quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
I've gotta question the decision to leak the announcement to Ben Stoeger a week early, though. Personally if I knew a gun was shooting people and I was the only one who knew why, I'd feel morally and ethically bound to get that info out to the public as soon as possible, not play social media games.

I suspect Ben Stoeger has a much, much larger social media reach than Robert Burke has, so one can interpret Robert's use of Ben to get the word out as being the moral and ethical choice.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I do disagree with your summation though Chris. Claiming they have the fix doesn’t mean he’s identified the actual problem. It can merely mean he has produced parts that take a different path, probably a more traditional path, from trigger press to ignition. I might have misread your intent though. If so, I recant. Lol

Fair enough. I am assuming that the use of the term "fix" implies the root cause been identified. Otherwise, a better term to use would be "workaround". As I said, we will see.

quote:

suspect Ben Stoeger has a much, much larger social media reach than Robert Burke has, so one can interpret Robert's use of Ben to get the word out as being the moral and ethical choice.

If he had actually released the details to Ben, I'd agree. But just getting Ben to tell everybody's he's found the answer, a week before he reveals the answer...that smells like bullshit. Just calling it how I see it. I hope I'm wrong.

Robert Burke's aftermarket parts are generally of much higher material quality (and narrower tolerance ranges) than SIG's current factory parts. I have no doubt that the solution he'll offer will at least somewhat rely on this. I don't think there will be any large-scale redesign just because he'll still ultimately be constrained by the P320's overall design, which is simply beyond his control (i.e. I'm not making a jab at Robert Burke's competence).

However, Ben Stoeger (in the video above) definitely uses the term "parts kit", which makes me think that more than just a single part will be included. If I were a betting man, here's what I think Burke will say about the design and what the kit will include:

1. Added Sear Block: The P320's sear is never blocked, not even when the manual safety is engaged (on pistols equipped with one).

2. Redesigned Striker Block Safety: The P320 does have a striker block safety, albeit an unconventional one. While it would be impossible to change over to the P365's striker block safety (which is much more conventional relative to other designs on the market) without redesigning the entire slide, enhancements to things like surface engagement and overall reliability are possible.

3. C.O.R.E. Kit: Burke will probably make some mention of the wide tolerance ranges and SIG's subpar QC exacerbating the potential negative consequences of the above concerns. This new kit will likely be similar to the C.O.R.E. kit that he currently offers, plus the additional parts/redesigns above.

I wonder what Sig's response to this will be. If someone says they have a solution, that must mean they identified the problem. If they identified the problem, that's a problem for Sig. Sig will have a problem if they'll accept the solution and they'll have a problem if their position is that it's a solution looking for a problem.

I can't imagine someone offering a solution saying they don't actually know the specific problem but here's a smorgasbord of solutions that you can buy in a kit and hopefully one of them sticks to the wall.

But I'm glad for any attempted concrete attempts instead of "he said, she said, it fires on its own, it doesn't fire on its own."

I'm interested to see if he has actually verifiably proven the mechanical issue. Y'know, the piece of the puzzle that's been so elusive thus far.

I'm willing to accept that there very likely could be a mechanical problem, even if some/most of the hysteria can be chalked up to modern social media bullshit and echo chambering.

But the fact that a guy who wants to sell you a fix for your P320 has chosen to hype it up on social media for a full week before having a big reveal, rather than simply laying out an explanation of the issue and his fix, gives this a bad odor at first blush.

Smacks of PT Barnum more than JM Browning.

We'll see.

^^^I’d agree with that. He’s creating some hype. The only thing that I’d say in his defense there is that his original Facebook post actually only says that he’s going to talk about it. He didn’t reveal his opinion that there was a problem, except to reply to one of the later comments on that post. Even then, it doesn’t actually say much.

Every time the military decides to switch pistols, people come out of the woodwork for years to bad mouth it. Whatever replaced the hated Beretta was doomed to be hated on just as much.

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:
Every time the military decides to switch pistols, people come out of the woodwork for years to bad mouth it. Whatever replaced the hated Beretta was doomed to be hated on just as much.

Yeah, but this is a little different. We live in the video age. Multiple videos of the gun discharging unintentionally are hard to argue with. The p320 apologists will blame the holster, even though it's the same holster used by Glock carriers and M&P carriers without issue.

Given the drop-safe issues early on, now the uncommanded discharge controversy, I'd err on the side of caution and ditch the platform.

If I want a DA/SA pistol, I definitely want a SIG.

If I want a polymer framed striker gun, I wouldn't touch a Sig with a 10'pole. Although I do own a P365, it's not my preferred carry gun.

Anybody ever see a 320 UD in a purse? Or a coat pocket Or a fanny pack, back pack?
Thought not.....
Or how about a 320 10mm UD?
or a 320 .357 sig or .40 UD?

Only a 320 9mm? And; on video?
Has to be a coincidence
Has to be

quote:

Originally posted by Cous2492:

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:
Every time the military decides to switch pistols, people come out of the woodwork for years to bad mouth it. Whatever replaced the hated Beretta was doomed to be hated on just as much.

Yeah, but this is a little different. We live in the video age. Multiple videos of the gun discharging unintentionally are hard to argue with. The p320 apologists will blame the holster, even though it's the same holster used by Glock carriers and M&P carriers without issue.

Given the drop-safe issues early on, now the uncommanded discharge controversy, I'd err on the side of caution and ditch the platform.

If I want a DA/SA pistol, I definitely want a SIG.

If I want a polymer framed striker gun, I wouldn't touch an Sig with a 10'pole. Although I do own a P365, it's not my preferred carry gun.

Speaking of the P365. I have not heard of the P320 issues w/ the P365 series. Seems to be about the same FCU and stuff. I am not trying to start a shitstorm but, genuinely curious.

quote:

Speaking of the P365. I have not heard of the P320 issues w/ the P365 series. Seems to be about the same FCU and stuff. I am not trying to start a shitstorm but, genuinely curious.

I have a 365 and 365XL. So far neither has just started randomly firing for no reason. I did put manual safeties on both of mine since they are carry guns and I carry with rounds in the chambers.

I haven’t heard of any P365 UD/AD issues that I can remember.

quote:

Originally posted by Abn556:

quote:

Speaking of the P365. I have not heard of the P320 issues w/ the P365 series. Seems to be about the same FCU and stuff. I am not trying to start a shitstorm but, genuinely curious.

I have a 365 and 365XL. So far neither has just started randomly firing for no reason. I did put manual safeties on both of mine since they are carry guns and I carry with rounds in the chambers.

I haven’t heard of any P365 UD/AD issues that I can remember.

They are completely different designs.

quote:

They are completely different designs.

Care to explain?

They operate differently I have also read and heard described. I’m no expert mind you but one big difference is the 320 safety blocks the trigger bar I believe while the 365 safety blocks the sear. Others are much more knowledgeable but I too have read the designs while appear similar/the same are in fact quite different.

In addition to the differences pointed out by pedropcola, the P365 also has a different sear spring setup and a more traditional plunger-style striker safety block. Most sparts on the P365 are much smaller than their counterparts on the P320, and there's much more "nesting" and interaction of different pieces going on in the P365 to cram everything into the smaller gun. Conceptually they're very similar, but the designs are not the same.

Thx for clarification

Thank you to all. With the all the different iterations of the P365 to include the Fuse which is actually damn close to a service size pistol make that a new duty pistol for Sig. Have Safariland make duty holster for that.

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Thank you to all. With the all the different iterations of the P365 to include the Fuse which is actually damn close to a service size pistol make that a new duty pistol for Sig. Have Safariland make duty holster for that.

The P365, in any size, is not a hard use firearm. Far too many people breaking trigger bar springs. There is a reason Sig sells them in a 3 pack.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Thank you to all. With the all the different iterations of the P365 to include the Fuse which is actually damn close to a service size pistol make that a new duty pistol for Sig. Have Safariland make duty holster for that.

The P365, in any size, is not a hard use firearm. Far too many people breaking trigger bar springs. There is a reason Sig sells them in a 3 pack.

This is why SIG is no longer my favorite manufacturer. The early P series guns, especially the W. German and Swiss models seemed to be dependable. SIG fell apart quality wise about 10 years ago. They also lost their identity. Quality hammer fired guns took a back seat to mass produced striker fired polymer wonders. And their version isn't as good as similar offerings from Glock, Smith and Wesson, or H&K. But they mastered marketing, landed some big contracts, and got their MIM parts made cheap overseas.

The Glock 42 and 43 have the same reliability as the 17, it doesn't matter the size, they are all completely dependable.

I get that YouTube and the gun culture have driven SIG to this point, but I think that in the end, Sig didn't rise to the occasion and the company will go under because of the P320.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by 357fuzz:
Thank you to all. With the all the different iterations of the P365 to include the Fuse which is actually damn close to a service size pistol make that a new duty pistol for Sig. Have Safariland make duty holster for that.

The P365, in any size, is not a hard use firearm. Far too many people breaking trigger bar springs. There is a reason Sig sells them in a 3 pack.

That sounds like an easy fix to beef up.