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Purveyor of
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Picture of Orguss
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quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
From chapter 6:

"We'll be riding a Heighliner because it’s a long trip. A Heighliner is truly big. Its hold will tuck all our frigates and transports into a little corner—we’ll be just a small part of the ship’s manifest.”

You're quoting from the book. I've already established that I understood it to be that way; however, it is not depicted that way in the movie.



"I'm yet another resource-consuming kid in an overpopulated planet raised to an alarming extent by Hollywood and Madison Avenue, poised with my cynical and alienated peers to take over the world when you're old and weak!" - Calvin, "Calvin & Hobbes"
 
Posts: 17298 | Location: Sonoma County, CA | Registered: April 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of konata88
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I've watched it 3 times now. It's pretty well done from the perspective of a person not familiar with the Dune books.

Paul still looks weak but he certainly seems capable. And he seems to mature / grow as the film progresses - not physically but his demeanor.

Why didn't Jessica use the voice when confronted by the Fremen? Would that have weakened their acceptance, even if they would have won the confrontation?




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
"Do you really think your desire to force <...> your political ideology on me is greater than my will to stop you and remain free? Are you ready to risk death <...>? Because I am ready to risk death to end them." Brandon Smith
 
Posts: 10262 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
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quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
I've watched it 3 times now.


Hopefully at least one of those times has been in IMAX. It is a completely difference experience, almost a completely different movie, in the intended format

quote:
Why didn't Jessica use the voice when confronted by the Fremen? Would that have weakened their acceptance, even if they would have won the confrontation?

The voice is only used on one individual at a time because it needs to be tuned to them...that is why Paul was less successful during their escape; he hadn't focused in on his subject enough. This was referred to in the breakfast scene earlier in the movie




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13746 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Orguss:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
From chapter 6:

"We'll be riding a Heighliner because it’s a long trip. A Heighliner is truly big. Its hold will tuck all our frigates and transports into a little corner—we’ll be just a small part of the ship’s manifest.”

You're quoting from the book. I've already established that I understood it to be that way; however, it is not depicted that way in the movie.


You're right, it does look like some kind of warp gate thing in the movie, which is bizarre given how closely Villeneuve stuck to the book almost everywhere.
 
Posts: 5853 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
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quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
Sandworms being important to the ecology makes sense. Otherwise it seems like it would be better to just kill them off if they can eat whole whole harvesting platforms (which look huge); and then you can harvest 24x7 (or whatever their day looks like).


I am rereading the book now because it has been years and I couldn't figure out what to read next.

Early in the book, before they leave Caladan, Dr. Yueh gives Paul a "filmbook" about the study of a captured "small [sandworm], only one hundred and ten meters long and twenty-two meters in diameter" and tells Paul there are reliable reports of sandworms over 400 meters long and that "there's reason to believe even larger ones exist."

I can't remember off the top of my head if there are any larger sandworms described later in the book or in the sequels.
 
Posts: 5853 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Quiet Man
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If I remember correctly, Muad’dib becomes a sand rider after summoning a worm “half a league” long. If that’s a legit measurement, you’re looking at a 2400 meter worm. A true Old Man of the Desert.
 
Posts: 2282 | Registered: November 13, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
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quote:
Originally posted by copaup:
If I remember correctly, Muad’dib becomes a sand rider after summoning a worm “half a league” long. If that’s a legit measurement, you’re looking at a 2400 meter worm. A true Old Man of the Desert.


You're right:

"Presently he saw the faraway outline of the creature’s track against the dawnlight and realized he had never before seen a maker this large, never heard of one this size. It appeared to be more than half a league long, and the rise of the sandwave at its cresting head was like the approach of a mountain." (Chapter 40)
 
Posts: 5853 | Location: TX | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Don't Panic
Picture of joel9507
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Saw it yesterday, enjoyed it.

Bring on Part II! Smile
 
Posts: 14084 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: October 15, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I swear I had
something for this
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https://collider.com/dune-2-feyd-rautha-confirmed/

Villeneuve just confirmed that Feyd-Rautha will be in Part 2, but no casting information yet. It blows up my theory that they were going to shove Rabban into Feyd's role, but on the plus side, we're not going to see Dave Bautista try to be an evil genius.

It also makes me wonder if they're going to be ballsy and try for a Part 3. It's the best outcome to best tell the whole story of Dune, but is the audience going to come back? Going this route, I can't remember anything like Helm's Deep occuring, but without it, there's a lot to jam into Part 2. Shaddam the IV needs an introduction and development, and the only way the book made Irulan a character is by making her the "historian" recounting these events with some of her thoughts in the chapter headings.

The original plan was to have a Sisterhood of Dune series on HBO Max, which could have introduced some of the power players that Part I didn't have room for, but I haven't heard anything about that project since HBO blew up their plans last year.

If Part I was 2.5 hours, then Part 2 could be almost 4 hours to do everything right.
 
Posts: 2639 | Location: Kansas City, MO | Registered: May 28, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
Good idea. I think I'll watch it again with the insights above and now having some understanding of the theme and story. Plus i like Ferguson. Smile

ETA: Some questions as I watch again

1. Is everyone (Imperial, Atreides, Harrkones, Fremen, Bene G, etc) the same species? Or different species but humanoid? Is everyone evolved from us / humans? All humans - some mutated over the centuries.

2. What's the significance of the year? Is this earth years? Is it immaterial for the movie, only for the book to keep track the passage of time in the book? None, in particular.

3. Do they really speak Mandarin in the book? What's the significance, if any, of Yueh speaking Mandarin? Why not just speak English or whatever they are all supposed to be speaking? Why speak in a different language? Different people speak different languages. In the book Mandarin would have been long forgotten, but what is the movie going to do, make up a whole language?

4. Why does Paul look so weak? Is that they way he's portrayed in the book - a weakly teenager? Visually, not very inspiring. He doesn't seem weak. Paul was a highly trained and deadly fighter. He is only 15, though.

5. The barker at the beginning - a single black man out of thousands? Portrayed as such in the book? Or woke aspect? They just picked a black guy. So what?

6. The blue eyes and the garb of the fremen - a nod to persia? Or incidental? The prayers reminiscent of Islam? The "eyes of the Ibad" (all blue) indicate spice addiction. And yes, the Fremen are heavily influenced by Arab culture.

7. Why do the Atreides ships emerge from the water? Why aren't they on dry land? Just a movie thing - for looks and coolness.

8. When Leto leaves Atreiders, who is left managing the planet and the rest of its people? That planet is Caladan - the emperor ordered the Atriedes to take over Dune/Arrakis. Some other house got Caladan. It was all part of the plot to destroy the Atreides. The Emperor played along for his own reasons.

9. Is the Imperium good for the people, it's envious, treacherous actions toward Atreides aside? If so, why wouldn't they want Atriders to continue; why choose the barbaric Harkonnes over Atreides?
This sort of high level politics is kind of above the "good for the people" level. The Imperium, the commercial entitiy CHOAM (think independent British East India Company), and the Great Houses and their loose alliance are the big power players. The others are smaller players.

10. Why does the armed guards need armor if they have shields? Shields cannot be used on Dune in the open. They bring shai-hulud, may his passing cleanse the world. Also swords are a thing again because if a lasgun beam hits a shield each goes up in a near-nuclear explosion.

11. Why do the helicopters need mechanical means of thrust? Seems like their other craft have means of thrust that don't depend on mechanics. They flap and have jets to move faster in straight lines.

12. Are the sand worms vital to the Arrakis ecology? If not, why not just hunt them down and kill them? The worms make the spice, which must flow. That was suspected or known to Liet, but not to anyone else at this point. The Guild may have suspected it was true, but the Spacing Guild would do nothing that might disrupt the availability of the spice on which they are totally dependent.

13. If the Imperium is going to be visibly participating in the downfall of the Atreides, why not just wipe them out on Atreides? Why send them to Arrakis first? Because the Emperor cannot move openly against one house lest he anger the others.

14. getting in this a little more.....


You need to read the books, my friend.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50583 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
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quote:
Originally posted by copaup:

The Empire is overall fairly benign and hands off. The Houses rule their people as they see fit and then kick up tithes in profit and manpower to the Emperor. The Emperor rules by decree, but his power is balanced by the Great Houses, the Guild, and CHOAM (think of it as the galactic stock market and board of directors). He turns on Leto (who is actually a distant cousin he is fond of) because Leto’s popularity, legitimate (if weak) claim to the throne, and military might has made him a political threat.





SPOILERS (Although there have been hints.)

Most importantly, the Emperor learned that Duke Leto trained a small force under Halleck to a similar level of deadliness as the Imperial Sardaukar. The Sardaukar are the underlying reason the Imperium is powerful. Therefore, he fears the Atreides. So he makes a secret deal with the Harkonnens to get rid of them.

However, (and this is the spoiler) everyone made the mistake of not knowing how many Fremen were on Arrakis and even more importantly, that they were even more deadly than the Sardaukar.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50583 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of konata88
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Watched it again yesterday. I find most interesting the part up to the attack and then after the attach when Paul is running with Jessica. The attack is has action but is generally mechanical so I've started to skip it (am I missing something?).

BTW, what's up with the blood letting sacrifices? Seems rather ritual for a space faring race.

Thanks JHE - seems like I don't need to watch part 2 now. Smile




"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - B.Franklin
"Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy
"Do you really think your desire to force <...> your political ideology on me is greater than my will to stop you and remain free? Are you ready to risk death <...>? Because I am ready to risk death to end them." Brandon Smith
 
Posts: 10262 | Location: In the gilded cage | Registered: December 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
W07VH5
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quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
... BTW, what's up with the blood letting sacrifices? Seems rather ritual for a space faring race. ...
Are you asking about the fremen cutting themselves? You cannot sheath an unblooded crysknife.
 
Posts: 42922 | Location: Pennsyltucky | Registered: December 05, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
... BTW, what's up with the blood letting sacrifices? Seems rather ritual for a space faring race. ...
Are you asking about the fremen cutting themselves? You cannot sheath an unblooded crysknife.

He's referring to the the failed Sardaukar candidates are hung upside down, sacrificed and the drained blood is collected used for their pre-deployment ceremony.

The Sardaukar have a very fearsome reputation across the empire, their training is exceptionally harsh; they're sociopaths by definition. Sacrificial ceremonies, organ eating and blood rituals reinforce this reputation amongst the members, imbuing and inculcating a sense of invincibility while also spreading rumor and fear across the empire.
 
Posts: 12049 | Location: Wine Country | Registered: September 20, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mark123:
quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
... BTW, what's up with the blood letting sacrifices? Seems rather ritual for a space faring race. ...
Are you asking about the fremen cutting themselves? You cannot sheath an unblooded crysknife.


I think he’s talking about the scene on the Sardaukar planet, with a bunch of guys strapped upside down and bleeding out in some sort of ritual where the Sardaukar fighters get smeared with blood on their faces before battle. At least that’s what it looked like to me.
 
Posts: 2571 | Location: South FL | Registered: February 09, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Casuistic Thinker and Daoist
Picture of 9mmepiphany
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by konata88:
BTW, what's up with the blood letting sacrifices? Seems rather ritual for a space faring race.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the throat singing scene set on Salusa Secundus.

The Sardaukar troops are being anointed with the blood of their failed candidates...there was a 60% failure rate...you see their shaman walking among them marking them with the blood.

For the Sardaukar, killing was their religion. All religions have their rituals, no matter how advanced they become. You also have to remember that Dune is set in a time where society had reverted to feudalism




No, Daoism isn't a religion



 
Posts: 13746 | Location: northern california | Registered: February 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Little ray
of sunshine
Picture of jhe888
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by konata88:


Thanks JHE - seems like I don't need to watch part 2 now. Smile


My spoilers aren't complete, not even close. They are more like hints. Stay tuned.




The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything.
 
Posts: 50583 | Location: Texas | Registered: February 10, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Purveyor of
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Picture of Orguss
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Orguss:
I'm of the opinion that the heighliner isn't an actual carrier but a mobile space bridge. In the scene where the Reverend Mother visits Caladan, her ship passes through the heighliner and there's a planet visible through the ship that isn't visible above the dorsal part.

Partially confirmed:


https://youtu.be/JtkYObkzcpY



"I'm yet another resource-consuming kid in an overpopulated planet raised to an alarming extent by Hollywood and Madison Avenue, poised with my cynical and alienated peers to take over the world when you're old and weak!" - Calvin, "Calvin & Hobbes"
 
Posts: 17298 | Location: Sonoma County, CA | Registered: April 09, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Charmingly unsophisticated
Picture of AllenInWV
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I think they are both. I mean a portal or stargate is a permanent structure. Why can't, for example, the Atreides fleet enter a Heighliner on Caladan, be tucked away in a corner, then the Navigator(s) do their thing and "travel" to Arrakis? I'm trying to recall if the book mentions it taking a period of time but even if it does, the Heighliner's engine "folds space" so it kinda makes some sense that the "off ramp" to the Heighliner appears above both Caladan and Arrakis. Maybe it takes a bit for the Navigator(s) to do their computations and the engine to spool up, during which time the "cargo" has to be inside the ship. Once complete, they exit.


_______________________________

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose."
- Jim Elliot
 
Posts: 15933 | Location: Cross Lanes, WV | Registered: February 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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