SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2)
Main Page The Lounge When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2)Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Member |
The Evil Queen of Michigan is apparently all set to extend the lock down to May 15. Not by affected counties (Wayne) but state wide. U.P. population: 311K Cases: 70. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Member |
Just glad you are Ok and appreciate your input.. I'm alright it's the rest of the world that's all screwed up! | |||
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| Member |
We had a mobile testing facility hit our District on the 14th or 15th of April. This was the blood test, which tells if you have the virus and/or the anti-bodies. 7 days to get the results. 2 Sgts got the results back today- positive. Both feel ZERO SYMPTOMS. No flu, no fever, no aches. One of the Sgts ran 6 miles after he got the news, the other kicked back with his dog and probably a 12pk. The two are "quarantined" for at least the next week. ______________________________________________________________________ "When its time to shoot, shoot. Dont talk!" “What the government is good at is collecting taxes, taking away your freedoms and killing people. It’s not good at much else.” —Author Tom Clancy | |||
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Be prepared for loud noise and recoil |
Thanks Doc for your measured words. Had you’d not already had a CUT, I’d nominate you for “The Virus Whisperer”. “Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant.” – James Madison "Keep your fears to yourself, but share your courage with others." - Robert Louis Stevenson | |||
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Domari Nolo |
I have to admit, Trump unfortunately seemed pretty loopy at last night's press conference. I mean, asking the medical/science professionals to look into using isopropyl alcohol and sunlight directly inside the human body to "clean out the virus"? I know he's not a doctor and he's an optimistic guy and likes to be open-minded about possible treatments, but damn. He really looked foolish, and I could tell the other experts in the room were thinking "holy shit, please shut up". This was a rare bad news conference that otherwise was delivering really good news about how the virus can be easily killed by sunlight, heat, humidity and chemicals. I hope things go better today. | |||
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| Member |
Just another example in a long list of why I hate the damn media. Deliberate misleading by leaving out that "little" fact or just that damn stupid??? Either way...F'em all. I had a hard time finding some, but a few days ago I bought a bottle of rubbing alcohol for a whopping $1.49. Speaking of stupid....a lawyer in Kentucky was charged for threatening their governor. This was a social media exchange concerning some rally and the lawyer was arrested for threatening to kill the governor. No way in hell is this a direct threat that should be charged. Just more PC thought police enforcing their nonsense and not allowing any dissent. There's a rally tomorrow in Frankfurt and Lansing," Troutman allegedly wrote. "Will the Governor be there shooting plates?" asked an unidentified person. "With any luck the gov will be the one at whom the shooting will be directed," Troutman allegedly responded.This message has been edited. Last edited by: tleo205, | |||
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Member |
If you've watched enough of the briefings it wasn't an anomaly. | |||
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Wait, what? |
Trump's biggest problem is that he likes to be deeply involved in every step of every process. His inner CEO trying to get out all of the time. It's clear that he loves this country and wants to reassure the people but he doesn't need to comment on every last thing mentioned. “Remember to get vaccinated or a vaccinated person might get sick from a virus they got vaccinated against because you’re not vaccinated.” - author unknown | |||
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Coin Sniper |
Unfortunately that simple comment provided unlimited fuel for his detractors. They'll milk this to the end of time if he doesn't come up with a very quick and amazingly sharp clarification. Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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| Member |
I tend to recall bleach being a helluva lot stronger and more potent that rubbing alcohol? But my facts could be blurry. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
‘Flattening the Curve,’ And Other Lies A message to the disaster brokers who think they are our superiors. To our betters in the American ruling class: Just a note to say thanks for giving us a much-needed lesson in the wisdom of our Founding Fathers, who were not shy at all in admonishing us to be wary of surrendering the kind of government power you people have wielded, supposedly for our benefit, since the Chinese Communist virus hit our shores at some indeterminate point in the recent, or maybe not-so-recent, past. You told us that Patient Zero in America for the Wuhan ChiCom virus came to Seattle and first landed in a hospital on January 19. You built an entire response to the virus based on that, and three months later more than 26 million Americans are out of work, and the projections are that some 24 percent of our economy will have evaporated in the second quarter of this year thanks to that response. In the meantime we’ve watched, on our TVs and computer screens, as moms and dads have been arrested for taking their kids to the park, as some of you have issued edicts preventing us from traveling from one property we own to another, as some of you are attempting to mandate that we wear masks in public, and as some of you are shutting down events and gatherings even eight months from now, as though you have crystal balls to see what the future so far out will hold. What you’ve done has made an abject mockery of the idea we have God-given, unassailable rights. Instead what we have are permissions from our political betters. Thomas Jefferson and Samuel Adams would be busy decorating trees with your hides for less than we’ve tolerated from you in the past three months. And why? Because they knew what we’ve apparently forgotten — as another of the titans of our past once said, “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Ben Franklin wouldn’t have a particularly fond judgment of what we’ve let you do lately. Because what he knew, and what Jefferson and the rest knew, was that a government to which you surrender your natural rights will shortly abuse and debase them, and the power to whom it’s been ceded won’t easily be reclaimed by the people. Some of us are beginning to remember this. More of us will recognize it as evidence of your perfidy and incompetence mounts. After all, several things are true. First, most of you spent several decades essentially rewarding Red China for the Tiananmen Square massacre by throwing open trade and granting the most murderous political apparatus in human history Most Favored Nation trade status. The result of that has been to help build a hostile world superpower rival we didn’t have after the fall of the Soviet Union, at the expense of our manufacturing base. You thought that was a good idea, partially because you’re naive and stupid and partially because you were bought off, but what we ended up with is a rogue regime that cooks up infectious diseases in laboratories, incompetently lets them out into the open and proceeds to lie about them for months while the World Health Organization, which you put us on the hook to fund with hundreds of millions of dollars of our money, covers up for China despite their providing barely a tenth of what we do. Great move. Then, while you tell us this virus is nothing to worry about, you build a response based on the numbers and data coming from that lying rogue regime and the incompetent government of Italy, which it turns out presides over a perfect storm of an atrocious socialized medicine regime and a teeming cesspool of sweatshop Chinese labor, coupled with an innovative method of counting every conceivable death related to the virus whether actual or not, as a virus death. You throw all of that garbage into data models built and funded by apocalyptic leftists with extensive dealings with the Chinese, and proceed to govern by them. It doesn’t occur to you until weeks later, when those models utterly fail to predict anything like the real impact of the virus, that what they reflect is garbage in, garbage out. And one main reason your models fail so completely is the public health bureaucrats you put all your faith in never even bothered to wonder what it would mean if the Chinese communists were lying to us about the virus. Namely, that if they denied its existence for two months, the virus was probably everywhere long before your response kicked in, and shutting down the American economy was a tragic waste of lives, livelihoods, and capital. We now know this was the case, because at long last somebody is finally doing antibody testing — and as they conduct studies in places like California, where the virus would have spread earliest, they’re finding out what was obvious to lots of people. It turns out Patient Zero wasn’t Zero at all — at least two people had died of the virus well before the “outbreak” supposedly started. What that means is we were a lot further along this curve you told us putting us under house arrest was going to flatten than you knew. And because we were further along that curve, the potential impact of the virus on our health-care system was never even remotely close to what your awful data models said it would be. That’s OK, though. Lives are more important than money, right? Except you’ve spent decades pushing government programs aimed at redistributing wealth on us based on the premise, which we’ve been promised is true (and might well be), that poverty, unemployment, and social isolation create catastrophic health outcomes. So making the whole country broke, unemployed, and unable to interact in person with their friends is now a good idea … because of this virus? Well, how dangerous is the virus? Well, it could kill more than two million of us, and everybody is at risk. Or maybe more like 250,000 of us, most of whom are old. Or, perhaps it’s more like 100,000 of us, and the vast majority have serious health issues like morbid obesity, hypertension, diabetes, or are immunocompromised. Or maybe it’s 60,000. Which is a number more like a bad flu season. But we don’t dare call this the flu! It’s 10 times more dangerous than the flu. Well, not unless you’re over 60 and have those comorbidities. If you’re 45 or younger and you’re healthy, the flu is probably more likely to kill you than the Chinese coronavirus. And then those studies come out and — guess what! — this virus has about the same fatality rate, once you project all the people who’ve actually had it, as the flu. Wonder what the numbers would have looked like if you hadn’t copied the Italians’ model of chalking up everybody who even thought of having the virus as a virus death. Sometimes you’re not even testing people before assigning their deaths to the virus. Hey, running up the score is good for getting federal disaster funding, right? Better make sure the public stays scared! But the medical system was going to be overwhelmed, and so we had to “flatten the curve” and keep everybody home and socially distanced. Because that would keep us from getting the virus. Or actually, no, it wouldn’t, because everybody ultimately gets the virus. We just needed to make sure we didn’t all get it at the same time, because the hospitals would fill up. And it’s a good thing we shut the economy down, because the hospitals didn’t fill up. In fact, the hospitals are empty, and they’re laying off doctors and nurses. Y’know, the doctors and nurses who are such heroes that nobody is supposed to get mad when they harangue people who question whether or not this is as serious as they make it out to be on the six o’clock news. Those doctors and nurses — they’re swamped with patients, you know. When they’re not laid off because there are no patients to see. By the way, thanks for designing such a precise, well-thought-out shutdown. After all, it makes perfect sense that you can get an abortion but not a colonoscopy. No need to explain why Walmart is selling shirts while Macy’s is shuttered. Or why surfing or golfing alone are prohibited, because “social distancing,” but buying lottery tickets is cool. Or why you can’t get a haircut unless you’re a mayor or governor who “has” to go on TV to preen at a press conference daily. Or why buying booze is OK but going to the gym is dangerous. That has all made perfect sense. Good job on thinking all that through. Just imagine how bad it would have been if you hadn’t shut the economy down. Look at what those data models showed! You guys are real heroes. We shouldn’t be upset at all about losing our jobs. We should be thanking you for free government swag and unemployment checks … which in some cases are more than our jobs were paying, and so those businesses you shuttered can’t reopen because they can’t bring back their employees who have no motivation to get back to work. But now that you saved the health-care system from being overloaded (not from being shut down like all the other businesses, though, which means you’ve damaged it in other ways with stupid public policy), it’s time to go back to work, right? Well, no. No, you tell us, you have to be careful about how you do that. Too much freedom is a bad thing, right? We have to embrace the “new normal.” The “new normal” means we can go back to work when you tell us, and we can live our lives how you dictate we can. And why? Because we don’t want a “second wave” of the outbreak. Wait, why would we have a second wave? Because not everybody got the virus in the first wave. And until everybody has more or less had it you can’t get to “herd immunity,” which is how these viruses are defeated. But the virus ultimately spreads everywhere. We know this because there have been viruses spreading since there have been people for them to spread to, and that’s how a coronavirus works. So why wouldn’t we want to just get this over with and protect the people most vulnerable to the virus? Because that would be irresponsible, right? You have to — how does it go? — “test, trace, isolate” before you can let people do what they want. You might even need to give people “immunity papers” proving they’re safe to be around before you’ll let them go to work at their “non-essential” jobs or eat at a restaurant. We promise we won’t notice none of that was in the initial justification for forcing us to stay home. We wouldn’t suspect you guys of bad faith for having bait-and-switched us like that. Because we know that if we did notice, and we did express dissatisfaction, we would be descended upon by our betters at the Big Tech companies, who are doing us a big favor by censoring “misinformation” about the virus like for example people questioning the WHO or noting the virus likely came out of a Chinese bioweapons lab. Or we’ll get arrested because protesting is “non-essential.” Or maybe we’ll just be griped at by the hordes of busybody Karens across the country who call us “selfish” for wondering whether this wasn’t all just a too-costly overreaction. No, we won’t do any of that. We’ll just say thanks, and that you’re really doing a hell of a job. Seriously. Literally. You’re doing a hell of a job. Signed, The irritated, unwashed, and involuntarily broke American people. https://spectator.org/flatteni...urve-and-other-lies/ "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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Member |
Cooper is a hyper political dimwit Democrat ass-clown. He's using the crisis to drum up re-election campaign donations while his Republican opponent (Dan Forest) is out giving away his campaign funds to people and businesses affected by the crisis.
--------------------------------------- It's like my brain's a tree and you're those little cookie elves. | |||
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| Member |
Chellim, thanks for posting one hell of a good article! It mentioned one thing that particularly pisses me off for some reason...the nurses, docs etc counter protesting. They are doing a great job which deserve our thanks,but at least they have jobs and a paycheck and it ticks me off to see them telling me I have to just accept and continue to hide. Too many hospitals and doctor offices continue to lay off workers because of idiots in charge have forbidden them to treat anyone else but CCP virus patients that never were going to overwhelm them. The huge Wake Forest Baptist Health Care system here in NC just announced forced furloughs because they have nothing for the staff to do. Way to go Cooper, and all you other f'ing idiots! | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
The data is in — stop the panic and end the total isolation The tragedy of the COVID-19 pandemic appears to be entering the containment phase. Tens of thousands of Americans have died, and Americans are now desperate for sensible policymakers who have the courage to ignore the panic and rely on facts. Leaders must examine accumulated data to see what has actually happened, rather than keep emphasizing hypothetical projections; combine that empirical evidence with fundamental principles of biology established for decades; and then thoughtfully restore the country to function. Five key facts are being ignored by those calling for continuing the near-total lockdown. Fact 1: The overwhelming majority of people do not have any significant risk of dying from COVID-19. The recent Stanford University antibody study now estimates that the fatality rate if infected is likely 0.1 to 0.2 percent, a risk far lower than previous World Health Organization estimates that were 20 to 30 times higher and that motivated isolation policies. In New York City, an epicenter of the pandemic with more than one-third of all U.S. deaths, the rate of death for people 18 to 45 years old is 0.01 percent, or 11 per 100,000 in the population. On the other hand, people aged 75 and over have a death rate 80 times that. For people under 18 years old, the rate of death is zero per 100,000. Of all fatal cases in New York state, two-thirds were in patients over 70 years of age; more than 95 percent were over 50 years of age; and about 90 percent of all fatal cases had an underlying illness. Of 6,570 confirmed COVID-19 deaths fully investigated for underlying conditions to date, 6,520, or 99.2 percent, had an underlying illness. If you do not already have an underlying chronic condition, your chances of dying are small, regardless of age. And young adults and children in normal health have almost no risk of any serious illness from COVID-19. Fact 2: Protecting older, at-risk people eliminates hospital overcrowding. We can learn about hospital utilization from data from New York City, the hotbed of COVID-19 with more than 34,600 hospitalizations to date. For those under 18 years of age, hospitalization from the virus is 0.01 percent per 100,000 people; for those 18 to 44 years old, hospitalization is 0.1 percent per 100,000. Even for people ages 65 to 74, only 1.7 percent were hospitalized. Of 4,103 confirmed COVID-19 patients with symptoms bad enough to seek medical care, Dr. Leora Horwitz of NYU Medical Center concluded "age is far and away the strongest risk factor for hospitalization." Even early WHO reports noted that 80 percent of all cases were mild, and more recent studies show a far more widespread rate of infection and lower rate of serious illness. Half of all people testing positive for infection have no symptoms at all. The vast majority of younger, otherwise healthy people do not need significant medical care if they catch this infection. Fact 3: Vital population immunity is prevented by total isolation policies, prolonging the problem. We know from decades of medical science that infection itself allows people to generate an immune response — antibodies — so that the infection is controlled throughout the population by “herd immunity.” Indeed, that is the main purpose of widespread immunization in other viral diseases — to assist with population immunity. In this virus, we know that medical care is not even necessary for the vast majority of people who are infected. It is so mild that half of infected people are asymptomatic, shown in early data from the Diamond Princess ship, and then in Iceland and Italy. That has been falsely portrayed as a problem requiring mass isolation. In fact, infected people without severe illness are the immediately available vehicle for establishing widespread immunity. By transmitting the virus to others in the low-risk group who then generate antibodies, they block the network of pathways toward the most vulnerable people, ultimately ending the threat. Extending whole-population isolation would directly prevent that widespread immunity from developing. Fact 4: People are dying because other medical care is not getting done due to hypothetical projections. Critical health care for millions of Americans is being ignored and people are dying to accommodate “potential” COVID-19 patients and for fear of spreading the disease. Most states and many hospitals abruptly stopped “nonessential” procedures and surgery. That prevented diagnoses of life-threatening diseases, like cancer screening, biopsies of tumors now undiscovered and potentially deadly brain aneurysms. Treatments, including emergency care, for the most serious illnesses were also missed. Cancer patients deferred chemotherapy. An estimated 80 percent of brain surgery cases were skipped. Acute stroke and heart attack patients missed their only chances for treatment, some dying and many now facing permanent disability. Fact 5: We have a clearly defined population at risk who can be protected with targeted measures. The overwhelming evidence all over the world consistently shows that a clearly defined group — older people and others with underlying conditions — is more likely to have a serious illness requiring hospitalization and more likely to die from COVID-19. Knowing that, it is a commonsense, achievable goal to target isolation policy to that group, including strictly monitoring those who interact with them. Nursing home residents, the highest risk, should be the most straightforward to systematically protect from infected people, given that they already live in confined places with highly restricted entry. The appropriate policy, based on fundamental biology and the evidence already in hand, is to institute a more focused strategy like some outlined in the first place: Strictly protect the known vulnerable, self-isolate the mildly sick and open most workplaces and small businesses with some prudent large-group precautions. This would allow the essential socializing to generate immunity among those with minimal risk of serious consequence, while saving lives, preventing overcrowding of hospitals and limiting the enormous harms compounded by continued total isolation. Let’s stop underemphasizing empirical evidence while instead doubling down on hypothetical models. Facts matter. Scott W. Atlas, MD, is the David and Joan Traitel Senior Fellow at Stanford University’s Hoover Institution and the former chief of neuroradiology at Stanford University Medical Center. https://thehill.com/opinion/he...-the-total-isolation "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Ammoholic |
I believe bleach is probably generally stronger at killing things. I also believe that Isopropyl alcohol is very strong adt cutting oil and grease. When you consider the structure of the virus (I’ll be sloppy and call it a bit of RNA wrapped in a lipid coating rather that go back 300 pages and look for the scientific description since I think that’s close enough), and consider that a lipid looks a lot like oil to alcohol, you understand how alcohol pretty much immediately strips off the viron’s lipid coating. Bleach likely “kills” the RNA bit, but takes longer to get through the lipid coating. | |||
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safe & sound |
I've got the transcript in front of me, and the words he said do not correspond with this assertion. | |||
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| Member |
And wasnt there a conversation with more than one person going on in the background? I'm alright it's the rest of the world that's all screwed up! | |||
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| safe & sound |
Indeed. Also worth pointing out that scientist and medical pros have been looking at these types of things since long before Trump took office. Some of these have panned out, while others haven't. Using light inside the body?!?!?! Anybody ever heard of a laser being used for anything medically related? | |||
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| Member |
The media can't be bothered with reporting truth.  Especially if it's something they can twist and use against Trump. | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
It's being blown out of proportion. It's only a minute for those who want to see it: "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2)
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