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W07VH5 |
I’m in for a kickstarter if it doesn’t. | |||
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Member |
Sitting in the IMAX right now…  "If you’re a leader, you lead the way. Not just on the easy ones; you take the tough ones too…” – MAJ Richard D. Winters (1918-2011), E Company, 2nd Battalion, 506th Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil... Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel." - Isaiah 5:20,24 | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
Even with 2 films, they don't have enough time to cram in all of the details and explanations from the densely complex 650 page original book. Corners have to be cut somewhere. Plus, the average modern viewer doesn't do well with plodding exposition. This film is already teetering on the edge of being 'too boring' for a decent chunk of the audience. I think they've done a good job of threading the needle, putting in just enough so that most viewers can grasp the basics (and Dune fans can pick up the deeper hints/details), while not bogging it down with excess explanations. The average viewer may not know all the details about Mentats, for example, but they can quickly ascertain just in passing that "those guys with the black lips are smarter than the average bear and can do complex calculations in their heads when their eyes glaze over", even without any overt explanation. | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Agreed. As I noted: It's been many, many moons since I read the books, but I recognized much of what I saw. I did have to stop the film a couple times to expand upon something for my wife. If we have the Dune Trilogy on the bookshelves I may read it again. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine  |
The Bautista character, Beast Rabban, isn't all that important. He is merely a tool of the Baron Harkonnen. He is kind of a stock character - the cruel overlord. SPOILERS: Kynes is the Imperial Planetologist who has "gone Fremen." She is important, even though now dead, because she united the Fremen under a vision of what Arrakis could be. Her importance happens before the story starts. She also made scientific discoveries about the spice which are critical. Doctor Yueh is important in that he arranged for the shields to be brought down. He didn't merely betray the Duke Leto personally, he gave the Harkonnens access. Also, and this is more from the book - the Atreides and the Harkonnens were engaged in what they call "kanly," a sort of formalized and ritualized feud. Turning a trusted insider like Yueh - even defeating his conditioning as a doctor against harming any person - and using him to kill the Duke and betray the whole Atreides line would be an especially artful way to prevail in kanly. Of course, Yueh partly spoils it by using the Duke as a weapon of his own.This message has been edited. Last edited by: jhe888, The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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Member |
I see. Thanks. Illuminating. I think from the movie version and not being familiar w/ the book, I have a perspective. But knowing some of the background of the book and the kanly concept, makes the turn a little more meaningful. Still, not having read the books (and no intention at this point), and going by what is shown in the movie version, Yueh seems incidental to me. And what an idiot - I feel sorry for his wife but he should have known she would die, that he would die, and that thousands of righteous people would die. If he believed that it was inevitable anyway, that's one thing. (and I still would have decided to oppose the Imperial side). But if he was really the key to a successful battle by the Imperial side, then what an idiot; his traitorous actions benefit nothing and he should have foreseen that. All the more a hateful character. Not just a traitor, but an idiot traitor. "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Member |
Part 2 was announced as a go by Legendary today. Now we will just have to wait a couple years. "You know, Scotland has its own martial arts. Yeah, it's called Fuck You. It's mostly just head butting and then kicking people when they're on the ground." - Charlie MacKenzie (Mike Myers in "So I Married an Axe Murderer") | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
Part 2's release date is set for October 20, 2023 | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
I think Yueh knew that his wife and he wouldn't survive. He didn't know that she was already dead and thought that the Harkonnens continued to hold and torture her. He hoped to end her suffering with death. He is still a traitor, of course. And maybe a fool. As to the shields, they have to come down. With them up, the Harkonnens can't get in. You can't use lasguns against shields as the two interact in a mutually destructive explosion. As the movie explained, fast moving things can't get through a shield, only things moving very slowly, which is why sword fighting is now a thing again. The noble families have atomic weapons, which could defeat a shield, but the fear of mutually assured destruction and retaliation from the other noble houses serves as an almost unbreachable deterrent to atomic attack. So the Atriedes shields have to come down. I understand that some other agent could have disabled them, but Yueh is the ultimate insider. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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| I swear I had something for this |
If you don't want to read the book (which despite the slow start is still excellent), there's the Sci-Fi Channel Mini Series in 2000 that spilts the novel into three parts that does the most effective job of bringing the novel to the screen. There's parts where the low budget shows, but it and the follow up Children of Dune miniseries scretch their budgets about as far as they can be and still be great. But the part you aren't getting is the nature of the Suk Doctors. A Suk doctor killing any human by action or inaction is as impossible as you laptop growing arms and legs and shooting you in the face with a revolver. They're an independant group to keep assassins from posing as doctors to kill others in the Great Houses. Unlike Alec Baldwin, this was impossible. It and Lady Jessica's choice of bearing a son (Bene Gesserit have that level of control) are what leads to the Golden Path of humanity. This is much more than a little boy getting revenge on those that killed his dad. | |||
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Member |
I hope we all make it until then. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Member |
The spice must flow! "You know, Scotland has its own martial arts. Yeah, it's called Fuck You. It's mostly just head butting and then kicking people when they're on the ground." - Charlie MacKenzie (Mike Myers in "So I Married an Axe Murderer") | |||
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| The Quiet Man |
Yueh suspected his wife was dead, but he had to be positive. The Baron's twisting of Yueh into a traitor is a huge plot point that doesn't really get acknowledged in the new film. Yueh is a product of Imperial Conditioning and as such is supposedly psychologically incapable of betrayal (thus trustworthy enough to provide care to the Emperor himself). Yueh is the only known case of such conditioning being broken. The fact that Yueh's wife was Bene Geserit, and likely had her own hooks into his psyche, almost certainly aided in twisting him. The use of atomics against humans (a subtle but important distinction in the Accords) is so abhorrent that not even the Harkonnens consider it as viable. Result of such an attack would be the complete atomic annihilation of the attackers' home world by the Emperor and the other Great Houses. I hated the changes they made to Kynes. There was no reason for the gender swap and they did nothing with it. The change in how Kynes dies weakens it from poetic tragedy into a cheap action movie trope. My biggest gripe is turning Thufir Hawat, one of the most dangerous men in the Imperium, into "weird guy with umbrella that does math" and all but forgetting Piter de Vries exists. He doesn't even get named in the film. Thufir has a pretty important story arc throughout the book. I'm witholding my final opinion on the movie until it is finished (Part 2 is a go for 2023), but despite some reservations I'm fairly pleased with it. Who's playing Feyd? There's going to be Feyd right? We aren't combining Feyd and Beast Rabban I hope. | |||
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| Little ray of sunshine |
Yes, these are details that were lost in the movie. I don't mind making Keynes a woman (although there is no shortage of dynamic women characters in the story), but the changing the way Kynes dies isn't a change I would have made. I also agree that I miss all the story and intrigue around Hawat (and deVries) but I think choices like that have to be made. You are right, it could be argued that Hawat is a more important character at this part of the story than Gurney Halleck. But the omissions and changes, for the most part have been acceptable. I think they have to do some of that or we end up with a movie that is too long, even if broken into two pieces. You lose some subtlety, such as the importance of Yueh's conditioning, and even some story pieces, but that is inevitable in a movie adapted from such a dense book. I am happy. There are things I miss, but so far there have been no silly changes like the Radagast rabbit sled in LOTR. The fish is mute, expressionless. The fish doesn't think because the fish knows everything. | |||
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Member |
I haven't sat down to watch the movie yet, but my memory of the overall series of books is that in terms of Paul's relationships and their impact on his overall story arc, Thufir Hawat is one of the most important - if not THE most important - non-family figures in the first part of Dune but that Gurney Halleck and Duncan Idaho become more significant later. I've read all the books (at least the original ones, not all the recent additions) a number of times but it has been a long time since the last time I read any of them. Maybe it's time again.This message has been edited. Last edited by: maladat, | |||
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| Protect Your Nuts |
I thought the movie was excellent. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "deserves" ain't got nothin to do with it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ | |||
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| W07VH5 |
I never pictured "coffee service" in that way.  | |||
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| bigger government = smaller citizen  |
I've seen it a few times now. I really like how the director tells the story. I really appreciate that he doesn't hit you over the head about anything. Even the spacing guild stuff was muted a bit and I was okay with that. Sure, there are a few things I'd have changed, like Duncan leaving early. The reunion would have had more impact if he had been gone longer and maybe lost a little weight. (I don't remember the book's time period that passes) A few other nit-picks but they're minor. Great movie. Great story. Great adaptation, IMO. “The urge to save humanity is almost always only a false-face for the urge to rule it.”—H.L. Mencken | |||
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| Fighting the good fight |
It's never specified. But the withdrawal of the Harkonnens, arrival of the Atriedes, and Harkonnen assault on Arrakis all takes place over the span of about a year: 10190-10191. So it's safe to assume that Duncan would have been with the Fremen for less than a year. | |||
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| Member |
I want to watch it one more time so it’s imprinted for me for the sequel. But I refuse to watch it on that streaming pile service with all that compression. Will wait for the 4k disc release that may even go on sale (and for me able to rent) right before Christmas. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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