ever. But, the DHS has other departments, don't
>> they? How am I to know just who you are and what is your intent for
>> registering.
>>
>> So, normally, when I see such registrations, I simply delete them and
>> that is all there is to it, but you emailed me and asked politely, and
>> therefore, I responded, politely. You also seem to be forgetting that I
>> tried to make it so that you could still get in. You could have said
>> "I'd rather not say" or you could have re-registered from your home network.
>> You're not the only one who has borders to guard. I guard the borders of
>> this forum.
>>
>> You're asking me to destroy all information about you. Well, when I
>> deleted your registration, there was no information at all being
>> retained. It was all gone. But, I'll retain this email exchange, because if you're
>> going to threaten me with "spreading the word", then, I need to keep
>> these emails. I'll not have you or anyone else making accusations about me or
>> my site and not have any evidence as to what actually transpired. If you
>> want this to be over, then, it's over, but if I get wind you're making claims
>> which are distorted or outright untrue, then I'll have evidence of what
>> really happened. I wasn't born yesterday.
>>
>> Now, barring any such public accusations coming from you, then all of
>> this is nothing but history, never to see the light of day. It's up to you.

_______________


>> Okay based on what you are saying I should not open an account from
>> computers operated by libraries, schools, FedEx Kinkos office, Starbucks
>> wifi etc. I have signed up with many sites using all of the above with
>> no problems and issues. I understand you have trust issues and do not wish
>> to sway from it which is why i stated I will tell my friends and coworkers
>> to avoid your site. I do not see this as a threat since this is what you
>> are asking. You can do whatever you want but I ask is please do not post my
>> personal information as I am now fearful of your anti Government/law
>> enforcement views.
>>
>> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy A51.

_______________


> From: (redacted)@sigforum.com <(redacted)@sigforum.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 4, 2022 11:35:07 AM
> To: (redacted) . <(redacted)@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Email Confirmation
>
> You actually want me to believe you are that dense? I told you the
> specific problem with your registration attempt and now you want to behave
> as if you just can't comprehend. Let me tell you something- if you are
> fearful of my posting anything about this, you are doing the exact
> opposite of what you should be doing, which is just walking away.
>
> Furthermore, my previous comments abut law enforcement should have made it
> clear to you that I support law enforcement, and law enforcement receives
> a full and enthusiastic endorsement in my forum, but you want to behave as
> if you can't read and comprehend plain English, and you know, I'm
> beginning to think that may be true.
>
> Something else I'm beginning to think is that while you may be a DHS
> employee, you're not a law enforcement officer because I find it very
> difficult to believe that a federal LEO would be as dense as you appear to
> be. Frankly, you sound like a college-age kid. You sound like someone with
> little to no actual life experience. I have been forthright with you, but
> you behave as if you don't get it. All this crap about how you're
> "fearful" of yadda-yadda. Ridiculous.
>
> Now, I've already told you that all you do for this to be a thing of the
> past is to just leave it alone, but you keep coming back. Keep it up and I
> may very well publish this entire email exchange. Go play in someone
> else's yard.

_______________


> You can believe what you want and that is your right. I am just amazed
> you made me feel like a second class citizen but you are correct that we
> need to move on. I cannot control your next action nor can I accept you
> support Government employees which you made it clear you do not but I
> support your beliefs. Take care and this is my last email to you
>
> Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy A51.

_______________


No one can make you "feel" like anything if you don't allow it. That's on
you, not me.

And just so there is no doubt in your mind, I'll tell you again what I
told you at the outset when you threatened to spread it around that I am
anti-law enforcement, which is completely untrue- I may publish this email
exchange, but I would not under any circumstances reveal your name or your
email address. Does that ease your fears? I have no desire to cause
trouble for you or anyone else, but I do not care for being threatened, so
if you want to say you'll let everyone know about this, I'll just do it
for you, but none of your personal information would be included. I can't
make it any clearer. You speak of "trust issues" but you behave as if I'm
out to get you. It's ridiculous, man.



.

As an ExFed, I can say confidently that registering for a forum as a “private citizen” with a benign interest in SIG firearms, using a government computer and your government email address is strictly prohibited and constitutes “misuse of government property.” All of which leads me to conclude that the person who emailed you was operating in an official capacity, not as an individual on “personal time.”

It’s been made crystal clear that this forum supports law enforcement at any level.

As a former fed and LEO, methinks he doth protest too much.

Wow, that's pretty dense right there...

Sometimes miscommunications happen (I’ve experienced it once or twice myself). I find that if I “get my back up” and assume the worst of the other person, things usually don’t get better. If I take a deep breath, consider that I may have misunderstood the other person and try to give them the benefit of the doubt, things don’t always get better, but they usually do. Sadly, your attempted registrant took the former course rather than the latter.

That’s too bad, but oh well, his loss.

ETA: My bad for failing to answer Para’s question. Belatedly, the official position and everything I have seen from Para and almost all others is respectful support of law enforcement. There is much respect for law enforcement and generally a benefit of the doubt where things are ambiguous. However, it is not a blind, slavish, LE can do no wrong attitude, as evidenced by discussion of Mohamed Noor. I can’t imagine a more reasonable approach that that taken by SIGforum, Para, and the overwhelming majority of the membership.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: slosig,

I'm ready to show every federal LE officer the door.

We're here when you leave and join another reputable LE agency. The Federal agencies have proven they are acting against the citizens of this country in countless ways. This is a violation of their oath, and solidly lands them in the category where others who have taken the same oath are honor-bound to stand against them. Which is with whom I continue to stand and support.

This forum also stands with, and has a significant presence of, law enforcement professionals who honor their oaths, and live the values we all want LE professionals to honor. We, like the majority of the country, stand with these fine men and women of integrity. Federal officers have chosen to abandon integrity and honor. Our hand has been forced by their decisions.

Officers of the FED. Take this however you want, send your robots, do your worst.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
As an ExFed, I can say confidently that registering for a forum as a “private citizen” with a benign interest in SIG firearms, using a government computer and your government email address is strictly prohibited and constitutes “misuse of government property.” All of which leads me to conclude that the person who emailed you was operating in an official capacity, not as an individual on “personal time.”

It’s been made crystal clear that this forum supports law enforcement at any level.

This is exactly my sentiments..

Something about this guy gives off "bad vibes". If he were truly interested in just swapping Sig information, he would gladly say "I will just use my home email" - but he didn't.

I don't believe anything about his "job background" or his motives to join. It is almost like he wants to be targeted so that he can object vigorously! Some people only function when they feel they are a victim. He has nothing to offer to our group.

Anyone that has perused the forum at all, should have a pretty good idea that law enforcement is completely supported.

I'm a bit scared this guy is in federal law enforcement. You make a simple request and they go way afield. Example, saying you will not admit someone that registers from a library.

Seems all he had to say was - I should have registered from my home computer. I am employed by the xyz but assure you this is purely based on my personal interest. My mistake registering from work. Hope you'll let me register.


Responding to Para's question- this place absolutely supports LEOs

Using a .gov email address for your personal forum membership, nothing good goes from there. If his or her actions were truly innocuous they missed a lot of IT security training from the government, if they were looking to get in here and say, administration we announced our presence in your space by our email address then they weren’t here supporting the forum or it’s members and owner. Thanks Para, 20 years plus here and this place is the best, having to screen like this is a sad state of affairs but albeit necessary. My optimists side wants me to think this was a boob of a Fed who thought he could impress everybody with his occupation or status, but unfortunately deep down I know it was .gov with no good intentions.

quote:

Originally posted by smlsig:

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
As an ExFed, I can say confidently that registering for a forum as a “private citizen” with a benign interest in SIG firearms, using a government computer and your government email address is strictly prohibited and constitutes “misuse of government property.” All of which leads me to conclude that the person who emailed you was operating in an official capacity, not as an individual on “personal time.”

It’s been made crystal clear that this forum supports law enforcement at any level.

This is exactly my sentiments..

Yup.

(Play a fed on occasions… lol )

I'm pretty sure Para got this one exactly right.
Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck.

I have yet to see anyone catch grief that didnt earn it, either by trolling or scamming.

The language seems to me to the type used by someone who is not a native speaker.

Yeah, a lot of red flags there for me


First of all, I’d imagine this site would be blocked from access while on a DHS network, so this person was up to no good IMO.

How are they registering from a .gov network unless this site was purposefully unblocked for them?

You were right to tell this guy to hit the bricks.

quote:

Originally posted by TMats:
As an ExFed, I can say confidently that registering for a forum as a “private citizen” with a benign interest in SIG firearms, using a government computer and your government email address is strictly prohibited

quote:

Originally posted by spunk639:
Using a .gov email address for your personal forum membership, nothing good goes from there.

... I'm not seeing where he used his government email address. All the communication seems to be coming from his personal Hotmail account.

There's also not any specific indication that he used a government computer.

It's just that the initial registration came while he was utilizing a DHS IP address, which means that whatever device he was using was connecting through a DHS network. For example, it could have been his personal phone on the office wifi in the breakroom.

quote:

Originally posted by AKSuperDually:
The Federal agencies have proven they are acting against the citizens of this country in countless ways. This is a violation of their oath, and solidly lands them in the category where others who have taken the same oath are honor-bound to stand against them.

I don't feel this way. The problem is not the rank-and-file officers in these agencies. The problem is at the top level, and probably at mid-level as well, but the men and women who put their lives on the line have my support.

This is why in my initial response to him I told him that I suspect that he's one of the good guys.

And, to be clear, the registration attempt did come through the DHS network, but this person did not use their DHS email address. The crux of the matter is the origin of the registration attempt.

This guy told me in an email I just received from him that he is not a college-age kid. He tells me he is close to retirement age. To that I say, more's the pity, because if you read his emails, he does come across like a twenty-something kid.

There's no question in my mind that SIGforum is 100% pro law enforcement. If some member posts otherwise Para would have them out of here el pronto.

If anyone thinks Para doesn't work extremely hard to keep this forum clean and free of those here to cause mayhem, then they're not paying attention. Good for you Para. I for one appreciate your work.