quote:

Originally posted by Shotgun Zeke:
Why do you assume it is a guy taking her rifle? Can't it be a woman taking a woman's rifle?

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by RNshooter:
What's the point of "walking through your house" and "opening doors, etc" when you know there's a bad guy in your house?

This is exactly my point about anticipating incidents through the view of a narrow filter.

No one has ever invaded my house, but I have heard strange noises while in bed many times. So, what were my options?
“Oh, it’s just the wind,” and go back to sleep, hoping I’m right?
Call the police and have them break into my house and clear it for me? How many times would they be willing to do that, and how many times would I be willing to make the required repairs?
Roll out into my defensive position and stay awake for the rest of the night or fall asleep on the floor?

None of those appeal to me and therefore I clear my house myself. Would I do that if I knew there was a bad guy there? No, but that has never been the situation, and it usually won’t be for most people.

We all know that long guns are more effective defensive weapons that handguns. Handguns were invented for the purpose of convenience of carry, not effectiveness, and that’s because it’s not always possible or even a good idea to try to handle and deploy a long gun in some situations.

Even members of law enforcement tactical teams sometimes switch to handguns despite normally relying on long guns (rifles, if they’re smart). What’s more, LEOs usually have handguns in proper carry holsters; if someone grabs an officer’s rifle, she can let him take it while drawing her pistol and filling him full of bullets—and that assumes her partner(s) don’t do that first with their rifles. To how many private individuals clearing their own homes does that apply?

Where I come from they call this trolling.

quote:

Originally posted by Warhorse:
What tripped your alarm?

Once I got to the kids, and got the 14 yr old to wake up and the girlfriend to arm herself and disable the alarm, I went and cleared the house. It was the birthday balloon that had drifted into the area covered by the motion sensor.

So this is the one instance where I had to clear the house. A rifle would've been quite cumbersome here.

Nah, I just think if we are going to go PC, we should go all the way. Personally, I would prefer to keep the term "officer" and perhaps use "assailant" instead of making assumptions as to the sex of the perp.

quote:

Originally posted by BRL:
Where I come from they call this trolling.

Back on topic, though, this hits close to home as I posted a couple weeks ago that my former babysitter attempted a home invasion with her husband. I am very glad she didn't pick this house.

You think Sigfreund is trolling? Really? LMAO.

Despite the movements to the contrary, I avoid to the extent that I can using “their” as a possessive pronoun when referring to a single person. And because it can’t be assumed that LEOs are always men (my own special team has one woman and has had several in the past), I sometimes alternate when identifying their sex when referring to them. If that degree of (presumed) PC-itiveness offends a particular snowflake, that is fortunately not my problem. He (or she) can put me on his (or her) ignore list and he (or she) will be spared becoming outraged on an early Sunday morning.

If this site had a "like" and/or "agree" button, my thumb would develop a blister caused by the number of times I hit those buttons for the two posts by Rhino and Sigfreund above this one.

This simple thread has taken on some passion ,name calling is smelling it up though.

I'm sure most gun owners (certainly Sigforum members!) have multiple handguns and rifles, it doesn't have to be either/or. If I'm sure it is a home invasion, plan A is grab the AR and let them come to me (2 story home, I can occupy a point of domination covering the stairs and not have to worry about the kids and wife).

If it is just a noise to be investigated, nothing says I can't grab my P226 and light to check that out just because my primary HD gun is the AR.

I just read an article about this incident, one of dimised criminals Grandfather said it wasn't a fair fight, you know Brass knuckles against an AR15.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: liner,

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The AR is definately going to be more effective than a pistol any day. The problem I see with it (and most shotguns) is you need 2 hands to keep it secured while walking through your house. This is not the case with most pistols. You can use your free hand to open doors etc. And, still get a shot off single handed with most pistols and not lose control of the pistol if you had to.

This why a sling is required on every HD weapon, bigger than a pistol.
For weapon retention, even when the weapon is employed for a muzzle strike, if a malfunction should take place.
Simple optic, simple light, simple sling.

I'm not going to opine on the rifle/shotgun vs. pistol debate. However, since we are talking home defense, I'll add this as food for thought.

Does anyone keep a bag/pouch with spare loaded mags (rifle or pistol) that is easy to grab and carry to another room (say with a shoulder strap like a fannypack/Maxpedition Versipack, etc.), in the case of a home invasion?

Most people, even during the day time, aren't going to have extra mags on their person in the event of a home invasion. At night, you likely won't have time to grab your gun and throw some pants on. I've always thought it prudent, whether at home or away, to have at least one extra mag near by.

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Originally posted by Longbow_06:
This why a sling is required on every HD weapon, bigger than a pistol.

Being from the UK you may be familiar with the Sam Browne belt. For those who aren’t, it’s a strap that runs over one shoulder (originally the right) to a waist belt. Its purpose is to help support the weight of weapons on the waist. Its use by military officers led to its later adoption by US police officers. For them it served the original purpose of supporting the weight of a sidearm, looked spiffy, and no one was whining about the “militarization” of the police in those days. Unfortunately, however, police officers also discovered a disadvantage to the belt.

Unlike military personnel who may kill any opponent they encounter, LEOs must sometimes go hands-on with arrestees. In such situations, opponents often grabbed the Sam Browne and used it as a handle to jerk the officer around or throw him (it was virtually all hims in those days) to the ground. As I recall, the belt even got the name “suicide strap.” That was at least part of the reason for the belt’s disappearance from most police uniforms today.

A similar problem can be experienced with a slung long gun in close encounters. If an opponent, especially a larger, stronger opponent, grabs the weapon, he can use it in the same jerking, throwing efforts. If the good guy (or gal) ends up on the ground during all that, things can become very bad very quickly even if the BG doesn’t have a gun himself.

Again, all that is much less likely to be a serious matter for an LEO who has partners with him. And as I’ve mentioned before, the LEO will have a handgun in a proper holster available to transition to during the incident; that may not be true of most non-LEOs who are battling a home invader.

Are there defensive maneuvers available to the user of a long gun during such an attack? Yes, but they depend on knowledge, skill, presence of mind during a violent encounter, and to a certain degree the user’s strength and endurance.

Slings have their place, but I disagree that they’re the assured solution to the disadvantages of using a long gun for home defense under some circumstances.

quote:

Originally posted by Storm:

Does anyone keep a bag/pouch with spare loaded mags (rifle or pistol) that is easy to grab and carry to another room (say with a shoulder strap like a fannypack/Maxpedition Versipack, etc.), in the case of a home invasion?

Most people, even during the day time, aren't going to have extra mags on their person in the event of a home invasion. At night, you likely won't have time to grab your gun and throw some pants on. I've always thought it prudent, whether at home or away, to have at least one extra mag near by.

Yes, under my bed is actually body armor I can toss on quick and it has an AR mag, pistol mag, spare light and empty pistol holster.

The price of armor has come way down, good plate carriers and plates can be had for under $300.

A good armor-less option is the "battle belt". Use it with the type of buckle that snaps together and it can be the quickest of anything to don and hold whatever you want.

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Originally posted by Strambo:
A good armor-less option is the "battle belt". Use it with the type of buckle that snaps together and it can be the quickest of anything to don and hold whatever you want.

That is an excellent idea that I hadn’t ever considered. Now I will finally have a use for my battle belt.

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Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by Strambo:
A good armor-less option is the "battle belt". Use it with the type of buckle that snaps together and it can be the quickest of anything to don and hold whatever you want.

That is an excellent idea that I hadn’t ever considered. Now I will finally have a use for my battle belt.

It doesn't have to be complex or difficult; you don't need some special piece of kit.

A while back, right here in our own "CCW Methods and Issues" sub-forum, this issue came up relative to hearing protection and whether or not a person would use it if responding to a home invasion.

Some folks here poked fun at me (mildly) for being too prepared/overly paranoid when I responded with my bedtime preparedness routine, which is this: I use an IWB holster (I use a MS VM2) that I leave clipped to my pants with my pistol in it when I take them off to go to bed. In the weak-side pocket of those pants resides a pocket magazine carrier (I use an MS PCH-M) with my spare magazine in it. When I take my pants off, I put them on a chair next to my bed. If I need to get out of bed to investigate a bump in the night all I have to do is put my pants on -- takes about a second, literally -- and by doing so I am not only no longer naked but I'm also armed with my EDC and a spare magazine for it.

This procedure is simple and easy, and doesn't require any special equipment "battle belt" or "bag/pouch with spare loaded mags", nor does it require any special preparation beyond just leaving my holster and spare magazine in my pants when I take them off and always putting my pants in the same spot when I go to bed.

If one is worried about preserving one's hearing, it's easy to leave earphones positioned on the back of the chair, too. That takes an extra second to switch the earphones to "on" and put them on your head.

^^^^^
Very similar. I wear pants with the gunbelt on, spare magazine/carrier, as well as Fenix PD35 flashlight and a knife clipped on various pockets. The holster / pistol gets removed at bedtime but is close at hand.

I take them off right before bed and same as you, if something goes bump in the night, I swing the legs out, pull on the pants (and shoes if needed), clip the holster w/pistol on it, likely grab the cellphone and a pull on a shirt, then I'm all set.

In 5 seconds I can have my pants on, with pistol / spare mag / light / knife / cell phone. Another say 510 seconds gets me shoes (no socks) and a shirt.

The doors, locks, security system, and dogs get me this time margin, but obviously if someone is just kicking in the bedroom door it's pistol only with drawers on. So be it in that case.

When we had a couple of murderers on the loose inside of 5 miles a month or so ago, the loaded AR was right next to all that, with spare mag and ear pro. Do the above, sling the rifle with spare mag in rear pocket and slip the ear pro on out the door. Easily ready in <20 seconds.

There are other 5.56mm options beyond an AR. few pages ago, I brought up the IWI X95. This is a gun with significant rear weight balance. Combined with the short length forward of the pistol grip, this makes for a long gun with very good one handed handling. From what I've heard, this was an explicit design decision.

quote:

Originally posted by jimmy123x:
The AR is definately going to be more effective than a pistol any day. The problem I see with it (and most shotguns) is you need 2 hands to keep it secured while walking through your house. This is not the case with most pistols. You can use your free hand to open doors etc. And, still get a shot off single handed with most pistols and not lose control of the pistol if you had to.

I see now one of the dead teens' grandfather has come out to say it wasnt a fair fight because the homeowner had an AR.

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Originally posted by Lord Vaalic:
I see now one of the dead teens' grandfather has come out to say it wasnt a fair fight because the homeowner had an AR.

I think that's been mentioned about three or four times already in this thread.