Barndg00- I appreciate your responses; this debacle has obviously been weaponized for political leverage which has unfortunately removed any chance for it to be a purely scientific endeavor in terms of solving it. The only thing I can add is that the whole mask issue has been a debacle from the beginning. As everyone knows, the vast majority of people are using something which stands little chance of inhibiting transmission of aerosols or viral nuclei. This is compounded by the fact that many of them wear them day to day. I have not once seen “the system” treat them as a hazmat or direct them to disposed of properly. Add in that people touch things, touch their masks, their faces, eat and drink in between, etc. other than in a known high risk area, I just can’t see where masking does any good beyond stopping large droplets being immediately disseminated. Again, thanks for your input.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:I have not once seen “the system” treat them as a hazmat or direct them to disposed of properly.

Masks are not considered hazmat, even in medical and dental offices unless they are saturated to the point that fluid would be expressed by compression. I've never once had that happen in 30+ years of dental practice, but I suppose it could happen in surgery with a direct impact from an arterial bleed. A mask is no more hazmat than a Kleenex and can be disposed of in regular trash. I'd imagine that most hospitals use a segregated disposal chain when dealing with known Covid patients, but that certainly doesn't apply to the general public.

I had a acquaintance who once wore a N95 mask for 8 hours while working in a store. After work he removed the mask and started driving home. Within a couple minutes he got a pounding headache. While still driving his legs started to go numb. While still driving he started to have severe respiratory problems. Literally thought he was having a heart attack and had to pull off on the side of the road. He called his wife to come get him.

I can’t recall what the actual diagnosis was but bottom line was his doc told him never ever wear any mask for prolonged periods especially a N95 mask. His body had a reaction of some sort after he removed the mask. Their are many studies out there warning on prolonged mask usage causing acute respiratory problems. Right now we have a good many people so frightened I doubt they remove them to sleep.

The tv is going to be full of lawyer commercials in the not too distant future that if you wore this or that manufactures mask for more than X amount of hours a day you may be due a large financial compensation. No thanks on the mask.

quote:

Originally posted by OKCGene:
I'm not taking either side of this discussion.

I had Covid and spent 11 days in the hospital, was home for a week and started getting rapid heart beats. That put me back in the hospital for 3 days because it was, as I was told by multiple doctors, a side effect of Covid was AFIB. They got me back in sinus rhythm, the AFIB has not returned, I am on meds for that. AFIB is some scary and deadly stuff.

Having said all that, I'm asking WHY the general population can't get real N95 masks? All I've seen for sale for the last 18 months or so is those worthless surgical type cheap paper flimsy masks. You know the ones I'm talking about.

So, why are there no real N95 masks being pumped out for the general population?

If you want to get past this COVID fiasco situation, where are the N95 masks?

I would not mind wearing a real N95 mask if it would help to control COVID, but all we see are these cheap crappy ineffective paper masks. Worthless crap.

Thanks for letting me pop in to this thread, and thanks to Para for keeping things here under control. And thanks to Barndog for his thoughts.
.

I found a local source for 3M model 8210 N95s (at about $2.50 each): the Paint department of Home Depot. Made in USA. Had looked several times for them in the safety section (in Tools Dept.); nothing but the no-name KN95s. The other 3M model in Paint has the exhalation valve. I've been cautioned that these are great also, unless you are actively infected. They're in boxes of ten for something like $22.
They are available on-line also. As the Dr. is saying, fit is very important in effectiveness; facial hair growth, and jaw length/shape come into play. Given you may still be under a physician's care; seek their advice and recommendations also.

quote:

Originally posted by lastmanstanding:
I had a acquaintance who once wore a N95 mask for 8 hours while working in a store. After work he removed the mask and started driving home. Within a couple minutes he got a pounding headache. While still driving his legs started to go numb. While still driving he started to have severe respiratory problems. Literally thought he was having a heart attack and had to pull off on the side of the road. He called his wife to come get him.

I can’t recall what the actual diagnosis was but bottom line was his doc told him never ever wear any mask for prolonged periods especially a N95 mask. His body had a reaction of some sort after he removed the mask. Their are many studies out there warning on prolonged mask usage causing acute respiratory problems. Right now we have a good many people so frightened I doubt they remove them to sleep.

The tv is going to be full of lawyer commercials in the not too distant future that if you wore this or that manufactures mask for more than X amount of hours a day you may be due a large financial compensation. No thanks on the mask.

Exactly why OSHA (working with NIOSH and others) developed their fit testing protocols and regulations. For years, folks would be given masks/respirators with no health evaluation other than a check-list and the blessing of their supervisor. Quite a few people with underlying health conditions, and working hard for hours in often adverse conditions began to drop. They should be worn only while you are at risk of exposure and with breaks. I learned years ago that wearing an N95 (that is fitted properly) is the rough equivalent of adding about 25 pounds for your system to accommadate. It's a bit of a rabbithole, but during public health emergencies, those requirements for fit testing can be relaxed. Best guidance; check with your primary care physician before wearing them (as I did; my doc advised me to go N95, not face mask of cheap fabric).

quote:

Originally posted by konata88:
Unless we’re wearing masks ad infinitum, does N95 really matter? The virus is out there. It’s crossed species. We either find a true vaccine or we accept that 1% will perish on the path to global herd immunity. Are there any other real outcomes? Seems like anything else is just delaying the inevitable.

This point should be addressed by everyone!

As an FYI for those of us with school age children, make the appointment to get them test as soon as they show symptoms. Don't wait the 4 days then try to get the appointment.

My oldest started on Thursday with sore throat, nausea, runny nose. By Saturday, he added loss of taste. Today, I'm trying to make him an appointment to get tested and the earliest I can get him in is Tuesday. Walgreen's site will automatically only allow appointments to be made 4 days after the date you entered that symptoms started. Had I tried to make the appoinment on Thursday, I'm sure I would have received an earlier appointment.

What is the test going to do?

I wonder if barndg00 will weigh in on the concerns about Antibody Dependent Enhancement.. When vaccines
were trying to be developed for sars cov1 the animals developed antibodies for the spike protein. Later as they were exposed to the actual virus the vaccinated animals had more death and serious disease than the unvaccinated animals. Ferrets I believe. This issue has been raised with the current vaccines and and it may become an issue. See the attached articles.

Infection-enhancing anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies recognize both the original Wuhan/D614G strain and Delta variants. A potential risk for mass vaccination?

https://www.journalofinfection...(21)00392-3/fulltext

Highlights
•
Infection-enhancing antibodies have been detected in symptomatic Covid-19.
•
Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) is a potential concern for vaccines.
•
Enhancing antibodies recognize both the Wuhan strain and delta variants.
•
ADE of delta variants is a potential risk for current vaccines.
•
Vaccine formulations lacking ADE epitope are suggested.

Abstract

Antibody dependent enhancement (ADE) of infection is a safety concern for vaccine strategies. In a recent publication, Li et al. (Cell 184 :4203–4219, 2021) have reported that infection-enhancing antibodies directed against the N-terminal domain (NTD) of the SARS-CoV-2 spike protein facilitate virus infection in vitro, but not in vivo. However, this study was performed with the original Wuhan/D614G strain. Since the Covid-19 pandemic is now dominated with Delta variants, we analyzed the interaction of facilitating antibodies with the NTD of these variants. Using molecular modeling approaches, we show that enhancing antibodies have a higher affinity for Delta variants than for Wuhan/D614G NTDs. We show that enhancing antibodies reinforce the binding of the spike trimer to the host cell membrane by clamping the NTD to lipid raft microdomains. This stabilizing mechanism may facilitate the conformational change that induces the demasking of the receptor binding domain. As the NTD is also targeted by neutralizing antibodies, our data suggest that the balance between neutralizing and facilitating antibodies in vaccinated individuals is in favor of neutralization for the original Wuhan/D614G strain. However, in the case of the Delta variant, neutralizing antibodies have a decreased affinity for the spike protein, whereas facilitating antibodies display a strikingly increased affinity. Thus, ADE may be a concern for people receiving vaccines based on the original Wuhan strain spike sequence (either mRNA or viral vectors). Under these circumstances, second generation vaccines with spike protein formulations lacking structurally-conserved ADE-related epitopes should be considered.

much more at links:

Another source https://www.journalofinfection...-4453%2821%2900392-3

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
As an FYI for those of us with school age children, make the appointment to get them test as soon as they show symptoms. Don't wait the 4 days then try to get the appointment.

My oldest started on Thursday with sore throat, nausea, runny nose. By Saturday, he added loss of taste. Today, I'm trying to make him an appointment to get tested and the earliest I can get him in is Tuesday. Walgreen's site will automatically only allow appointments to be made 4 days after the date you entered that symptoms started. Had I tried to make the appoinment on Thursday, I'm sure I would have received an earlier appointment.

Give him some vitamin C, D, and Zinc. Helps with colds or COVID. If it's just allergies then there is no negative side effects to vitamins. Don't give him more than whatever the recommended dosing is on the bottle, excessive vitamins can possibly cause problems, but usually your body will just piss them out.

Also have you considered just going into a walk in clinic? I had my test done in 20 minutes, not sure if my insurance paid for it or the government, but I never got a bill.

Eric Clapton Releases New Song Pushing Back Against COVID Dictates and Totalitarian Government, “This Has Gotta Stop”

It’s good to have slowhand on team freedom. Legendary singer and songwriter Eric Clapton has released a new song in defense of freedom as the totalitarian dictates of the various COVID authorities destroy the lives of people everywhere. WATCH:

Quick update on the Israeli vaccine data

https://alexberenson.substack....-the-israeli-vaccine

I have a bigger Stack planned on the Pfizer trial results.

But Israel has gone back to being more transparent, and the new data are now too bad not to highlight.

A reminder - Israel and the United Kingdom were the two major countries that vaccinated earliest and most aggressively. And they are much better at providing data than the United States - they provide updates every day, which limits their opportunities to manipulate it.

Israel is now segmenting the number of serious cases by vaccinated and unvaccinated and by age on its primary data dashboard, available here:

https://datadashboard.health.g...&utm_medium=referral

You can use Google translate and check it for yourself. It’s actually pretty straightforward.

So here’s the chart of new serious cases each day:



As you can see, new serious cases have risen 10-fold since the beginning of July - from roughly five a day to about 40 over the last week. The overall number of patients has soared too - from 30 to more than 200.

But how many of those people are vaccinated?

The vast majority. Israel has broken out the data in various ways at various times, but throughout July most new patients were vaccinated.

In an effort to play down that reality, Israel has begun to provide data comparing RATES of serious illness in older people who were not vaccinated and those who were. And those show that as of now, unvaccinated people are still becoming seriously ill significantly more frequently than those who aren’t.

But that comparison hides a very big problem.

Israel did an excellent job convincing people over 60 to be vaccinated. Only about 1 person in 15 in that age range didn’t receive at least one dose. Fewer than 1 in 10 is not fully vaccinated.

Why should you care? Because the tiny fraction of older people who are unvaccinated in Israel at this point are almost certainly materially different than the vast majority who are. As far as I know, the Israel government hasn’t broken out the differences. But given the pressure to vaccinate, a significant number of those older unvaccinated people are likely simply too sick to tolerate the vaccine - especially those over 80, where overall vaccination rates are even higher.

But if they are too sick to tolerate the vaccine, they are obviously at much higher risk from Covid than the vaccinate. In other words, ability (and propensity) to be vaccinated is likely a marker for overall health. Researchers know this is true of the influenza vaccine - once they adjust for the fact that older people who get the vaccine are healthier to start than than those who don’t, the advantage the vaccine seems to offer mostly disappears.

So the comparison between vaccinated and unvaccinated isn’t useful.

What is useful is examining the trend among serious illness in older vaccinated people.

And it is terrible. The rate of cases has risen 12-fold IN A MONTH. On July 4th, fewer than 1 older vaccinated person in 100,000 became seriously ill. Today the rate is 10 in 100,000.

Remember - comparing unvaccinated and vaccinated at this point hardly matters. THE DARK GREEN LINE IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS:



And though we cannot be sure what will happen next, it is worth noting that rates of serious illness among the vaccinated are now as high as they were among the unvaccinated only TWO WEEKS AGO. Perhaps that’s why the Israeli government is now predicting a further quadrupling of new serious cases by the end of August:



A quadrupling would represent 800 serious cases, approaching the peak of the winter surge (which was itself probably FUELED by a spike in cases following the first vaccine dose) - and far more than at this time last year.

And remember, Israel CANNOT BLAME THE UNVACCINATED FOR THIS SPIKE - around 85 percent of adults over 30 are fully vaccinated. That’s well above the range experts said would provide herd immunity.

And yet instead of pulling back and at least considering a pause on vaccinations as it digests the disaster of the last month, Israel is going the other way - pushing a third dose on the elderly. Meanwhile the cry to mandate or quasi-mandate vaccinations in the United States is only getting louder.

—

quote:

Remember - comparing unvaccinated and vaccinated at this point hardly matters. THE DARK GREEN LINE IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS:

It seems like it does matter since according to that graph, the unvaccinated make up the majority of severe illness by a factor of four in a country that is over 85% vaccinated.

quote:

And yet instead of pulling back and at least considering a pause on vaccinations as it digests the disaster of the last month, Israel is going the other way - pushing a third dose on the elderly. Meanwhile the cry to mandate or quasi-mandate vaccinations in the United States is only getting louder.

And yet they don’t to seem to have the ability to recognize that, it may not be virus A that is infecting people-most likely it’s the D variant….which is a whole other virus and vaccine for virus A won’t work on it.

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
What is the test going to do?

To return to school, the student needs to meet one of two criteria: the student needs to have a negative test and be asymptotic, or the student has to wait ten days from symptom onset, be fever free for 24 hours, and other symptoms have to be improving. Basically, a negative test will let him go back to school sooner.

I’m my, my wife’s, and my other two children’s cases, we all have similar symptoms that started a day or two after the oldest’s. A negative test for the oldest would eliminate the need for further testing for the rest of us.

quote:

Originally posted by Oregon:

quote:

Remember - comparing unvaccinated and vaccinated at this point hardly matters. THE DARK GREEN LINE IS THE ONE THAT COUNTS:

It seems like it does matter since according to that graph, the unvaccinated make up the majority of severe illness by a factor of four in a country that is over 85% vaccinated.

"Why should you care? Because the tiny fraction of older people who are unvaccinated in Israel at this point are almost certainly materially different than the vast majority who are. As far as I know, the Israel government hasn’t broken out the differences. But given the pressure to vaccinate, a significant number of those older unvaccinated people are likely simply too sick to tolerate the vaccine - especially those over 80, where overall vaccination rates are even higher.

But if they are too sick to tolerate the vaccine, they are obviously at much higher risk from Covid than the vaccinate. In other words, ability (and propensity) to be vaccinated is likely a marker for overall health. Researchers know this is true of the influenza vaccine - once they adjust for the fact that older people who get the vaccine are healthier to start than than those who don’t, the advantage the vaccine seems to offer mostly disappears."

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

Give him some vitamin C, D, and Zinc. Helps with colds or COVID. If it's just allergies then there is no negative side effects to vitamins. Don't give him more than whatever the recommended dosing is on the bottle, excessive vitamins can possibly cause problems, but usually your body will just piss them out.

Also have you considered just going into a walk in clinic? I had my test done in 20 minutes, not sure if my insurance paid for it or the government, but I never got a bill.

He’s a Vitamin D factory with all the outdoor swimming everyday, plus the milk he drinks. But I’ll get some C and Zinc. He just had a third helping of biscuits and gravy, so I'm not too worried about him.

The one walk-in clinic I called won’t have the result’s any sooner because they send the sample to a lab.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:


"Why should you care? Because the tiny fraction of older people who are unvaccinated in Israel at this point are almost certainly materially different than the vast majority who are. As far as I know, the Israel government hasn’t broken out the differences. But given the pressure to vaccinate, a significant number of those older unvaccinated people are likely simply too sick to tolerate the vaccine - especially those over 80, where overall vaccination rates are even higher.

But if they are too sick to tolerate the vaccine, they are obviously at much higher risk from Covid than the vaccinate. In other words, ability (and propensity) to be vaccinated is likely a marker for overall health. Researchers know this is true of the influenza vaccine - once they adjust for the fact that older people who get the vaccine are healthier to start than than those who don’t, the advantage the vaccine seems to offer mostly disappears."

There is a boatload of conjecture in those two paragraphs. I spent five minutes on the Israeli dashboard that the author provided. Looking at the active patients across all age ranges, the unvaccinated still outstrip the vaccinated in every single range.

Israel battles increase in severe Covid-19 cases, record infection rate

August 29, 2021

https://www.i24news.tv/en/news...ecord-infection-rate

Health Ministry official Prof Nachman Ash predicts infections will slow with the third booster vaccine

In the last 24 hours 7,071 new cases of coronavirus infection were diagnosed out of 102,935 screening tests carried out, reflecting an infection rate of 7.09%, the Israeli Health Ministry said on Sunday.

Of the 1,175 people hospitalized 726 patients are in serious condition, including 149 who are being placed on artificial ventilators.

The reproduction factor R has been declining since the start of the month, however, and currently stands at 1.11.

Four days before the start of the school year, the Health Ministry's director-general Prof Nachman Ash, said he was in favor of children returning to class on the scheduled date - Wednesday, September 1 - despite the data.

Ash predicted a slowdown in infections, which he says should result directly from the campaign for a third dose of the Covid-19 vaccine, Channel 12 reported on Friday evening.



Israel to offer booster shots to all ages, cuts Green Pass duration

https://www.israelnationalnews...ews/News.aspx/312641

All vaccinated Israelis will be eligible to receive a third booster shot of the COVID vaccine, Israel’s Health Ministry announced Sunday afternoon.

In a press conference Sunday, Health Ministry director-general Nachman Ash announced that effective immediately, the age limit on COVID booster shots has been dropped, enabling anyone over the age of 12 who has received the first two doses of the vaccine to get a third shot.

The announcement comes just days after the Health Ministry expanded the booster shot program to all vaccinated Israelis over the age of 30.

Health Minister Nitzan Horowitz (Meretz) said at Sunday's press conference that it remains too early to tell whether the ongoing booster shot campaign has effectively halted the latest wave of the COVID pandemic, Israel's fourth since early 2020.

Along with the expansion of the booster shot program, Health Ministry officials also announced Sunday that the validity of green passes issued following full vaccination will now be limited to six months after the second dose.

Last week, Interior Minister Ayelet Shaked (Yamina) called on the government to cancel green passes for Israelis who have yet to receive the booster shot.

"I believe that the moment the third dose is available to everyone, the green pass should be taken away from anyone who has got vaccinated only twice."

Further changes to vaccination policy announced Sunday include the reduction of isolation for travelers returning from abroad from seven days to 24 hours, if they have received three doses of the vaccine.

I really don't get the censorship and de-platforming. I mean if they want more people to get vaxxed do they think this is going to help?
No, it makes me MORE distrustful of the people pushing me to get vaxxed...


Twitter Permanently Bans Alex Berenson After Viral COVID Tweets

Sunday, Aug 29, 2021

It was never a matter of if, but when.

Science journalist Alex Berenson has been permanently suspended from Twitter, just one day after a viral series of tweets spotlighting an Israeli preprint study which showed that natural immunity from a prior Covid-19 infection is 13 times more effective than vaccines against the delta variant.

"The account you referenced has been permanently suspended for repeated violations of our COVID-19 misinformation rules," a Twitter spokesperson told Fox News.

The last tweet he posted, meanwhile, accurately noted that the vaccine "doesn't stop infection. Or transmission."

"Don't think of it as a vaccine," he added. "Think of it - at best - as a therapeutic with a limited window of efficacy and terrible side effect profile that must be dosed IN ADVANCE OF ILLNESS."

"And we want to mandate it? Insanity."

"This was the tweet that did it. Entirely accurate. I can’t wait to hear what a jury will make of this," wrote Berenson on his substack blog, Unreported Truths.



https://www.zerohedge.com/covi...n-after-viral-tweets