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I swear I had
something for this
posted March 23, 2025 05:45 PMHide Post
https://racer.com/2025/03/23/l...fications-confirmed/

quote:
Leclerc, Hamilton and Gasly China disqualifications confirmed

Leclerc, Hamilton and Gasly China disqualifications confirmed
Charles Leclerc, Lewis Hamilton and Pierre Gasly have all been disqualified from the Chinese Grand Prix for failing post-race technical checks.

Leclerc and Gasly were found to be underweight by 1kg per car, with both Ferrari and Alpine admitting that there were no mitigating factors for their infringements.

“During the hearing there was no challenge to the FIA’s measurements which are taken to be correct and that all required procedures were performed correctly,” the stewards wrote relating to both teams. “There are no mitigating circumstances and that the team confirmed that it was a genuine error by them.”

Hamilton’s car was cited for having excessive wear to the rearward skids, and Ferrari similarly admitted there was no reason other than a setup mistake that had led to the issue.

“During the hearing the team representative confirmed that the measurement is correct and that all required procedures were performed correctly,” the stewards repeated. “The team also acknowledged that there were no mitigating circumstances and that it was a genuine error by the team.”

Both Ferraris being disqualified had a significant impact on the final points as Leclerc and Hamilton had originally finished fifth and sixth respectively. Esteban Ocon is now promoted to fifth for Haas ahead of Kimi Antonelli and Alex Albon, with Ollie Bearman, Lance Stroll and Carlos Sainz rounding out the points.

Gasly would have profited from the Ferrari infringements having originally crossed the line 11th, but for his own disqualification that leaves Alpine as the only team yet to score a point this season.
 
Posts: 4767 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
As Extraordinary
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Picture of smlsig
posted March 23, 2025 07:34 PMHide Post
^^^
Holy Cow! That’s going to sting. Unfortunately it sounds like Ferrari’s engineering is just not up to the task (as usual).


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
Posts: 6654 | Location: In transit | Registered: February 19, 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted March 23, 2025 09:10 PMHide Post
An interesting race to see the different strategies and how they worked out.
The Leclerc wing was another aspect. It was the perfect and extremely rare scenario, damaged in just the right way to possibly give an advantage and not break off the car. The camera shows exactly what the rules are trying to prevent by limiting the flexibility. The wing flattened out at higher speeds to reduce drag but the tip was close to the pavement to seal off the end to allow more downforce.
I would have thought the officials could have said that it was a potential danger to Charles and other competitors, not to mention the competitive advantage and insisted that it be replaced.
Then Ferrari didn’t swap the positions back on the last lap.
Didn’t matter in the end with the disqualifications of the cars for completely different reasons.
Also interested to see if Red Bull swaps Yuki and Lawson, especially with the next race being in Japan. Can anyone but Max drive that car effectively?


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Picture of ChuckFinley
posted March 23, 2025 09:32 PMHide Post
Those disqualifications are mind blowing.

I can't see Red Bull moving up Tsunoda after all the history, but if things stay as they are they may have no recourse. Would be interesting if he gets the seat then struggles as so many others have. Have been hearing more and more about the Red Bull car development and set up being geared only to support Max's style and preferences, which could explain more of the performance disparities.




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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
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I swear I had
something for this
posted March 23, 2025 11:45 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
An interesting race to see the different strategies and how they worked out.


There was nothing interesting about this race. With the amount of IndyCar fans upset at The Thermal Race today, I'm starting to wonder if the reason I thought it was a good race was because I watched China right before it. Any real strategy was over by Lap 5 as all the point payers were done and over with.

quote:
I would have thought the officials could have said that it was a potential danger to Charles and other competitors, not to mention the competitive advantage and insisted that it be replaced.


There wasn't much of a chance of the wing tearing itself apart, so they might as well have kept it on. Any aero loss probably helped out his front left tire wear. Then again, they probably could have done better like during the Sprint if they got their setup right. Instead, LeClerc was 1kg light and Lewis ground too much out of his rear plank.

Along with Alpine having bendy wings, loading Gasly's car too light for a DQ, and the Ferrari's getting a Double DQ, Carlos Sainz earns his first point with Williams, and Lance Stroll is beating LeClerc and Hamilton in the points.

quote:
Also interested to see if Red Bull swaps Yuki and Lawson, especially with the next race being in Japan. Can anyone but Max drive that car effectively?


I don't think they'll switch at Japan because Suzuka is the first track that Liam Lawson has experience with this year. If they do make the change, I'm thinking Round 5 at Saudi Arabia will be it because Suzuka and Bahrain are back-to-back races with a week or two break until Jedda.

I'm also thinking that Red Bull's biggest mistake in car development is they're relying TOO much on CFD and wind tunnel to tell them how to make a fast car when in real life the car has to stay lab perfect in order to get that speed out of it. It's resulted into an extremely twitchy car. If they worked more on drivability than maximum attack, Lawson and Perez would look far better and Max would barely lose any points at all.
 
Posts: 4767 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
posted March 24, 2025 12:16 AMHide Post
Life doesn't get any better for Jack Doohan. He has no championship points, but has 4 penalty points after 2 races and a sprint. What's the over/under for Franco Colapinto getting back in F1 before Red Bull replaces Liam Lawson?

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/...s-in-china/10706623/

quote:
Jack Doohan racks up four penalty points in one weekend after China GP ordeal

Jack Doohan finishes the first two Grands Prix with no championship points, but instead four penalty points on his super licence.

The Australian driver finished the Chinese sprint race in 20th and the Grand Prix in 13th, and although he didn't leave the Shanghai International Circuit with championship points, he did walk away with four penalty points on his super licence. Here's how.

Chinese sprint race: 10-second penalty and 2 penalty points
Doohan's first penalty of the weekend came after causing a collision with Sauber driver Gabriel Bortoleto, a breach of Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 2 d) of the FIA International Sporting Code.

The stewards issued a 10-second time penalty and two penalty points to Doohan after they confirmed that he had attempted to overtake Bortoleto on the inside of Turn 14, but instead collided with the Sauber after locking up at the apex. The official statement from the stewards reads:

"DOO [Doohan] suggested that he was in control of the overtake but the presence of the two Haas cars and the line they took compromised his overtake attempt.

"First, as the car attempting to overtake, the responsibility was on DOO to ensure that it was done in a safe manner and in line with the regulations and the guidelines.

"Secondly, applying the Driving Standards Guidelines, DOO did not have the right to the corner at the apex and should have backed off – here, because of the speed at which he approached the corner for the overtake and the resulting lockup and understeer, a collision was caused, for which DOO was predominantly to blame."

Chinese Grand Prix: 10-second penalty and 2 penalty points
Another incident involving Doohan took place during the Grand Prix, where he was found to have forced Racing Bulls driver Isack Hadjar off the track, breaching Appendix L, Chapter IV, Article 2 b) of the International Sporting Code.

Again at Turn 14, the Alpine driver attempted to take his position back from Hadjar after he had previously overtaken him in the run-up to the corner, but ended up forcing the 20-year-old wide and off the track. The stewards determined:

"Car 7 (DOO) was overtaken by Car 6 (HAD) in the run up to Turn 14 and in trying to take the position back on the inside, DOO lost control, locked up and forced HAD off the track. We accordingly imposed a 10 second time penalty with 2 penalty points which is in keeping with the guidelines for forcing a driver off the track."

Doohan hopes to turn his luck around at the Japanese Grand Prix, which will kick off the first triple-header of the 2025 season, in two weeks.
 
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posted March 26, 2025 07:22 PMHide Post
Lawson is out and Yuki is in at the Senior Red Bull Team.
Basically they are swapping seats. Let’s hope Yuki can get a handle on that bull in front of his home country.


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Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
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posted March 26, 2025 07:33 PMHide Post
^ Is that official? Don't see anything from F1 yet.

Hopefully, if Yuki doesn't perform well, they'll get him back in the RB which he can do well in.
Also, hope Yuki can keep his temper/outbursts down a bit. I think that was one of the things holding him from promoting to the big boy seat at RBR.

Edit: It's official now.

Tsunoda / Lawson swap official for Suzuka

https://www.formula1.com/en/la...qawI5Q4YYPhhMJpHqUiO

quote:
​​​​​​​
Red Bull have announced that Yuki Tsunoda will replace Liam Lawson at the senior Red Bull Racing squad from the Japanese Grand Prix onwards, with the 24-year-old getting the nod to replace Lawson following a difficult opening two races for the New Zealander.

Lawson raced alongside Tsunoda in the latter stages of 2024 after replacing Daniel Ricciardo at the then-named RB team, and his performances were enough to earn him a promotion to Red Bull as Max Verstappen’s new team mate in 2025 following the exit of Sergio Perez.

However, Lawson struggled to get to grips with the RB21 during the Australian and Chinese Grand Prix weekends, crashing out in the former amid treacherous conditions before crossing the line in 15th in Shanghai, which later became 12th following the disqualifications of Charles Leclerc, Lewis Hamilton and Pierre Gasly ahead.

Rumours quickly mounted that the 23-year-old could be replaced at the team as early as Round 3 in Japan, and now it has been confirmed that Tsunoda will fill Lawson’s seat when F1 returns to Suzuka on April 4-6 – with Lawson returning to the Racing Bulls squad alongside rookie Isack Hadjar.

After making his debut for the then-named AlphaTauri squad back in 2021, Tsunoda has continued to develop as a driver across the years that have followed, the Japanese racer having outscored his recent team mates including Nyck de Vries and Daniel Ricciardo.

The 2024 campaign was one that Tsunoda heralded as “one of my best” after scoring 30 of his team’s 46 points across the season.

He went on to make his test debut for Red Bull at the post-season test in Abu Dhabi – but it was subsequently confirmed that Lawson rather than Tsunoda would replace Perez at the Milton Keynes-based outfit in 2025.

Tsunoda – now in his fifth campaign in Formula 1 – went on to state that he could “understand” why the team chose Lawson, insisting that he didn’t feel “super angry or disappointed” upon hearing the news.

But with Lawson’s Red Bull tenure ending after just two races, Tsunoda has been given his opportunity to race alongside Verstappen at the championship-winning squad – starting with his home event at Suzuka.

Lawson, meanwhile, will return to Racing Bulls where he will partner with rookie Isack Hadjar – the situation mirroring the cases of Daniil Kvyat and Pierre Gasly, who each returned to the sister outfit from Red Bull after three races into 2016 and 12 in 2019 respectively.

Red Bull Team Principal and CEO Christian Horner said: "It has been difficult to see Liam struggle with the RB21 at the first two races and, as a result, we have collectively taken the decision to make an early switch. We came into the 2025 season with two ambitions, to retain the World Drivers' Championship and to reclaim the World Constructors' title and this is a purely sporting decision.

"We acknowledge there is a lot of work to be done with the RB21 and Yuki's experience will prove highly beneficial in helping to develop the current car. We welcome him to the Team and are looking forward to seeing him behind the wheel of the RB21.

"We have a duty of care to protect and develop Liam and together, we see that after such a difficult start, it makes sense to act quickly so Liam can gain experience, as he continues his F1 career with Visa Cash App Racing Bulls, an environment and a Team he knows very well."

Laurent Mekies, Team Principal of Racing Bulls, said: “We’re incredibly proud of Yuki earning his well-deserved move to Oracle Red Bull Racing! His progress last year, and more recently from the very start of 2025, has been nothing less than sensational.

“Personally, and collectively, it has been an immense privilege to witness those progresses for all of us in Faenza and in Milton Keynes. Yuki’s energy and positivity has lightened up every corner of our factories and of our garage and he will always be a Racing Bull! We wish him all the success he deserves at ORBR.

“Everyone here at VCARB is looking forward to working hard with Liam to give him the best environment possible for him to shine in our car and to express the talent we all know he has. He fit in so well last year, and we cannot wait to challenge ourselves and grow as a team. With Isack having started so strongly with us already, we know we have a young and strong line-up.”

This message has been edited. Last edited by: P250UA5, March 27, 2025 06:39 AM




The Enemy's gate is down.
 
Posts: 16676 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
posted March 27, 2025 07:03 AMHide Post
Yeah, I didn't expect that THIS soon. Makes me wonder if Yuki will have the same problem as Lawson did in this seat, but Red Bull seems to be locked on stupid with no sign of changing.
 
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posted March 27, 2025 08:09 AMHide Post
Didn't ever realize Prime has a F1 channel 24/7. They played Montreal and Hamilton's first win followed by China 2025 replay back to back yesterday.

Surprised by Tsunoda's move. Guess the race being in Japan was part of the motivation.




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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
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Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted March 27, 2025 08:15 AMHide Post
At least they'll have a quick answer if Yuki's all he claims to be and if the cars' really that bad to setup.
Maybe Max needs a #2 that has better engineering skills to help with feedback.
He seems to be having an increasingly difficult time there too, so it's not just that an unstable car is quicker and only he can drive it.


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posted March 27, 2025 08:19 AMHide Post
Makes you wonder if pushing all development to suit the #1 really puts the hurt on #2.
If they backed off just enough to make the car more drivable for both, Max maybe loses a tenth or 2, but both cars are more competitive.

I don't think there has been a competitive 1/2 at RBR since it was Max/Daniel. Downhill since then.

Hope Yuki can hack it, and if not, that they put him back in the RB he's comfortable in & not let him flounder til they cut him loose.

Just have to hope he [Yuki] can keep his cool while he settles in.




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Posts: 16676 | Location: Spring, TX | Registered: July 11, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Just because you can,
doesn't mean you should
posted March 27, 2025 08:37 AMHide Post
quote:
Makes you wonder if pushing all development to suit the #1 really puts the hurt on #2.



Yes.
But I don't think it would hurt Max either. He would slightly change his style, maybe, like he probably did when Ricciardo was his teammate.
And even then, the car/team was the dominant car.
Since Daniel left they haven't had a #2 with a strong enough personality and speed to balance things out.


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posted March 27, 2025 09:11 AMHide Post
I agree 100% with the recent posts. While things didn't work out well for Daniel all that has transpired since does underscore the point that he was feeling/making. I don't understand, with all their resources, why both cars have to be set up so precisely the same. I would think that in the programming, wing selection etc there could be enough adjustment to be more accommodating of 2 drivers. If Yuki does no better then it will make it abundantly clear that the team's approach has been to blame for torpedoing Daniel's career and everyone's since in the #2.




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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
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posted March 27, 2025 09:18 AMHide Post
While not a direct parallel, this all reminds me a bit of the movie Moneyball.

It feels like many of the top teams have become properly focused on the money, aka the Constructors championship. All the chatter about McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes drivers taking Drivers points off each other to the possible advantage of Max just further illustrates the old-school and flawed approach.

They do have to balance the inter-team dynamics which is a challenge when you have two drivers like LN/OP for example. However the upside of being able to eclipse teams that are still mired in the 75-year model of a senior #1 driver and a junior #2 will yield much more money to the teams and afford the drivers ultimately more opportunity to be and stay at the pointy end.

Or I may be crazy.....



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I swear I had
something for this
posted March 27, 2025 09:20 AMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ChuckFinley:
I agree 100% with the recent posts. While things didn't work out well for Daniel all that has transpired since does underscore the point that he was feeling/making.

If Yuki does no better then it will make it abundantly clear that the team's approach has been to blame for torpedoing Daniel's career and everyone's since in the #2.


Are you sure you're talking about Ricciardo and not Sergio Perez? Danny Ric killed his own career trying to be the Money Badger at Renault and not being able to work with the ground effect cars.

This does put Sergio Perez in a better light, but I doubt even if the Red Bull was more drivable that he'd be the #2 required now that more teams have caught up to Red Bull.
 
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posted March 27, 2025 09:32 AMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Georgeair:
While not a direct parallel, this all reminds me a bit of the movie Moneyball.

It feels like many of the top teams have become properly focused on the money, aka the Constructors championship. All the chatter about McLaren, Ferrari and Mercedes drivers taking Drivers points off each other to the possible advantage of Max just further illustrates the old-school and flawed approach.

They do have to balance the inter-team dynamics which is a challenge when you have two drivers like LN/OP for example. However the upside of being able to eclipse teams that are still mired in the 75-year model of a senior #1 driver and a junior #2 will yield much more money to the teams and afford the drivers ultimately more opportunity to be and stay at the pointy end.

Or I may be crazy.....


In the case of McLaren, you have 2 very high-level drivers that race fairly against each other.
A 1/2 is a 1/2 for the team, no matter which car takes the win.
Taking 1 in the points & 1 mired in the back [RBR] just hurts the team as a whole.

I'm a Bottas fan, and while he wasn't a true WDC competitor to Lewis, he did put up solid results that resulted in multiple WCC championships 2016-2021 with the team, with VB finishing 3,5,2,2,3 respectively over those years with LH taking the WDC [except 2021].




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posted March 27, 2025 11:20 AMHide Post
While of course true that he chased the money DR has been clear that primary frustration/motivation was that it was clear that the garage was not going to give his side of it what he needed.

You raise a good point that, regardless of where he was, this current car design/dynamics may not have suited him, regardless of where he was.




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As Extraordinary
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posted March 27, 2025 02:14 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 220-9er:
At least they'll have a quick answer if Yuki's all he claims to be and if the cars' really that bad to setup.
Maybe Max needs a #2 that has better engineering skills to help with feedback.
He seems to be having an increasingly difficult time there too, so it's not just that an unstable car is quicker and only he can drive it.


I have been watching some talking heads describe the RB 21 as a car with virtually no understeer, just like Max likes it and the junior team car is more neutrally balanced. Having raced Porsches for several years I’m trying to understand why they can’t just adjust the second car to have a more neutral balance to suit another driver. Simple adjustments like tire pressures, shock setting and alignment can drastically alter the behavior of a car, all without any appreciable costs. Maybe the second drivers just weren’t able to provide the technical feedback to the engineers which would allow them to make the proper adjustments but I find that hard to believe.

If Yuki can keep his head down and not start whining he should do well. You have to think he realizes that this is his one shot at a top team and if he doesn’t perform and get up to speed quickly well…..


------------------
Eddie

Our Founding Fathers were men who understood that the right thing is not necessarily the written thing. -kkina
 
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posted March 27, 2025 02:40 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by smlsig:
If Yuki can keep his head down and not start whining he should do well. You have to think he realizes that this is his one shot at a top team and if he doesn’t perform and get up to speed quickly well…..


I saw one channel take a comment of: Could this end Yuki's career, if he doesn't perform at RBR?

Fair point. You don't really say 'no' to a shot at the top team, but if you aren't cutting it, will they 'demote' you back to your seat or just cut you loose?




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