quote:

Originally posted by cheeze:
Hey guys. I tried searching and I can’t read all the posts in this thread due to time constraints. Can you tell me if these problems are prevalent in tbe XTEN as well?

Problems have been speculated, but not proven; therefore, speculating how the speculated problems affect the XTEN would anyone’s guess. But if it helps, the XTEN has not been mentioned as problematic in this thread. I noticed PSA has a few models on clearance though.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It's going to be falling dominoes now.

Does Sig have anything else with sufficient sales numbers to ride this one out?

Seems to me that the P365 and P320 lines are the VAST majority of their income. Without the P320, they just might have to file Chapter 11 or something soon unless they have enough income to stay afloat from other products.

SP2022

quote:

Originally posted by bushmonkey9:
Sig has to Either buy back the pistols, do a mass overhaul/retrofit, or cancel the Whole Line. What's their choice? They can't stay silent over it. They WILL lose money no matter what.

It’s like that hiker whose arm got trapped by a boulder. His choices were to die or amputate his arm off with a knife and live. Sig will either just die as a company or do what’s needed to survive and hopefully rehabilitate their reputation.

I hope someone on their board has the brains to choose the latter.

quote:

Originally posted by cheeze:
Hey guys. I tried searching and I can’t read all the posts in this thread due to time constraints. Can you tell me if these problems are prevalent in tbe XTEN as well?

The XTEN and P320 in .45 are the same design as the 9mm/.40/.357 guns, with a few parts that have some dimensional differences to accommodate the larger cartridge. Logic would dictate that if there's a problem with the design of the regular P320, that same problem exists in the XTEN. However there are far fewer XTENS in the wild, and the ones that are out there are not going to be issued duty pistols, so they're not getting anywhere near the cumulative holster time that the 9mm P320/M17/M18 are. As such, I think we're far less likely to hear of an incident with an XTEN than we are with one of the 9mm guns. But who knows...nobody has even definitively identified the problem yet, and anything could happen.

Wonder if a duplicate of the off patent Glock mechanism could be integrated into an Sig dimension chassis to place in the grip module and a new striker inserted into the slide?

Fairly well written and reasoned editorial coming out of Florida.
https://flvoicenews.com/florid...g-sauer-p320-pistol/

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
The XTEN and P320 in .45 are the same design as the 9mm/.40/.357 guns, with a few parts that have some dimensional differences to accommodate the larger cartridge. Logic would dictate that if there's a problem with the design of the regular P320, that same problem exists in the XTEN. However there are far fewer XTENS in the wild, and the ones that are out there are not going to be issued duty pistols, so they're not getting anywhere near the cumulative holster time that the 9mm P320/M17/M18 are. As such, I think we're far less likely to hear of an incident with an XTEN than we are with one of the 9mm guns. But who knows...nobody has even definitively identified the problem yet, and anything could happen.

I think the only way an XTEN is immune is if the Bruce Gray hypothesis is correct. One of his conditions to create the problem was a 10/45 safety takedown lever being installed in a 9/40/357. Obviously, that's not going to happen in an XTEN. I'm kind of skeptical that this is happening and would certainly be easily diagnosed in the post incident analysis. Sig would deflect blame to the dumbassery of the end user and be in the clear.

In reality, I think the final analysis may be much more boring. A trigger that is simply too touchy for the day to day human error that occurs. As an extreme example, picture an Olympic target rifle trigger on an elk gun that will be used in cold, wet, conditions. It may function absolutely perfectly according to design, but still go off before you have the crosshairs where you want them.

quote:

Originally posted by L90814:
Based upon the Air Force incident, the Volusia (FL) Sheriff's Office just banned the P320 from all of its facilities and vehicles.

is there a link for this?

According to its General Orders Manual, VSO issues:

VSO ISSUED FIREARMS

A. HANDGUNS Brand Model Caliber Barrel Length (Inches)
Glock 34MOS 9mm 5.31
Glock 45MOS 9mm 4.02
Glock 26 9mm 3.43
Smith & Wesson 686+ .357 Magnum 4

According to its Facebook page 7 months ago:

A VSO deputy was injured by an accidental self-inflicted gunshot to the leg around 1 p.m. today at Walmart, 101 Howland Blvd., Deltona. Deputies on scene rendered aid until EMS arrived and transported her by ground to an area hospital for treatment. Glad she’s OK and wishing her a full and speedy recovery from her injuries!

and this article:

Sheriff's deputy using bathroom at Deltona Walmart accidentally shoots herself in the legs
Pugliese said she was removing her holstered firearm from her waist to use the restroom when the firearm discharged, according to an incident report.

I can't find which issued handgun she shot herself with, but if we believe everything we read or watch on the internet, then one of the Glocks or the S&W686+ issued bt tne VSO just go off by themselves while holstered.

So I just saw a news report that SIG is suing Washington to force the training academy to allow 320s as well as to force the head of the facility to not be able to speak of any issues. It was a local Washington broadcast that came across my feed.

As far as I know any organization can elect to allow/issue whatever/however they wish. How could a firearms company force a facility to allow a gun especially law enforcement???? Are they just trying to tie this up in court with a gag order or something during????

Think this was the one I watched. It’s about a 3 minute news blurb.
https://youtu.be/YCW2cGxNpNI?si=GBOdOdNOUrLjUiqi

At this point, I just don't believe all of these incidents are caused by objects getting into the holster. In the first place, why would an officer try to cover it up if that is what really happened. It's not like they made some bonehead mistake like having their finger on the trigger when holstering the pistol. It's simply not something they would need to lie about. Something else is going on here. It is not happening with other makes and models. Any reasonable person should have concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
So I just saw a news report that SIG is suing Washington to force the training academy to allow 320s as well as to force the head of the facility to not be able to speak of any issues. It was a local Washington broadcast that came across my feed.

I saw that. It's not going to go well for Sig.

My private range just put out a note saying no P320s are allowed on the range until further notice.

Pickens County Outdoorsman Club incase any were wondering.

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Wonder if a duplicate of the off patent Glock mechanism could be integrated into an Sig dimension chassis to place in the grip module and a new striker inserted into the slide?

Ruger and Magpul did that recently with a lot of apparent success, reports of their pistol have been positive.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
My private range just put out a note saying no P320s are allowed on the range until further notice.

Pickens County Outdoorsman Club incase any were wondering.

If that becomes trendy it might be the final nail. Guess I can write off any hope of getting a fair amount of money back from my P320 stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
My private range just put out a note saying no P320s are allowed on the range until further notice.

dominoes

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by cslinger:
So I just saw a news report that SIG is suing Washington to force the training academy to allow 320s as well as to force the head of the facility to not be able to speak of any issues. It was a local Washington broadcast that came across my feed.

I saw that. It's not going to go well for Sig.

I don’t count on the media to report on the facts correctly, so there could be some things lost in interpretation, but if it’s even partially true, I’d say it’s absurd on SIG’s part and I hope that the judge spanks them hard for filing a frivolous suit. At this point, I’d love to see Washington State sue to force SIG management out of their jobs or the company out of business. Regardless of where one stands on whether or not there’s a problem with the design of the 320, this is asinine. Who does SIG think they are? Seriously, what makes them think they can do this?!

The issue up until recently has been that none of the pistols accused of un-commanded discharges had been found to be defective and investigators were unable to reproduce the failure. This has been Sig's position the entire time, and it has been my position too. When Alec Baldwin's SAA pattern pistol was found not to be able to fire without pulling the trigger, contrary to his claim, we accepted that as proof he pulled the trigger himself.

The FBI report showed that a manual release of the striker without a trigger pull (essentially poking the sear with a stick), after wiggling the slide on the receiver to simulate duty carry, could make the gun in question fire, but also noted it had what appears to be defective and/or non-conforming parts.

This new Air Force incident needs to be investigated and a root cause determined. Until then we have no idea what really happened.

Yes the dominoes are falling. Sig will have to do something, even if it's only adding a tabbed trigger and making the trigger guard wider.

I've held out against the YWBAG thread, but this ramping up definitely has me considering it.
Love my 320, and will be watching how this all progresses.

Haven't been to any of the local ranges in a while, will be curious to see if they put restrictions on bringing the 320 in.

Sig Sauer, Bud Light and Jaguar will be part of the curriculum for an MBA in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Sig Sauer, Bud Light and Jaguar will be part of the curriculum for an MBA in the future.

Sig Sauer's issue has nothing to do with Bud Light and Jag. Bud Light and Jag hated their customers and wanted to chase a demographic that either doesn't exist or would never buy their product.

Sig Sauer wants everyone to buy a Sig Sauer and has diversified enough to be that one stop shop for defensive/hunting items.