quote:

Originally posted by P250UA5:
I've held out against the YWBAG thread

But, you still don’t have to.

We live in beautiful times where there are an abundance of really good, seasoned choices. The M&P is 25 years old now. Very reliable with a lot of options. Most, if not all of the fleas it had, have been worked out. Walther has a bunch of good options.

You have the VP9. Springfield has a couple of decent choices. FN has a just ok in my book.

But, times have never been better as far as choices go. But-

The Glock 17 to me is the gold standard.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:
The issue up until recently has been that none of the pistols accused of un-commanded discharges had been found to be defective and investigators were unable to reproduce the failure. This has been Sig's position the entire time, and it has been my position too. When Alec Baldwin's SAA pattern pistol was found not to be able to fire without pulling the trigger, contrary to his claim, we accepted that as proof he pulled the trigger himself.

The FBI report showed that a manual release of the striker without a trigger pull (essentially poking the sear with a stick), after wiggling the slide on the receiver to simulate duty carry, could make the gun in question fire, but also noted it had what appears to be defective and/or non-conforming parts.

This new Air Force incident needs to be investigated and a root cause determined. Until then we have no idea what really happened.

Yes the dominoes are falling. Sig will have to do something, even if it's only adding a tabbed trigger and making the trigger guard wider.

That's not 'entirely' accurate, and a bit misleading as it omits pertinent information re: a subsequent determination that hasn't been widely reported...Likely because it doesn't fit the narrative of those on the bandwagon.

Army’s Sig P320 Derived Pistols Will Remain Unchanged After Concerning FBI Report

https://www.twz.com/land/army-...oncerning-fbi-report

The following quote was snipped from the linked article published by TWZ (The War Zone) on July 17, 2025.

quote:

“Specifically, Sig explained that forcing the sear downward with a punch was moving the trigger bar forward and, as a result, the trigger to the rear since the sear is in constant contact with the trigger bar,” he continued. “Sig Sauer expressed concerns with the FBI’s initial report about how some of the tests were conducted.”

“Specifically, Sig explained that forcing the sear downward with a punch was moving the trigger bar forward and, as a result, the trigger to the rear since the sear is in constant contact with the trigger bar,” he continued. “Sig expressed that this was not a proper representation of the striker slipping off of the sear’s primary notch from a parallel/grip-down drop. Sig also noted that the FBI’s concern of the striker safety spring movement on the striker assembly post after getting hit with a hammer was unwarranted due to the viewing window that was cut into the slide that sacrificed the sidewall support of the striker safety spring.”

“After the initial report was submitted, Sig Sauer and its engineers worked in cooperation with the FBI and Michigan State Police to design a fixture that all agreed would create a more controlled testing protocol for striker/sear slippage,” St. John added. “Using that fixture, the FBI forced the sear off of the primary notch 565 times with 19EA different striker assemblies with zero indents on the primer (no fires).”

quote:

Originally posted by rscalzo:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
<<snip>>
Seems to me that the P365 and P320 lines are the VAST majority of their income. Without the P320, they just might have to file Chapter 11 or something soon unless they have enough income to stay afloat from other products.

Then you have no clue about the financials of the company.

Well duh! I don't work for them or have any real insight into their financials! That's why I said "Seems to me...", implying it was my opinion. How about YOU set the record straight!?!

And just for the record, attitudes like yours from the company is one more reason for me to leave Sig in the rearview mirror. Goodbye and good riddance!

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
<<snip>>
Does Sig have anything else with sufficient sales numbers to ride this one out?

Seems to me that the P365 and P320 lines are the VAST majority of their income. Without the P320, they just might have to file Chapter 11 or something soon unless they have enough income to stay afloat from other products.

SP2022

I wish! I dearly love my SP2022 and wish Sig hadn't discontinued the line.

Edit to add: Sorry Boss, I got distracted by family stuff forgot to go back and combine those two posts! Thanks for doing it for me...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: parabellum,

quote:

The M&P is 25 years old now.

You have no idea how much this statement just bothered me. .

[/QUOTE]You have no idea how much this statement just bothered me. . [/QUOTE]
Same, that can't be right

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:

quote:

The M&P is 25 years old now.

You have no idea how much this statement just bothered me. .

I had serial number 22x off the assembly line when they first came out. It was a turd. I sent it back to S&W and they replaced the barrel and sent it back with a free magazine. I washed my hands of the M&P for a number of years. I ended up buying a 2.0 compact after having a chance to shoot one. They really did a good job with the 2.0.

Wrong thread, gentlemen.

This saddens me, a lot. I'm glad I stuck with the classic P-series sigs, the GSR and a P365.

Very bad management and engineering decisions are killing my favorite pistol brand.

Tony.

Starting to get temp bans in a number of USPSA matches. One of the guys in my shooting group just got this. With the Sig Sauer header and sent through their proprietary match interface Practiscore, it's got some extra zing to it.

Dick Fairburn's followup, as promised. The video is 47 minutes long. I have watched the entire video. You can start viewing the video at the 18 minute mark and I recommend watching it all the way until the end.

Mr. Fairburn offers his observations and opinions on the reasons for the uncommanded discharges, and on SIG-Sauer's reaction to these incidents. He recounts an interesting story about problems with early 40 caliber Glocks and WMLs, and Glock's exemplary customer service. The story is told with a purpose.

SIGforum has been in existence for more than 25 years. We are one of the pioneering firearms discussion forums extant and we are, needless to say, fans of SIG-Sauer firearms, but we are not "fan boys" in the pejorative sense. When problems and issues arise, as they do, inevitably, we tend towards a clinical view of matters.

It gives us no pleasure, what is happening now with SIG and the P320. We wish all of this were not so. We wish, too, that the drop-safe issue had never existed. I say this most sincerely, and having said this, I urge all interested parties to listen to what Mr. Fairburn has to say on matters.

I have been waiting for that video to drop. I tend to like Dick Fairburn and his level headed down to earth insights about most of the things he speaks on.

Wow!
That was very well put together!
As to Sig and their lack of response to this current issue I am reminded of the way they handled the drop safe problem. Seems to be the same imo. Deny deny deny until they can’t then deal with it. As pointed out in the video sadly it will be hard for Sig to recover however they decide to deal with it.

The only thing I would question is his interpretation of "dead trigger"

Excellent video and pretty much everything I have been thinking/saying. Only minor faux Paux was the SIGPro/2040/2009/2022 (whatever it was called out of the gate) was their first polymer pistol and a damn good gun at that.

What amazes me about companies is the tendency for long term destruction of reputation for short term gain. While I doubt this will bankrupt SIG I can guarantee you it will cost them a generation of sales. I mean hell folks are still salty over Bill Ruger and Smith and Wesson and Bill is long dead. Gun folk have long, long, long memories and no matter how much of a turn around SIG has with their future products and service a generation of us may never trust them again.

He lays out a good analysis of the overall problem, and I appreciate him sharing his experience from his agency testing and procurement process, as well as dealing with the Glock 22 WML problem and how Glock addressed it.

The one thing I take exception to (and it's not just him, I've heard this a lot of places recently) is his suggestion that Sig's use of a pre-tensioned striker in the P320 is somehow unique. Pretty much every major striker-fired handgun platform employs a system where the striker stores enough energy to reliably ignite a primer, even Glock. We can split hairs over whether it's "fully-cocked" or not as some of them do add additional tension as part of the trigger press, but IMO that's immaterial if there's enough energy in the regular "ready state" for the striker to ignite a primer. If a pre-tensioned striker as a design element is a safety concern in and of itself, then that criticism should not be limited to just the P320...but other platforms don't seem to be having the same issues so there's obviously more to it than that.

I think that Mr. Fairburn's video captured pretty much everything in a nutshell. I caught his faux paux about the SIG Pro too. Waiting to see what develops from HQ.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by L90814:
Based upon the Air Force incident, the Volusia (FL) Sheriff's Office just banned the P320 from all of its facilities and vehicles.

is there a link for this?

There is no link. It was a memo sent via email. Although VSO does issue Glocks, it allowed many other manufacturer's firearms as backup. The S&W 686 is issued to the Honor Guard for ceremony use. The incident involving the female deputy did not involve the P320 or Glock pistols.

I am out of the 320 game. I consider the 3 guns that I still own are effectively truck/throwaway guns. Short of a Sig sponsored “fix” nobody in their right minds would buy my guns from me.

All that being said I watched that video and struggle to believe that gun was just sitting there with no manipulation and then just happened to fire after the Air Force airman got undressed, used the restroom, and then minutes later it just fired as he got in front of it. We might never know but that’s a lot of Swiss cheese holes lining up.

I’m not dismissing his video but he gets a couple things just plain wrong and then some of it is pure conjecture.

Dead trigger, 320 is pre tensioned and others aren’t, did Sig participate in the FBI stuff or not? I have read both.

I absolutely hate the term “overabundance of caution”. I think it is wildly overused, especially in my business, to justify some very iffy decision making. That said, it is a good use of the term in this case. The 320 is dead. The M17/18 will be dead soon. If Glock was publicly traded I would be building up my position.

What he didn't get wrong is Sig's attitude.

Agree about the fully tensioned striker. Lots use them. Hell the VP9 does and is known under certain impacts to drop its striker, it doesn’t however ignite a round because the safety’s work apparently. I believe it has more to do with poor parts quality, poor QC and possibly a sub par design.

That said it’s less about the gun and far more about SIG’s response. That is what has turned me personally off to them, not the fact that they may have screwed up a product or had a bad run of parts or whatever, it’s the attitude addressing it.