quote:

Originally posted by 1flynDO:
See i believe just the opposite. I think this is a training issue.

I should start a YouTube training class:

How to sit in a car with a holstered firearm 101.


Of course I'm joking. There is very clear video evidence of the P320 discharging in holsters. No training can fix that, only a safer gun.

And to the people who blame the holster.... The Safariland is the gold standard of duty holsters. It's not the holster, it's not the TQ bracket, it's not the WML. It's the gun.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

Here's what I think Sig should do:
[LIST]

Extend a free safety upgrade program to all current 320 owners to have these features retro-fitted. That includes the M17 and M18, which have only the slide safety.

I want to make sure this is only a grammar issue in how I read your sentence. Your sentence seems to say the M17 and M18 "have ONLY the slide safety" and not "have the slide safety IN ADDITION to the safety features of the other P320s."

I'm asking because I am still carrying the M18 and am banking that the manual safety is keeping my dongle safe. I'm still ambivalent bordering on concerned about the issue so I'm not trying to defend anything. I want to understand what you mean.

I do wish this gets settled with an upgrade as you outlined. I have a second P320 that I have not put in use as it doesn't have a safety.

quote:

Originally posted by Rey HRH:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:

Here's what I think Sig should do:
[LIST]

Extend a free safety upgrade program to all current 320 owners to have these features retro-fitted. That includes the M17 and M18, which have only the slide safety.

I want to make sure this is only a grammar issue in how I read your sentence. Your sentence seems to say the M17 and M18 "have ONLY the slide safety" and not "have the slide safety IN ADDITION to the safety features of the other P320s."

I'm asking because I am still carrying the M18 and am banking that the manual safety is keeping my dongle safe. I'm still ambivalent bordering on concerned about the issue so I'm not trying to defend anything. I want to understand what you mean.

I do wish this gets settled with an upgrade as you outlined. I have a second P320 that I have not put in use as it doesn't have a safety.

The M17/M18 have all the same internal safeties as any other P320 variant, in addition to the manual thumb safety. The manual thumb safety works by blocking the trigger bar from moving, it does not interact directly with the sear.

I absolutely was NOT refering to internal safeties.

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I absolutely was NOT refering to internal safeties.

I'm with you that there is a design flaw. But SIG won't do any type of safety recall. "It ends today" according to them. Any admission on their part that the P320 is an unsafe design would put them out of business immediately. The platform has gotten WAY too big. What's sad is how committed to a freaking product people are and the mental gymnastics they put themselves through to have confidence in their purchase. The amount of people here and on other platforms who say, "Well, mine has never gone off in the holster..." is mind boggling to me. None of the people who had an uncommanded discharge with their P320 had that happen.... Until it did!

You two are ignoring the elephant in the room. And it isn’t that there are safer designs.

No one has taken any of these “spontaneous” shooting guns and recreated the event. All these theories are great but nobody can recreate them. You get the moronic videos we see where they are doing crazy stuff to make a partially disassembled or wildly and poorly modified gun to go off.

If a particular gun “just went off” you should absolutely be able to recreate the environment and make it happen again.

All the blurry videos from across a room or a parking lot or whatever don’t prove anything.

I am out of the 320 game myself. No personal skin or pride. I just don’t like shoddy thinking and poor rationale to replace actual proof. Hiring a bunch of lawyers proves absolutely zilch. Those juries, same thing. Until they can recreate the event the design hasn’t been proven to be anything other than not my favorite.

If you have a good holster and you don’t let ANYTHING get into the trigger guard, these guns just don’t go off. If you guys are right there are literally hundreds of stock guns that just went off and there should be no issue testing them till they go off again. And yet...

quote:

Originally posted by Cous2492:

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
I absolutely was NOT refering to internal safeties.

I'm with you that there is a design flaw. But SIG won't do any type of safety recall. "It ends today" according to them. Any admission on their part that the P320 is an unsafe design would put them out of business immediately. The platform has gotten WAY too big. What's sad is how committed to a freaking product people are and the mental gymnastics they put themselves through to have confidence in their purchase. The amount of people here and on other platforms who say, "Well, mine has never gone off in the holster..." is mind boggling to me. None of the people who had an uncommanded discharge with their P320 had that happen.... Until it did!

I agree with the second part. My proposal was what they should do, not what I think they will do.

As far as an internal design flaw, I never said there's one for sure. I'm saying there's enough anecdotal evidence that it's something that should be investigated. My proposal directly addresses what I think is a definite issue, a lack of external safeties, but leaves an open door for monitoring and documenting a possible internal problem as well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: kkina,

I would love to know if these issues have been reported by any agencies or militaries outside of the US.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
I would love to know if these issues have been reported by any agencies or militaries outside of the US.

That depends partly on whether Youtube allows monetization of channels from that country or not.

KABOOM!!! Foreign Special Forces REACTS to WEIRD P320 *FAILURE*!!!!!1
[insert shocked face thumbnail with neon background]

Ain’t that the truth.

Freakin' likes and shares and YouTube dollars...most of that group's motives are as suspect as Sig's.

^^^I make no secret that I think there are concrete problems with the P320, but I completely agree. There are very few sources on YouTube that will actually inform you of something meaningful or useful on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

The M17/M18 have all the same internal safeties as any other P320 variant, in addition to the manual thumb safety. The manual thumb safety works by blocking the trigger bar from moving, it does not interact directly with the sear.

okay, thanks for the clarification. But that does bring up another issue then. If the thumb safety works by blocking the trigger bar from moving, which I assume is moved by pulling on the trigger and if the ADs that have been shown with the gun having been in the holster with nothing presumably moving the trigger, then the manual safety isn't going to prevent those sorts of ADs then, am I laying out the logic correctly?

If that is what is happening, then yes, you are correct, the presence of a manual safety might not prevent the gun from firing. Keyword "If". Which is one of the reasons that throwing out solutions before anybody can demonstrate the problem is futile.

Love it when a little clarity parts the clouds

I've never heard of a P250 going off in a holster.

quote:

Originally posted by Mars_Attacks:
I've never heard of a P250 going off in a holster.

The problem I had with my P250s was that sometimes they WOULDN'T go off when I pulled the trigger (light strikes). I liked the idea of the gun, but the hammer spring setup is pretty unique, they're not making parts anymore, and I wasn't confident that it would work when I needed it.

It sounds like The Sig Armorer, Robert Burke, will soon have a parts kit available that fixes the uncommanded discharge issue for the P320.

Interesting. If there's a fix, then there must be a root cause that's been determined. Robert Burke is a well-respected Sig gunsmith. We will see. Looks like it'll be announced Monday or so.

If a problem has really been identified and a fix developed, that's great news.

I've gotta question the decision to leak the announcement to Ben Stoeger a week early, though. Personally if I knew a gun was shooting people and I was the only one who knew why, I'd feel morally and ethically bound to get that info out to the public as soon as possible, not play social media games.

I'll be interested to see what he has to say, but this already feels like it's going to be overhyped.

“Are you guys still using forums? Who the hell uses forums?” 16:00

That made me chuckle. Umm, me?

I have bought stuff from Stoeger in the past and will in the future. I detest this internet piling on though. It is the same on any topic from politics to women’s basketball. Something is said and then it snowballs regardless of its veracity.

Saying Sig is a company you no longer will purchase from is one thing. Producing video after video that absolutely imply that this gun is spontaneously firing as fact is ridiculous. It isn’t fact. It’s a hypothesis.

I do disagree with your summation though Chris. Claiming they have the fix doesn’t mean he’s identified the actual problem. It can merely mean he has produced parts that take a different path, probably a more traditional path, from trigger press to ignition. I might have misread your intent though. If so, I recant. Lol