quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
6guns,

You asked about the size of Soleimani funeral

https://www.foxnews.com/scienc...uneral-throng-tehran

pictures at link

Although there was no independent estimate, aerial footage and Associated Press journalists suggested a turnout of at least 1 million.

I read a report 2 days ago many of the ‘mourners’ were required to participate.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
6guns,

You asked about the size of Soleimani funeral

https://www.foxnews.com/scienc...uneral-throng-tehran

pictures at link

Although there was no independent estimate, aerial footage and Associated Press journalists suggested a turnout of at least 1 million.

sdy, thanks for the update. I wouldn't have believed it. But as others have said, maybe many didn't come of their own volition.

CBS being aggressive in their reporting:

.@cbsnews: US officials are confident Ukrainian Flt 752 was shot down by Iran. US intelligence picked up signals of the radar being turned on & satellite detected infrared blips of 2 missile launches, probably SA-15s, followed shortly by another infrared blip of an explosion.

https://twitter.com/krisvancleave CBS news

xxxxxxxxxxxx


think about the situation

U.S. forces kill Soleimani

Iran threatens tremendous attacks

President Trump threatens guarantees massive retaliation if Iran strikes us

The airliner crashed "just hours after Iran fired more than a dozen ballistic missiles targeting two military bases housing American and coalition troops."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/...on-officials-believe

Iranian defenses would have been on high alert and waiting to fire on the potential U.S. retaliation

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


A tragedy in all aspects. BTW, we made such a mistake in 1988.

Yeah, but the plane took off from Tehran. I can see it happening, but that's still a pretty stunning mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Yeah, but the plane took off from Tehran. I can see it happening, but that's still a pretty stunning mistake.

Stunning, perhaps. It's happened before, in this case the USS Vincennes downed an Iranian civilian A320:

https://www.warhistoryonline.c...t-uss-vincennes.html

That links to a general article, I'm sure a highly technical version is also out there.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Yeah, but the plane took off from Tehran. I can see it happening, but that's still a pretty stunning mistake.

The USS Vincennes shot down an airliner accidentally....don't say it can't happen...cause it has and we did it....

The 'fog of war' is ever present and just a fact of life.

Those who have lived it, understand.

The US military has shot down airliners, coalition and US fighters, dropped bombs on civilians and our own troops.

https://theaviationgeekclub.co...missile-battery-oif/

Not excusing the Iranians or our military, individuals need to be held accountable but it even happens with the best of intentions.

Things aren't nearly as clean and neat as those who report it say it is.

On the subject of the number of mourners at the funeral, I don't personally doubt that a number of attendees were, in fact, there of their own volition. I submit that there has to be a reservoir of batsh*t crazy in the world, and they have to live somewhere.

Maybe a significant number of Iranian common folk really don't hate us, but I'm not betting on that dark horse.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmund:
Stunning, perhaps. It's happened before:

It's happened as recently as ~6 years ago, when Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was shot down by a Russian SAM near the Ukraine/Russia border during the Russian invasion of the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:

The USS Vincennes shot down an airliner accidentally....don't say it can't happen...cause it has and we did it....

She tied up behind us in Subic right after that. I never saw anybody leave her the whole time she was there.

In '03 a U.S. Patriot battery in Iraq shot down an F-18 piloted by Lt. Nathan White. Killed him.

The fog of war makes things messy.

I remember that day. I was Senior Controller on Swing Shift (1500-2300hrs) and we had a TV in the room, always on CNN with the volume down, unless something came on.

Got a call from the Command Post (near end of shift) that an incident in the Persian Gulf involving the Navy had occurred and to expect "traffic" (more information that could affect our standing and aircraft operation tempo).

A while later, (I stayed over to mid shift, as we were preparing for possible activation to higher threat conditions) we found out threat level conditions were going up, and that the Navy splashed a possible inbound attack, either missile or aircraft. (An Exocet was fired into the Stark a year before, and Silkworms were fired by Iran several times, so that is what was the buzz).

Unfortunate, but when people are engaged in hot diplomacy and have their guns pointed at each other, best to do your best to not look like you are doing anything that can be taken as hostile.

And the "what did we know and when did we know it" along with "walking the steps in the speed and path as it unfolds" makes it understandable that a thing happened as it did.

Lessons learned and actions and procedures taken and developed, are much different today, than then. Our intelligence, information and communication has greatly improved.

But expect "shit to happen".

quote:

Originally posted by Kraquin:


In '03 a U.S. Patriot battery in Iraq shot down an F-18 piloted by Lt. Nathan White. Killed him.

The fog of war makes things messy.

I was at Air Jaber Air base in Kuwait in early '03 when a Tomahawk overflew its target in Iraq and started heading back into Kuwait. There was a lot of scrambling that day!

Last Updated: Sunday, 23 March, 2003, 15:16 GMT

An RAF Tornado and its crew are missing after being downed by a US Patriot missile close to the Kuwaiti border.

The GR4, which is thought to have had a pilot and navigator on board, was from RAF Marham in Norfolk.

Air Marshal Brian Burridge, commander of British troops in the Gulf, said the Tornado had been hit "obviously by mistake" as it returned from a mission over Iraq.

William Farish, the US ambassador to Britain, told the BBC the loss of the plane was "absolutely terrible".

It comes after two helicopter crashes within the last three days led to the deaths of 19 coalition troops, including 14 Britons.

Three ITV news crew are also missing and feared dead, after coming under what their injured colleague claims was "friendly fire".

Lawsuit to follow

And then after that US Army Patriot shot down a UK Tornado and USN F-18, a USAF F-16CJ finally HARM'ed it to shut it down.

https://medium.com/war-is-bori...h-other-bb89d7d03b7d

"U.S. Air Force pilots quickly lost patience with the Army missileers. One day after the Tornado shoot-down, an F-16 pilot was flying over An Najaf in Iraq when a Patriot radar zeroed in on him. The flier fired a HARM anti-radar missile that destroyed the Patriot’s sensor dish but, luckily, did not harm the Army crew.
The Air Force insisted the F-16’s attack was accidental—that the pilot did not know that the radar he was shooting at was a Patriot manned by fellow Americans.
But other airmen were unapologetic. “Those guys were locking us up on a regular basis,” one F-16 pilot said. “No one was hurt when the Patriot was hit, thank God, but from our perspective they’re now down one radar. That’s one radar they can’t target us with any more.”

I had friends who were there and they were constantly IDENT'ing with their IFF systems whenever they got locked up by Patriots with itchy trigger fingers.

And here is what appears to be the clincher - the missile rocket trail, the impact, and the sound of the explosion -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...moments-crashed.html

Iran, the world will judge you now.

https://www.breitbart.com/midd...owned-ukraine-plane/

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Thursday evidence indicates an Iranian missile downed a Ukrainian jetliner late Tuesday and that the strike “may have been unintentional.”

Trudeau says Canadian and allied intelligence supports that. He declined to get into the specific intelligence, but said it appeared it was a surface-to-air missile that struck the plane.

“The intelligence evidence suggests very clearly a possible and probable cause for the crash,” Trudeau told a news conference.

Earlier, U.S. officials said it was “highly likely” that an Iranian anti-aircraft missile downed the jetliner, killing all 176 people on board. They suggested it could well have been a mistake.

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
And here is what appears to be the clincher - the missile rocket trail, the impact, and the sound of the explosion -

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...moments-crashed.html

Iran, the world will judge you now.

Yeah, that looks like a SAM flight profile and impact...

During Desert Storm there was an F-18 coming out of Iraq at aircraft carrier height (I was onboard the USS Ranger when this happened) coming straight at our ship.

We went to general quarter and the aircraft was about 30 second from being shot down before he popped up and was identified as a friendly, not a missile.

Carp happens, especially when someone who wants to be a hero is manning the trigger.