P320 Drop Safety in Question (Formerly DPD Recall thread)

BBMW

Big Stack

posted

I'd like to see someone with the resources to do this correctly repeat this test with equivalent striker guns from several brands (lets say a G19, M&P, Ruger American, CZ P10C, PPQ, Springfield XD, etc.) and see how they all do.

One of the claims about modern pistols is that they should be drop safe. At least for the P320, this has been called into question. I think this needs to be put to bed one way or another for all the major brands.

Posts: 21240 | Registered: November 05, 2003

Ignored post by BBMW posted

Pale Horse

Leatherneck

posted

quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I'd like to see someone with the resources to do this correctly repeat this test with equivalent striker guns from several brands (lets say a G19, M&P, Ruger American, CZ P10C, PPQ, Springfield XD, etc.) and see how they all do.

One of the claims about modern pistols is that they should be drop safe. At least for the P320, this has been called into question. I think this needs to be put to bed one way or another for all the major brands.

Already been done with the Glock

https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...440035824#3440035824

I am sure that hundreds of Glocks have hit the pavement in the last 24 hours. Enough people hate Glock that I am sure they couldn't wait to drop one praying it would go off. If Glock had this same issue videos would be everywhere by now. But the little trigger tab prevents the Glock from failing in the same way the Sig is.

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014

Posts: 15286 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008

Ignored post by Pale Horse posted

mrw

I don't know man I
just got here myself
Picture of mrw

posted

I just watched another video of a P320 FS firing when dropped from firing position. Fired after the 3rd or 4th drop. I use my P320 FS for competition only and I will be bringing a second pistol to this weekends match as backup. Based on how this issue is flaming out of control I kind of expect a hot shit SO to tell me I can't run a P320 for safety reasons.

mrw

Hand Made Custom Knives
www.sandownforge.com

Posts: 1750 | Location: Gulf Coast Florida | Registered: June 29, 2005

Ignored post by mrw posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by BBMW:
I'd like to see someone with the resources to do this correctly repeat this test with equivalent striker guns from several brands (lets say a G19, M&P, Ruger American, CZ P10C, PPQ, Springfield XD, etc.) and see how they all do.

One of the claims about modern pistols is that they should be drop safe. At least for the P320, this has been called into question. I think this needs to be put to bed one way or another for all the major brands.

Someone on the Pistolforum thread tested the P320 and the G19. And the P320 failed and the G19 passed.

I agree with you. This type of testing is FAAAR more valuable to me than the "torture" tests we see so frequently on the web.

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

az4783054

Member

posted

I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Unscrupulous lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action. "Perception is subjective", ain't that the truth.

Pelosi is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

If people would mind their own damn business this country would be better off. I owe no one an explanation or an apology for my personal opinion.

Posts: 11205 | Location: Somewhere north of a hot humid hell in the summer | Registered: January 09, 2009

Ignored post by az4783054 posted

Member

posted

And if there were a single video, I'd 100% agree with you. However in the last 24 hours, I've seen three independent youtube videos all created within the last 24 hours all showing the EXACT same scenario. Furthermore, I've read accounts on Pistol Forum of someone testing for themselves (no video on that one).

So either all four of these sources are in collusion to produce the biggest hoax in the history of the gun world... or there is a genuine issue.

quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action.

Congress is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

Pale Horse

Leatherneck

posted

quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action.

Pelosi is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

What is more likely? That there is a drop safety issue with the Sig P320? Or that there is some vast conspiracy against Sig that has encouraged several individuals and two companies (with a lot to lose if found out they were fabricating evidence) to create and release manipulated video showing a faked firing of a Sig when dropped?

Usually the simplest answer is probably the correct one.

“Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014

Posts: 15286 | Location: Florida | Registered: May 07, 2008

Ignored post by Pale Horse posted

saigonsmuggler

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action.

Pelosi is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

What is more likely? That there is a drop safety issue with the Sig P320? Or that there is some vast conspiracy against Sig that has encouraged several individuals and two companies (with a lot to lose if found out they were fabricating evidence) to create and release manipulated video showing a faked firing of a Sig when dropped?

Usually the simplest answer is probably the correct one.

^^^^ Occam's razor and all that.

Posts: 1814 | Location: Austin TX | Registered: October 30, 2003

Ignored post by saigonsmuggler posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
In the internet/forum world, an issue like this can seem huge. I wonder how much situations like this penetrate the shooting community that isn't online?

Will IDPA ROs be banning the P320 from competition? Or ranges (indoor ranges seem like a really easy place for a loaded gun to get knocked off a shelf and land on concrete)? Or will the fire remain online and the majority of P320 recalls get handled with a postcard?

On those PF drops - did you all notice the thing with the PELT trigger shoe making drop firing more likely? That certainly lends credence to the trigger mass theory.

Wow, things happen fast. Searching for "PELT trigger shoe" on Google yields this video as the first result: https://www.youtube.com/embed/...Cp2Rvhc?wmode=opaque
Ouch. I feel bad for Bruce and hope he comes out of this whole kerfuffle ok.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: lordhamster,

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

ScopeX5

Member

posted

So then is it fair to say that GGI and Apex are selling unsafe triggers as of right this moment? If indeed a trigger tab is needed, what does this mean for our aftermarket triggers?

Posts: 33 | Registered: August 04, 2017

Ignored post by ScopeX5 posted

9mmdude

Glock Junkie

posted

quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Unscrupulous lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action. "Perception is subjective", ain't that the truth.

Pelosi is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

Look at the videos posted in thread #344. Multiple drops on rubber and BOOM! It appears genuine to me.

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...safety-issues/page35

Posts: 338 | Location: USA | Registered: February 26, 2002

Ignored post by 9mmdude posted

drabfour

Gloom, despair and
agony on me.
Picture of drabfour

posted

quote:
Originally posted by lordhamster:
quote:
Originally posted by RX-79G:
In the internet/forum world, an issue like this can seem huge. I wonder how much situations like this penetrate the shooting community that isn't online?

Will IDPA ROs be banning the P320 from competition? Or ranges (indoor ranges seem like a really easy place for a loaded gun to get knocked off a shelf and land on concrete)? Or will the fire remain online and the majority of P320 recalls get handled with a postcard?

On those PF drops - did you all notice the thing with the PELT trigger shoe making drop firing more likely? That certainly lends credence to the trigger mass theory.

Wow, things happen first. Searching for PELT trigger shoe on Google yields this video as the first result: https://www.youtube.com/embed/...Cp2Rvhc?wmode=opaque
Ouch. I feel bad for Bruce and hope he comes out of this whole kerfuffle ok.

Hard to tell but it looked like that guy was throwing it not just dropping it.

Posts: 5022 | Location: Texas | Registered: July 22, 2008

Ignored post by drabfour posted

9mmdude

Glock Junkie

posted

He was just dropping it. Here is the video in post #344

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...safety-issues/page35

Posts: 338 | Location: USA | Registered: February 26, 2002

Ignored post by 9mmdude posted

drabfour

Gloom, despair and
agony on me.
Picture of drabfour

posted

Yeah that's the same group of videos I watched just going off the shadows on the mat since you can't see his arms.

Posts: 5022 | Location: Texas | Registered: July 22, 2008

Ignored post by drabfour posted

comet24

Just for the
hell of it
Picture of comet24

posted

quote:
Originally posted by ScopeX5:
So then is it fair to say that GGI and Apex are selling unsafe triggers as of right this moment? If indeed a trigger tab is needed, what does this mean for our aftermarket triggers?

So this is your first post here. Good job you've managed to insult two respected custom shops.

While there may be a problem with the gun not sure I would make the jump from the manufactory to these shops.

Foolish

_____________________________________

Because in the end, you won’t remember the time you spent working in the office or mowing your lawn. Climb that goddamn mountain. Jack Kerouac

Posts: 16476 | Registered: March 27, 2004

Ignored post by comet24 posted

wolffy88

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by drabfour:
Yeah that's the same group of videos I watched just going off the shadows on the mat since you can't see his arms.

Even if he was throwing it, the Omaha Outdoors tester posted proof that he was simply dropping his test gun. It is somewhere back a few pages.

-wolff

"In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm

Posts: 2103 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: December 25, 2008

Ignored post by wolffy88 posted

Member

posted

quote:
Originally posted by wolffy88:
quote:
Originally posted by drabfour:
Yeah that's the same group of videos I watched just going off the shadows on the mat since you can't see his arms.

Even if he was throwing it, the Omaha Outdoors tester posted proof that he was simply dropping his test gun. It is somewhere back a few pages.

The Omaha Tester's wide angle shot clearly shows a simple drop, the TTAG videos is clearly a drop. Based on the shadows in this video it looks like he holds it still and just drops it, I can't say. But 2/3 testing videos are 100% simple drops from ~4ft

Posts: 331 | Location: OH | Registered: September 10, 2012

Ignored post by lordhamster posted

RHINOWSO

Go ahead punk, make my day

posted

quote:
Originally posted by az4783054:
I've just gotta think that somewhere there's a group of "film makers" that are laughing their butts off at all this (think Bigfoot sightings).

A video was made...and we all know that video cannot be manipulated...and it's convinced thousands of gun enthusiasts that the P320 may be the demise of SIG, maybe other manufacturers. Unscrupulous lawyers are waiting to sign up clients for a class action. "Perception is subjective", ain't that the truth.

Pelosi is probably chomping at the bits to enact legislation...

Probably the same studio where they faked the Apollo Moon Landings.

Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008

Ignored post by RHINOWSO posted

RHINOWSO

Go ahead punk, make my day

posted

quote:
Originally posted by drabfour:
Hard to tell but it looked like that guy was throwing it not just dropping it.

Nah, that's what a modern service pistol dropped from about 4' looks like.

I mean, aside from it discharging regularly.

Posts: 45798 | Registered: July 12, 2008

Ignored post by RHINOWSO posted