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Not really from Vienna |
Payne seems to have a screw loose. He shouldn't be in any position of authority. That's the best I can say for him. | |||
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| Member |
Now here's where it can go wrong with disciplinary action: His rep will ask: 1. This happened on 26 July, correct? 2. When did you become aware of it? 3. If his actions were so egregious, why did you wait 2, 3 weeks, a month (what ever the time frame is) to take action? At that point, it will go to an arbitrator. Arbitrator will rule in his favor, he'll retire. That's why in cases like this you get out in front and stay in front of them. | |||
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Objectively Reasonable |
A few years back, one of our guys got cut on a broken window during a search warrant. Bad enough to require stitches, but this wasn't a violent assault... just didn't realize that there was still glass left in the frame he was reaching through. 80% or better of the "human resources" at that ER were temporarily shifted to him when we walked him in. Comparatively mild injury, agent from a tiny white-collar shop nobody hears or cares about 999 days out of 1000. But until they did a full assessment and got to cleaning/suturing, he WAS the show because of the tiny li'l gold shield and the raid jacket. It'll be a cold day in Hell before I give a nurse-- particularly an ER nurse-- so much as a crossways look for anything short of a major felony. But that's just me. | |||
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| Not One of the Cool Kids  |
You're reading a lot in to one post. You're assuming a lot about me, what I think and what I do and don't think. I'm not offended nor am I too good for anything.  You may have missed where I made a negative comment about this individual officer. Read my posts in criticism of the cop and then your last few sentences and try to reconcile them. The poster I was addressing has made generalized posts about LE in the past. I keep track of those folks by putting them on my blocked list. It's easier than remembering names. | |||
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| Member |
Same here and not just because the Mrs. is an RN. | |||
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| Member |
This cop was a douchebag of utmost proportions. I was just refreshing myself on The FMCSA regs for drug and alcohol testing. The officer did have the right to demand a blood test. The regulation is FMCSA 382.303 which can be found here. https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/r....382#se49.5.382_1303 I am not excusing the beligerant actions of the officer, however federal law does support requiring a blood draw after a fatal accident regardless of the issuance of a citation or suspicion of intoxication. | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Yeah, but that's not at all the responsibility of the SLC police department. Or any police department for that matter. This officer had no business demanding a blood test in the purview of the FMCSA or the CFRs. So no, he had no right to demand a blood test here. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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| No double standards |
Seems to me if the officer had the character to say "I am really sorry, I screwed up", with that kind of character he wouldn't have caused the stink in the first place. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| Nature is full of magnificent creatures |
How about the Lt.? Did he apologize? After what he had his detective do to her, he had the nerve to give her a nasty lecture? Sorry should have started with him apologizing to her and letting her out of custody instead of being condescending. I think he's at least as bad, or worse, than the detective. | |||
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| No double standards |
Good point. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| hello darkness my old friend  |
FrankT, here in SLC we all carry a blood draw kit in our cars. They have seals, a couple of vials and other paperwork that the state crime lab requires. The crime lab in the state has dozens of jurisdictions and these kits are just for standardization. We all have the kits but it doesn't mean we are going to draw the blood. I don't know of any agencies in SLC that have trained officers as phlebotomists. Must of the agencies call fire departments as we have had the paramedics trained to do the blood draws. As for the investigations The U of U police will likely be doing the criminal investigation along with the D.A. who will be screening any charges against Mr Payne. The D.A. in SL county is very much anti cop. Think Marilyn Mosby. He hates us and we have zero trust in him. It has gotten so bad that some of the local police Unions have warned against talking with the D.A. during shooting investigations. I wouldn't worry about the impartiality of the D.A. in this case. oppps. Looks like the Salt Lake County deputies will be doing the investigation. | |||
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| Nature is full of magnificent creatures |
What exactly does it mean the D.A. will be screening charges? How does the D.A. do that after examining the evidence the Unified Police will bring him? How much discretion does the D.A. have in bringing charges? Do I understand correctly that in this matter, the Unified Police investigation will be like an internal affairs investigation? | |||
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| hello darkness my old friend |
The D.A. has their own investigators who will investigate along with the detectives from Unified. The investigators do the investigation, interviews, evidence collection and then all of that information is turned over the the D.A. who makes the decision what happens. Its a long process but this is how all charges are filed in Salt Lake county. The detectives can suggest charges but it's really up to the D.A. and the individual attorneys he assigns. The D.A. can file charges by issuing warrants, he can decline to file charges or he can sent it back for more investigation. They can also turn it over the the feds but its normally up to the feds to come calling and request the case. | |||
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Dances with Wiener Dogs |
Which tells me this is a systemic issue, not just one bad cop. Given that the Lt. was this bad and his own peers just stood by and watched, it says the entire department thinks this kid of behavior is normal and acceptable. Add to that the chief knew about this in July, but only when it comes to national attention does he even make a peep about it. That dept has a lot of rot that needs to be cleaned out. _______________________ “The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.” Ayn Rand “If we relinquish our rights because of fear, what is it exactly, then, we are fighting for?” Sen. Rand Paul | |||
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I Wanna Missile |
The thing you all are forgetting is that the law in Utah explicitly allows blood draws from unconscious patients who cannot give consent. He wasn't asking her to draw the blood, he was going to do it himself. She was interfering with that because of hospital policy. Hospital policy doesn't supersede state law. She was obstructing a peace officer. Could it have been handled better? Yes. Was he within the letter of the law? As far as I can see, yes. "I am a Soldier. I fight where I'm told and I win where I fight." GEN George S. Patton, Jr. | |||
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| Author, cowboy, friend to all |
I doubt that it stops with Lt. The way the police chief talked circles around the issue, he has been in situations like this one before and will talk most of the department out of the situation. There will be a few sacrifices to satisfy the public and life will go on. The nurse fought her battle and is to be congratulated, a true professional looking out for the rights of her charges with style. | |||
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| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
What cause did this officer have to draw blood from this patient? Just because he felt like it? This patient was a victim in this accident; not the perpetrator. And the nurse was not citing hospital policy. She was referring to state law as to her refusal to allow the blood to be drawn. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan "Once there was only dark. If you ask me, light is winning." ~Rust Cohle | |||
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Age Quod Agis |
No. PC. He has none, so he can't draw. Period. "I vowed to myself to fight against evil more completely and more wholeheartedly than I ever did before. . . . That’s the only way to pay back part of that vast debt, to live up to and try to fulfill that tremendous obligation." Alfred Hornik, Sunday, December 2, 1945 to his family, on his continuing duty to others for surviving WW II. | |||
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Giftedly Outspoken |
Could you please provide evidence of such law? Because here is what I have found:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20170902-story.html Sometimes, you gotta roll the hard six | |||
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| Fuimus |
He was the victim of the accident, not the person who caused the accident. The detective needs approval to draw blood from an unconscious victim. | |||
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