https://x.com/sigsauerinc/status/1898099442172989921

I get all that and totally agree, except for the last sentence, "Today, for SIG SAUER - it ends". What does that even mean? What is SIG going to do?

This is not being received well on Instagram. I can’t imagine it’s much better on X.

Maybe they will stop rolling with the BS in court and start to justifiably sue for slander and defamation?

The best way to keep a screwball from bringing you in to the legal system would be to keep them in the legal system.

They were always drop safe as well, right? SIG pinky promised that they were, despite finding out it wasn’t in the trials. If you believe them now after the drop safe lies you are a sucker.

Odd comment.

That just feels “desperate”. It just seems SIG has cut tons of corners over the last decade or two and it’s been biting them. Not just the 320 discharges but the rust issues on guns and mags the various issues that the military seems to have seen very early on.

I am not sure how I would turn the PR ship around at this point but I don’t think it would be this.

Like everything thing in life the truth lies in the gray/middle. I don’t think SIG completely sucks but they aren’t the company I wish they were.

I agree that for the P320 to discharge, the trigger must be pressed.

Based upon video and descriptions of these instances, while some of these instances appear to be cases of human error, in other instances the trigger is being pressed or pushed without a human hand near the pistol.

Therefore, once again, I am suggesting the following:



If a person places their finger on the trigger and presses the trigger, a safety blade (or tab) will not prevent discharge, but it is glaringly apparent to me, ignorant, uninformed layman that I am, SIG-Sauer should introduce this feature to the P320 safety system, for the very same reasons Glock and other designs incorporate this feature, and it is not "to prevent inertial discharge" as some claim.

However, doing so at this point would be, essentially, acknowledgement that this safety feature should have been there from the start.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I agree that for the P320 to discharge, the trigger must be pressed.

Based upon video and descriptions of these instances, while some of these instances appear to be cases of human error, in other instances the trigger is being pressed or pushed without a human hand near the pistol.

Therefore, once again, I am suggesting the following:



If a person places their finger on the trigger and presses the trigger, a safety blade (or tab) will not prevent discharge, but it is glaringly apparent to me, ignorant, uninformed layman that I am, SIG-Sauer should introduce this feature to the P320 safety system.

However, doing so at this point would be ,essentially, acknowledgement that this safety feature should have been there from the start.

This.

But it’s easier, I guess, to threaten legal action than to admit one was wrong.

“Voluntary upgrade program”, my nose.

The dingus should have been there from the start absolutely. The only way I think they could spin it is by another “voluntary upgrade”.

“Even though our handguns are completely safe we as a company want to do everything we can blah blah to make you our customer feel safe blah blah number one priority so if you so desire send in your 320 and we will swap your trigger for a dingus model. Change letterhead tweak script send to LE departments.

That puts the ball in the end users court. We offered an EXTRA layer of safety. If they didn’t take advantage of it and their handling or training issues caused a problem …… not our fault we did all we could.

Honestly I do think the P320 is tainted fruit so to speak and I think that’s why we keep seeing bigger P365s almost to sort of maybe work up to a duty P365 and slowly let the P320 name fade out.

quote:

Originally posted by Voshterkoff:
They were always drop safe as well, right? SIG pinky promised that they were, despite finding out it wasn’t in the trials. If you believe them now after the drop safe lies you are a sucker.

The drop safety issue was demonstrable and mechanically repeatable. To date these new allegations are not.

I don't know all the details about what they knew and didn't know before the "voluntary upgrade", but I do know that once it was announced Sig took care of us as a department and me as an individual. It was a very simple and straightforward process that didn't cost me a dime. They screwed up and then took responsibility and fixed it....we're all good on that one so far as I'm concerned.

I'm not a huge fan of the marketing company that Sig has become, but I think that if there was really a design problem with the P320 that allowed it to fire without a trigger pull somebody would have found it and demonstrated it by now. There's enough incentive just in YouTube fame alone to motivate somebody to blow the whistle. If there really is a problem, I wish somebody would identify it and show us what it is. But so far nobody has done that and all the hollow allegations without proof are just fanning internet rumor and further obscuring the truth.

There are documented instances of these going off in police holsters when there weren’t hands near the guns or the triggers. I’m sorry but these are marketed as law enforcement duty guns and military guns. Even if the trigger was somehow inadvertently moved, WHILE IT WAS INSIDE A POLICE LEVEL 3 DUTY HOLSTER, the mechanism should not be so unforgiving that it can fire. Again, not if it’s marketed as a police duty gun. That reeks of negligence, if not in design than certainly in marketing. It also seems odd that there are enough differences in the design of the P365 that this doesn’t seem to be happening with those pistols, even though they are very similar in design and the 365 is usually carried in holsters that are much smaller, less robust, and cover less of the firearm than the duty holsters that some of the P320s that unexpectedly discharged were carried in. Ultimately this response on SIG’s part further diminishes my respect for the company, and I didn’t have nearly as much respect for SIG as a company as I used to. This is clearly NOT the same “To Hell and back reliability” company that made products that I fell in love with over 20 years ago.

Good for SIG and i agree. I will say however that in my opinion the P320 is more prone to negligent discharges when less than fastidious safe gun handling which includes careful visual inspection of inside of holster before and during holstering and using holsters that are damaged, poor quality/design, and not specifically designed for the P320.

Has anyone tried to figure out why it isn’t happening to the P365?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
However, doing so at this point would be, essentially, acknowledgement that this safety feature should have been there from the start.

I’m somewhat surprised they haven’t tried a “sneakier” way of adding a trigger safety, like for example some small mechanism just behind the trigger shoe itself, so that it looks almost the same externally (instead of having an obvious blade).

Sad Sig is having such problems.

Start releasing the P series again. Hell, make the frame plastic to get the price down and keep the uppers the same as the original P-series.

I know these days no one wants a double action and they may be a hard sell but I am noticing an increase of folks interested in the "old" double action design.

Revolvers are making a comeback and everyone wants a wonder nine again so stranger things have happened.

quote:

Originally posted by highroundcount:
Sad Sig is having such problems.

Start releasing the P series again. Hell, make the frame plastic to get the price down and keep the uppers the same as the original P-series.

SIG still sells the SP2022 and great reviews everywhere, I own one myself. There just isn't much demand anymore for DA/SA pistols as vast majority of pistol shooters just prefer simplicity of striker fired action plus pistols of that design are more compact, lighter, and less expensive.

I will wildly speculate that Sig wanted the success of a Glock style striker trigger, without actually copying Glocks trigger safety. The other safety option was the way Springfield went with the XD, a grip safety. But that would have possibly complicated the innovation of modularity which Sig touted. Sig wanted their own design and tried to engineer an internal safety that they could claim was unique and all their own.
My only 320 is a manual safety model and any others I may buy will be manual safety too. The military model 320s? Manual safety.

So I am just a simple gun guy.
What's the trigger pull weight on a P320 standard model? One not equipped with a safety.

5 to 6 pounds?

There are plenty of crude/entry level 1911's with the same trigger pull weight.

If you told me to grind off the thumb shelf on the 1911 manual safety so it could no longer be manipulated, and then move the manual safety stub to the fire position, while
also taking a roll of black electrical tape and depressing the grip safety/taping it
down in the squeezed grip/firing position, and then someone told me to stick
that modified 1911 in a holster and carry it around all day, I would likely tell them
to stick that 1911 in their ass!

So what is the real difference between the above modified 1911 and a stock duty P320?

I don't own a P320 or P365. And likely never will.
And just so you don't think I'm a P320/P365 hater, I'm not.

I also don't own or shoot
Glock, S&W, Springfield, Walther or any other modern striker fired service pistols.

I will continue with the DA/SA platform from multiple different manufacturers for
serious business/social work pistols & revolvers.
I also highly appreciate lightweight single action only
trigger pull weights on specialized handguns, hunting, competition, target shooting.
I'm old enough and wise enough to use them for their specialized usage purposes.

It's me that has to be satisfied with a particular handgun model's perceived safety.
My money, my choice, my threshold for perceived safety.

I agree with Para, if it only had a trigger "dingus" from day one.
Unfortunately, day one is long past.

For me, the absolutely most important things when carrying a handgun for any purpose,
is not to shoot myself, not shoot someone I care about, or have a negligent discharge.

Decades ago, I personally witnessed a Sheriff's Deputy/Corrections guy holster his issued
service pistol after completing a high speed action shooting course of fire.

Unfortunately for him, his index finger was still inside the trigger guard when he
re-holstered. The pistol discharged and he was immediately given first aid.

The initial assessment was a grazing wound, but later that evening his leg swelled up,
turned purple, and off to the ER. The projectile was eventually found down in the
general vicinity of his ankle with an X-ray.
It went under the skin at the muzzle of the holster,
and stayed under the skin along the path down to near the ankle.

Multiple surgeries, long term disability, never worked again.
FYI: Glock
Absolutely, the Deputy/Corrections guy made a mistake. But paid an enormous cost.

I place my thumb on top of the hammer when I re-holster a DA/SA pistol or revolver.
So far, I haven't felt the hammer move rearward while re-holstering.

Stacking tolerances or just one part way out of spec causing an extremely poor precarious sear engagement would be my guess?

I think I posted about watching one go off when its owner reached out to pick it up off a table. He couldn't have inadvertently pulled the trigger unless it has a <1-lb trigger, he never got a gasp on it.