quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
https://apnews.com/article/tru...a7dc335cbfc2c628a3da

The AP literally hates Donald Trump.

On that you and I agree.

I am willing to hear more about it though. But on the surface I am not a proponent of that.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
Things can change, especially in that part of the world - I don’t like the possibility of any nuclear deal with any country in the ME.

Nor do I. The muslims cannot be trusted...no matter the flavor.

Tuco delivers the famous rebuttal, "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk,"

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It's a video game.

Well fudge..... shoulda caught that!

“Yemen's Houthi rebels, backed by Tehran, claimed attacks on two Saudi oil tankers Wednesday night. This is their first strike since declaring a blockade on the kingdom's shipping earlier this week. 
………
The attacks came as US forces carried out a 12th consecutive night of strikes on Iran, and Trump warned that America would destroy an Iranian bridge or power plant for every ship targeted in the Strait of Hormuz. …”

https://mol.im/a/15999709

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
At this point, what does success look like? Is that clearly being communicated? What is our goal? Who is paying for it? Are the major oil exporters assisting in cost?

What we are paying for is decades of not having to worry about a renegade fanatical regime funding and encouraging our enemies, both foreign and domestic, along with a stable and regulated global oil market. We can fight them there, or in a few years, fight them here. Iran would love to see the horror and tragedy of 911 written large. We will not be able to measure success until it is clearly evident in terms of being able to go about our daily lives without fear.

I would like to see more of the civilized world assisting the US since we will all benefit in the long run. But it is comforting knowing that we have the strength, knowledge, and will to do it on our own when we must.

^^^ Well said.

End goal is to not allow iran to have nuclear weapons. Then iran decided to try to close the straight. That is a big issue. So that is another task to address. That has not really changed. Going to have to continue to attack until some in iran gain enough control to bring them to the table to sign an agreement. That is it. Stay tuned and support the effort. That is how we will get to where we want to be.

Lest we not forget for almost 5 decades we have ignored or fostered the problem 47 inherited. And lest not forget that in just the last few month the wildeyed fanatics killed around 50,000 of their own citizens. So while this is going on lest we not forget what these fanatics have continually shouted about America and Israel since overthrowing their own county almost 50 years ago.

quote:

Originally posted by reloader-1:
I haven’t seen that communicated, expressed, or said to the American people yet.

And yet was also true of all the conflicts the US has been involved in since the end of WWII.

Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say since the Civil War. There was some attempt at a justification for our involvement in World War I, but to “Make the world safe for democracy” wasn’t all that compelling for many (most?) Americans. And although WWII saw plenty of propaganda explaining our involvement, the fact that war was declared on us made much of it superfluous.

I believe we have been justified in most of our wars, but explaining why to the public has been very feeble.

Lets stop playing games. This tit for tat we are engaged in is ridiculous. Time to shit or get off the pot.
Why are all these problems now our problems?
We are told constantly that we don't need the oil from the middle east, We destroyed all there nuclear capability, The citizens of Iran want there government thrown out, we are alone in all this.
The Israelis have skin in the game and have greatly contributed, and must destroy the Iranians and actually ALL the Arabs for there own survival.
I don't believe that any of the Arabs/muslims are our friends and ever will be.
The CIA should be stirring up hatred between the two Arab/muslims factions. Let them invade and take control of Iran and deal with the losers as they see fit in there historic ways.

The Arabs/muslims respect fear and create terrorism all over the globe, lets give them what they understand and get this over with.
Carpet bomb them with 2000# dumb bombs, everything, power plants, bridges, all infrastructure, all night, all day. I hear that we have nuclear deep penetration bombs that will collapse the mountains the Iranians hide under, lets see if they work. who cares if the world is outraged, they are any ways to everything we do. Let our barbaric approach to our enemy sit with all our other enemy's across the planet.
Then bring our brave troops home ASAP.
There loss of life and injury is not worth it for the benefit of Muslims who hate us and will till they are able to kill us all.

I'm sure most of you have heard the fable of the little green frog:

The thought of swallowing a little green frog is not pleasant, but if it is inevitable that you do so, the better plan is to do so before he grows into a big, ugly toad - at that point, the swallowing is much more difficult and much more unpleasant.

The Iran "frog" has been beaten down into a little green frog once again, but he is inevitably growing. We can handle it now - or hope that all of their pent-up hatred for the USA will somehow go away in the future. I can assure you that it will not go away - because religious hatred festers and will flame-up time and again.

If the USA cannot deal with higher gas prices and an inflated economy, so be it. But dealing with the Iranian problem is gonna be a big, ugly toad in our future and we WILL have to deal with it at some time. I may not have to see it (at the age of 82), but I can see my children and grandchildren having to do so. I hope and pray that will not be the case...........

It sounds like we're about to rain Hell on these psychopaths.

No one could have made a greater effort than President Trump, but these insane religious zealots cannot be reasoned with.

I'm beginning to think they like being bombed.

I’d love to know what the game plan was from the beginning. Surely, someone said, I’m pretty sure the IRG will never surrender, and they will surely never, ever sign a deal of any kind.
This had to be common knowledge in the planning talks.
So why did we waste time with the signing a deal nonsense? This conflict was never going to be solved that way. Maybe there’s something we don’t know, but it’s extremely frustrating that Iran wasn’t bombed into the Stone Age, then we talk.

quote:

Originally posted by sigspecops:
So why did we waste time with the signing a deal nonsense?

In order to clearly demonstrate to everyone- supporters and detractors alike- that every effort was made to reach a peaceful solution, but that the Iranians are abject liars, completely without honor.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
....I'm beginning to think they like being bombed.

Well, there's those 72 virgins and all. How's a fella supposed to resist that...

quote:

Originally posted by armored:
...We are told constantly that we don't need the oil from the middle east, ...

You've fallen for the either/or logical fallacy. Reality is much more complex than we either need ME oil or we don't need ME oil.

Let's start with two basic premises:

the news sucks and they're rarely concerned about accuracy and orders of magnitude more concerned about clicks and butts in front of screen (i.e. ad revenue). The supermajority will report a politician's press conference and won't fact check it. Viewers/Readers are left on their own to find out if true or not (e.g. "we don't need the oil from the middle east").

both R's and D's tell half truths and bold faced lies. The media is supposed to fact check it, but they definitely don't if fits their political bias. They also won't fact check if they're more concerned about being first to report than accurate.

The simple fact is that to maintain our quality of life, the US has a massive thirst for crude oil that must be satisfied. Crude oil is refined into gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, etc. that keeps our economy moving. Our domestic production has greatly improved the last 15 years, but every day we have a shortage of crude oil and as of last Friday our net imports (i.e. imports - exports) showed the shortage to be ~2.5 million barrels and we're 450,000 barrels worse off than last year. That's 3 AfraMax supertankers, 2.5 SuezMax supertankers, or 1.25 VLCCS every single day that is coming from a foreign nation. Screenshot of EIA's latest data:


Crude oil is less fungible than gasoline or diesel but still pretty fungible. As a decent simplification of very complex financial and refinery efficiency models, crude oil traders mainly worry about which category of crude they're purchasing - light sweet, light sour, medium sweet, medium sour, heavy sweet, and heavy sour. Since it's more or less fungible within these six categories, we're bidding against the rest of the world for our crude units that are configured to refine one specific crude category. For example, a refinery's crude unit set up to process WTI will experience massive yield drops if trying to process the heavy sour Venezuelan crude oil, and vice versa. Feeding a refinery's light sweet crude unit with heavy sour crude has the same effect (i.e. explosive diarrhea) as feeding a human cyclosporiasis tainted lettuce when humans are designed to run on parasite free lettuce.

Why is crude oil being fungible important? We're bidding against the rest of the world for our 2.5 million barrel per day shortage. We need Asia and Europe to buy ME crude oil so that our 2.5 million barrel shortage can be inexpensively supplied from friendly (i.e. stable) and nearby (i.e. lower shipping costs and shorter transit time) preferably in the North America and South America.

Want to make US gasoline prices soar? Hell no, but let's look at it anyway. We had major price increase at the pump this spring when our crude oil exports increased to highest levels in last 2.5 years and our crude oil imports decreased to lowest levels in last 2.5 years (I did my best to line up the two EIA graphs):



Last spring when the bypasses weren't flowing and the Strait was blocked the rest of the world looked at US Domestic produced crude oil and said we'd like to bid against American refineries on purchasing that. They were somewhat successful and that is why exports increased in the chart above and the price of WTI (i.e. America's most recognizable crude sold on NYMEX) increased. The rest of the world also bid against us in other countries that normally supply American refinery's crude oil.

To tweak what I wrote earlier, to have affordable gasoline the US consumer needs both to be happening:

Asia and Europe to buy ME crude oil so that our 2.5 million barrel shortage is supplied from friendly (i.e. stable) and nearby (i.e. cut shipping costs and transit time) preferably in the North America and South America.

Asia and Europe to not be bidding up the prices for North America and South America crude oil.

---

Ego is the anesthesia that deadens the pain of stupidity

DISCLAIMER: These are the author's own personal views and do not represent the views of the author's employer.

Food for thought… Iran has shut out internet access to the country, leaving only official news channels broadcasting. The people only get approved government propaganda!

My question is- why is that medium still broadcasting? The broadcast towers could be eliminated, even if the studios were spared. Or better, let the staff know that the studios will be silenced and to leave the premises.

What am I missing?

Fox News also reports the results of its latest poll which finds 56% oppose the ongoing American military action against Iran, including 40% who "strongly" oppose. "Disapproval of President Donald Trump’s handling of Iran hit a record high in July," Fox writes.

"A majority of voters oppose U.S. military action, and nearly two thirds think the conflict will last at least a year," the report says.

This as The Wall Street Journal does an entire investigative report which should be laughably obvious to any careful observer to what's been going on and the deepening quagmire the US is getting itself into:

As the war in Iran enters its fifth month, Trump is increasingly frustrated that a conflict he once thought would be over in a matter of weeks has dragged on with no end in sight, administration officials and others close to the president said.

Some of Trump’s advisers now worry that the war—which has resulted in higher prices, falling approval ratings and the deaths of more than a dozen U.S. servicemembers—is consuming his presidency and damaging Republicans’ already dim prospects in the coming midterm elections.

Alarmingly, the WSJ noted that Trump seems in "revenge mode" against Tehran, and apparently sees no other options than to try and keep bombing his way out of it. Of course, this script has been written many times - not only during the "Global War on Terror" and this millennium's "forever wars" - but going all the way back to the Vietnam war.

The war is said to be taking a heavy "toll" on Trump and his top officials. According to more of what's also been glaringly obvious for anyone who has had a shred of independent thought:

The war is splitting the conservative coalition over which Trump once had an iron grip, worrying some Republicans close to the White House. Longtime Trump allies such as Fox News host Laura Ingraham have used their platforms to express concerns about how the war might affect Republicans in November’s midterm elections. On Monday, she said the “clock is ticking” to the midterms.

“Netanyahu has led us into a horrible conflict filled with lies,” Steve Bannon, a longtime Trump adviser, said. “People can see with their own eyes what’s going on.”

While this part about Netanyahu is true, it is ultimately President Trump who made the decision, after for years prior - and especially on the campaign trail - articulately spelling out that attacking Iran and starting new Mideast wars would be one of most idiotic foreign policy moves a president could make.

Perhaps the utter folly of Operation Epic Fury has finally begun to dawn on the president. WSJ also observed that "Last month, the president was so excited at the prospect of signing the memorandum of understanding with Tehran to reopen the Strait of Hormuz that he was dismissive of Republican allies who said the Iranians would never stick to the agreement, according to a senior administration official. He wanted it to be over, Trump told them."

https://www.zerohedge.com/geop...ight-us-strikes-iran

“It is easier to start a war than to end it.”
— Gabriel García Márquez

And no, that doesn’t mean I was opposed to the start of the war for what were obvious good reasons. More and more, though, I am reminded of all the times wars were started without any clear appreciation of how they were going to end and especially what the capabilities of the enemy were.*

In this case I can only wonder why that was, especially if it’s true that the President truly believed that a sort-of written agreement would somehow bind this enemy to a particular course of action. It’s not a real estate deal that can be enforced by a court order and saddling someone with a bad business reputation. Did he get bad advice from the people who should have known better? Perhaps. There seems to be a lot of that going around in this Administration as well.

* And for anyone who still believes that Iran isn’t causing us meaningful difficulties beyond the closure of the strait, I can only recommend looking at some actual news reporting sources. Here is one I check every weekday. I don’t agree with all of his comments and “analyses,” but facts are facts.
https://www.youtube.com/@S2Underground