I've said before that an un-safteyed 320 is like a DA/SA pistol in SA mode. It's an accident waiting to happen.

To claim it's simply user error is more than a little push. Yes, absolutely immaculate handling skills would technically prevent a discharge, but is it realistic to assume this in the real world?

Sig is sadly just resorting to CYA by not implementing a simple fix that already exists, namely a manual safety that is on all mil versions. Alternately, add a trigger-tab safety. But either one would be a tacit admission of culpability.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:
Has anyone tried to figure out why it isn’t happening to the P365?

Or basically every other striker gun.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I've said before that an un-safteyed 320 is like a DA/SA pistol in SA mode. It's an accident waiting to happen.

To claim it's simply user error is more than a little push. Yes, absolutely immaculate handling skills would technically prevent a discharge, but is it realistic to assume this in the real world?

Sig is sadly just resorting to CYA by not implementing a simple fix that already exists, namely a manual safety that is on all mil versions. Alternately, add a trigger-tab safety. But either one would be a tacit admission of culpability.

Every striker fire gun that I can think of EXCEPT for Glock and clones is operating from a cocked striker. Now, with the exception of the 365, I think they all have a tabbed or hinged trigger, so that's something, but we're not hearing about these issues on the 365 and I don't know how it accounts for the in holster discharges that are supposedly occurring.

The action also likely does not account for the out of battery detonation issues.

quote:

we're not hearing about these issues on the 365

That's a valid question. Could it be that the 365 doesn't have the same duty exposure as a full-size pistol? Or even that the 365 isn't as high-profile as the mil-spec 320, which also has the drop-safety history?

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:
Has anyone tried to figure out why it isn’t happening to the P365?

I've heard of a couple of P365 NDs from an agency in our state that issues them as backups. I don't know all the details, but rumor is that in at least one of the cases the trigger was snagged on re-holstering. They do happen, it just doesn't get as much press as the P320 NDs for some reason.

I agree that a trigger dingus would likely have helped prevent any of the NDs caused by lateral pressure on the trigger, but I contend that those types of discharges are ultimately the responsibility of the operator who has a duty to protect the trigger from incursions. If you allow your trigger to get snagged and get saved by the trigger dingus you still screwed up, just with a more fortuitous outcome.

It's the idea of truly un-commanded discharges that scares me. I have seen nothing personally to indicate that this can happen, and I have been carrying a P320 for almost 8 years now, and have thousands of rounds through them. But my experience is limited to me, and I definitely haven't seen everything. There are millions of these guns out there and it's entirely within the realm of possibility that there is an issue, and if there is I want it corrected. A gun that goes off without any trigger input is a real problem, but you have to be able to demonstrate a.) that it's actually happening and b.) how it's happening to identify and correct the problem. Until somebody comes forward with that information there's not going to be a constructive solution to this issue if it's even an issue at all.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

Honestly I do think the P320 is tainted fruit so to speak and I think that’s why we keep seeing bigger P365s almost to sort of maybe work up to a duty P365 and slowly let the P320 name fade out.

I sometimes feel like that is exactly what Sig Sauer is up to with the larger and larger versions of the P365. Sig did a great job in so many ways with the P365. I currently have a P365x with a Wilson Combat frame and love the way it feels and shoots. With that said, I personally don't feel like any of the P365 variants are duty grade.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
I get all that and totally agree, except for the last sentence, "Today, for SIG SAUER - it ends". What does that even mean? What is SIG going to do?

They're mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore, I guess?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I agree that for the P320 to discharge, the trigger must be pressed.

What is your take on the shooting in a precinct where the cop had it in a Safariland with tourniquet mounted in front? Lots of these cases can be hand-waved to misuse, but that one is pretty clear.

You're the one with questions about it. You tell me what you think happened.

I don’t think the trigger was pulled. There are failure modes theorized on youtube, but I don’t have a 320 to see how realistic they are.

Was that the one with suspect wrestling? That gun had a light and looked to be in a “gun bucket” holster so to speak THAT ONE I do think something foreign may have gotten in there and pulled the trigger.


The others where they literally just seem to magically go off when simple movements are made I don’t know. Part of me immediately goes to a bad run of or simply cheaply made sears/sear parts etc. but what about the FPBS, that would have to be failing as well and that seems unlikely (I am not real familiar with the 320 nor am I anything remotely educated as far as firearms engineering goes). I mean striker fired pistols drop strikers all the time (relatively speaking) with impacts, failures etc. and they rarely if ever fire because of that firing pin block. So it seems the SIG would have to have both failures simultaneously to discharge, which leads me back to the trigger itself (or at least some aspect of it) is pulling/actuating.

I just know that the P320 issues, the P365 issues (not as severe but there) and SIGs really poor handling of it all has made me stay far away from SIG. Shame because the 320 shoots well and I do like the 320 x/xl and Macro. There was a time where I would buy or suggest SIG without a thought because barring something really out of the ordinary you were getting military grade lifetime gear. Now I won’t suggest a SIG product to anybody and I find that a little sad.

I love Sig Sauer. The P365 X-Macro is my favorite handgun EVER!



However there is just to much going on with the P320 since its recent introduction in 2014. Some that is even on video. I don't have confidence in it.

My oldest son is a fairly recent concealed carry guy. We discussed hammer fired DA/SA pistols, and striker fired pistols.
We did a range day and fired a huge selection of my handguns. He really liked my SIG P210A TGT, and my old school SIG Mastershop P226 X5 Short and Smart, and the Dan Wesson Pointman 9 1911.
We discussed all the various options and choices.
He started out with some flavor of Glock, and within a year or so, the Glock was gone and he had both, a P320, and a P365.
Both of his are equipped with a manual safety.

I have a 365X Macro for CCW, but I did get it with a thumb safety, so I carry it cocked and locked. As far as the full size 320 goes, I have other pistols that i would rather own; 226 XFive, H&K USP, H&K VP9, H&K P30, etc. I have never had an issue with any of them.

I installed this:

https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/...-trigger-black-gold/

And got back to what I was doing.

Why did Sig wait so long to come out with this type of response? This issue has been going on for a few years now hasn’t it?

quote:

Originally posted by techguy:
Why did Sig wait so long to come out with this type of response? This issue has been going on for a few years now hasn’t it?

This type of response won't change a thing. People will still jump on the bandwagon and sue them. Don't know what message "Today, for SIG SAUER - it ends." is even supposed to convey, but it sounds really stupid. What "ends"? If they are trying to sound cool and catchy like To Hell and Back Reliability, it's not working.

On one hand, you have videos of holstered P320s apparently going off by themselves without a hand anywhere near them.

On the other hand, with a big jackpot given Sig Sauer’s position on the P320 issue, you’d think there would have been lawyers paying engineers to figure out what is making the P320 unsafe by itself. And it’s been a couple of years now, right? If it’s unsafe, then some hungry lawyer and sharp engineer could have shown it by now.

And I’m not convinced either way.

Saw this on X today

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

Don't know what message "Today, for SIG SAUER - it ends." is even supposed to convey, but it sounds really stupid. What "ends"?

It means someone from Sig will be coming to whip your ass. How Big'A Boy Are Ya?

Has anybody left one loaded in a secure box and Waited to see how long until it goes off by itself ? Just check daily it for weeks /days / months ? Is it only happened with 9mm has it happened with a 40/357 conversion or a 45/10 size frame ?

My 320x is a range gun. Too big to ccw for my taste. I’m not keen on keeping guns cocked and loaded in my safe or bedside, I will leave a gun with full mag empty chamber or a revolver fully loaded. The only auto I typically ccw is a 365 and I feel confident carrying it hot and it’s got no manual safety