quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Andrew Napolitano thinks she's a true blue American patriot ...Reality Winner may very well be a patriot who risked her career and freedom to warn the American public of what the government was afraid to acknowledge -- that mass spying keeps us neither safe nor free....

Somehow the label of an American Patriot doesn't mesh with "I am white, I am cute, I will braid my hair and cry in court, hide my $30K, I want to burn down the White House, I love ISIS . . . "

Maybe Napolitano has too much cannabis in his system.

Napolitano and some like Hannity have been backed into a corner over their support of Julian Assange. Hannity has invited Assange to co-host his show and Nappy has sung his praises as well (calling him a hero).

Assange immediately tweeted his support for this traitorous scum, and people were waiting to see what Nappy and Hannity had to say about it. If you support leaking classified data, you either support all of it or none of it.

I've said all along that Snowden, Assange and anyone else caught leaking classified data are scum that deserve the maximum punishment under the law. Just like this traitor - death penalty or life with no parole at a minimum.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:...Her motivation seems very clear to me. She didn't do this for the benefit of the country or the American people as a whole. She did this out of pure malice and hatred for President Trump. Quite the contrary to his assumption, she hates America and wanted to harm her.

Rot in hell, loser.

Bingo, bulls-eye, home run. . . .

No bail. Step Dad and Mom are clueless. "She was treated so vile".

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:
As far as the USB being "unlocked", all the .gov computers I have used have the ports locked down.

The USB comment I made was pertaining to this from the article.

quote:

they say that before she left the military, she inserted an external hard drive into a top-secret computer there. They say they don't know what happened to it or what it might contain.

I don't see anything about security was alerted and they apprehended her before leaving the building. What I see is she did this while in the military - got out - somehow retained her security clearance, got a job and then and printed off some documents to carry out of the building. So if they knew she had connected a hard drive (usb port?) then how is all this going on? As para said: incompetence, neglect, complacency.

not much new in this article, but I liked the title and one particular quote:

http://www.washingtonexaminer....nner/article/2625499

The monumental idiocy of leaker Reality Leigh Winner

Prosecutors said they could not grant Winner bond because it would free her up to being recruited by terrorist groups.

Though the bit about joining terrorist groups sounds crazy, the concern is reportedly based on evidence that investigators found in her home. Winner schemed about burning down the White House, fleeing to Afghanistan and joining the Taliban, according to prosecutors.

*******************

There should be classes in high school and college that educate young people how their recorded words and actions can haunt them later.

It is so easy to get caught up in social media where everyone in your group is agreeing w you, no matter how wild your thoughts are.

Barack Obama especially screwed the people who most reliably voted for him. He created an environment where actions had no consequences and bad behavior was praised. "Chickens coming home ..."

It will be important to sentence Winner to substantial prison time. (yes, I already consider her guilty by her own words)

**************

Years ago, getting a TS was hard. Only a certain number of billets were allocated to agencies. This statistic surprised me:

https://www.usatoday.com/story...clearance/102549298/

4.3 million people have U.S. clearances.

Of those, 1.4 million are TS.

That's about 32% for TS. Sounds like we have had significant clearance creep to the high levels.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by Scoutmaster:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Andrew Napolitano thinks she's a true blue American patriot ...Reality Winner may very well be a patriot who risked her career and freedom to warn the American public of what the government was afraid to acknowledge -- that mass spying keeps us neither safe nor free....

Somehow the label of an American Patriot doesn't mesh with "I am white, I am cute, I will braid my hair and cry in court, hide my $30K, I want to burn down the White House, I love ISIS . . . "

Maybe Napolitano has too much cannabis in his system.

Napolitano and some like Hannity have been backed into a corner over their support of Julian Assange. Hannity has invited Assange to co-host his show and Nappy has sung his praises as well (calling him a hero).

Assange immediately tweeted his support for this traitorous scum, and people were waiting to see what Nappy and Hannity had to say about it. If you support leaking classified data, you either support all of it or none of it.

I've said all along that Snowden, Assange and anyone else caught leaking classified data are scum that deserve the maximum punishment under the law. Just like this traitor - death penalty or life with no parole at a minimum.

Agreed, I don't support the leaking of classified data ever, don't care the reason. I also don't care that Assange hacked/leaked the DNC emails, that is their corrupt problem, not a National security issue.

I'm inclined to think Snowden did the citizens of this country a favor.

That's not to say he's innocent of all crimes, or had pure motivations, or that his choices and follow up actions since are without criticism, or that I condone the practice of divulging classified materials, or that some of it wasn't harmful to us, or that the ends necessarily justified the means, or that he's "innocent".

But as a separate matter, however wrong and fucked Snowmen may be, the rest of us are better off knowing the things we now know about the scope and capabilities of our own government's ability and inclination to spy on its own citizens (in a way many believe violates the Constitution), and how many tech companies can't be trusted either, confirming in some ways what many had suspected all along...

Similarly, with Assange, what he's doing in general is a fine idea - there *is* too much crooked bullshit going on that deserves to be exposed and stopped, and a repository for such information (once it's out) makes perfect sense, and maybe a wikileaks type place is even a necessary one in today's age, but he himself is not without blame, mistakes, bad choices, and so on, and I'd never proclaim him "innocent" - figuratively or legally.

I would never call Assange or Snowden a hero, not even some sort of altruistic genius or the like, but I am able to also see the benefit and necessity of some effects of their actions.

I don't think the same can be said about this kooky fool of a girl, or Manning. I've no sympathy for either based on our current degree of insight into it. I only even have a little bit of sympathy for Snowden and Assange anyway. Try them all in court... they all deserve at least that - their day in court - judged by a jury of their peers.

I believe Whistle Blowers - in a broad sense - serve a valuable purpose in some circumstances, and I recognize it's a complicated topic. I'd hate to see attitudes shift such that folks are too afraid to tell the truth when it needs to be told. Sometimes it does...

Again, this girl seems wrong in every sense. A little different, at least.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
But as a separate matter, however wrong and fucked Snowmen may be, the rest of us are better off knowing the things we now know about the scope and capabilities of our own government's ability and inclination to spy on its own citizens (in a way many believe violates the Constitution), and how many tech companies can't be trusted either, confirming in some ways what many had suspected all along...

In what way is your life better off with the specific tools and methods being revealed to our enemies?

It's one thing to confirm what any sentient being with more than a double digit IQ already knew - that the .gov was actively monitoring the internet - it's another to release all of the tools, methods and specific strategies for spying on enemies who wish to kill Americans.

Snowden is scum - I know that's not a very popular opinion here, but if we allow each individual to decide what needs to be declassified based on their feelings, then we might as well fold up shop now because some things need to remain top secret.

I'm still waiting for someone to spill the beans about Area 51

I'm sorry, if your convinced that the public must know because the I formation is that critical to our freedom then you stand up show it to everyone and scream "I'm _______ look what I have!! Look what they're doing!!! "

You better be right and you better be ready to accept the consequences

Reality Winner...this season's Biggest Loser.

Y'know, a thought keeps nagging at me. You don't suppose Reality Winner picked her new first name to go with her old last name after watching too much TV, do you?

Suit yourself, we all have opinions. I don't begrudge you for yours.

Mine is that every single person within our government who had anything at all to do with using those tools to spy on Americans are themselves scum who were wholly in the wrong, and someone should have done something to stop it, and for anything to have gotten that far - it's clear that so many others failed to do the right thing long before Snowden.

This is even worse and even broader than, for instance, someone refusing a single unlawful order, it is and was a systemic cancer, not some trivial disagreement.

Which was the greater evil? I don't believe it was Snowden. But, again, it's just one opinion. Maybe you'd tolerate such things. I wouldn't, not if my government asked me to do something fucked up or exposed to me some horrible secret. Like I said, he's not without fault, but if he's scum he's a little scum in a world of thousand giant ones he worked for.

The government is not infallible nor always acting legally, not is every program, order, etc. If you agree this is true, we basically only disagree about his method, and not even much. If you believe there's never a justification to be a whistle blower, there's nothing to discuss.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
after watching too much TV, do you?

Reality Bytes - Orange is the New Uniform. Initially signed for a 20 year run.

quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:
Suit yourself, we all have opinions. I don't begrudge you for yours.

Mine is that every single person within our government who had anything at all to do with using those tools to spy on Americans are themselves scum who were wholly in the wrong, and someone should have done something to stop it, and for anything to have gotten that far - it's clear that so many others failed to do the right thing long before Snowden.

This is even worse and even broader than, for instance, someone refusing a single unlawful order, it is and was a systemic cancer, not some trivial disagreement.

Which was the greater evil? I don't believe it was Snowden. But, again, it's just one opinion. Maybe you'd tolerate such things. I wouldn't, not if my government asked me to do something fucked up or exposed to me some horrible secret. Like I said, he's not without fault, but if he's scum he's a little scum in a world of thousand giant ones he worked for.

The government is not infallible nor always acting legally, not is every program, order, etc. If you agree this is true, we basically only disagree about his method, and not even much. If you believe there's never a justification to be a whistle blower, there's nothing to discuss.

There is an Oversight and Intelligence committee he could have gone to. Then there's also a whistle blower program. There's too his normal chain of command.

If all of the above failed there is also the ability to go to the media with out exposing our capabilities or methods.

Fuck him, I may believe that we have the right to know what they are doing to our citizens, especially if illegal. No right to inform our enemies.

I noticed this detail in the story:

http://time.com/4810099/realit...sident-donald-trump/

While she was in the Air Force, she spent 4 years assigned to the NSA at Fort Meade, MD.

Winner provided real-time translation to Americans conducting field missions.

**************

So she had extensive experience in working at one of the highest classified environments in the country

The view from my saddle is that Snowden and Winner are of the same narcissistic ilk. Both knew full well the law and consequences of compromising top secret material-when you get access you get clear eyed briefings and sign statements saying you understand the penalties. What they did not understand were the national security implications.

We do not know yet the extent of damage Winner may have done, or what else she may have carried out of that SCIF. The first point of failure with Snowden is that he had no need to ever see the material he compromised. The extent of damage done to our intelligence capabilities by Snowden is catastrophic. The intelligence community cannot talk about the extent of the damage but some of our most critical national defense secrets were compromised.

By its very nature, intelligence and counterintelligence activities are conducted surreptitiously and in the shadows. To those outside the intelligence services it seems like a dirty business and often it is. For these reasons, Intelligence Oversight law and rules are extensive. These are the same rules that preclude unmasking of identities of US persons. Past members of the Obama administration will eventually pay a price for that.

If information on US persons is being collected and retained illegally, there is a clear path for reporting violations. The IG offices of all the intelligence agencies will aggressively investigate. All intelligence oversight violation reports are reported to the Congress. Had that path been followed more safeguards may have been put in place and our apparatus would still be more or less intact. There is no indication that Snowden attempted to follow that process. As a contractor he may have been only marginally aware of how to report. I doubt that he knew what part of the elephant he was seeing-he was not old enough or experienced enough or knowledgeable enough to understand the far reaching consequences of his actions. At worst, he was an agent of Russian intelligence. At any rate, a leaky intelligence apparatus cannot function effectively.

Snowden, Manning, and Winner had one thing in common: they are narcissistic snowflakes. Narcissism is a common trait among those who have betrayed our country from Benedict Arnold on. Most traitors were not recruited by foreign intelligence services-they instead volunteered. These people are not whistle blowers, they are not patriots, they are not heroes. They are traitors, plain and simple, and deserve to be treated as such.

Bless her heart. It may take more than some braids and a smile to make her Molly Brown unsinkable.

Excellent commentary, HayesGreener.

I have no serious problem with Assange. He is (a) not an American and thus owes us no duty; (b) he is a publisher, not a thief. If we are unwilling to prosecute the New York Times or Washington Post or any other American news outlet for publishing stolen classified information, we are in no position to complain about Assange.

The thieves who steal the information, however are of another character. Up against the wall and shoot em. I have more respect for Snowden than the others because he, at least, was willing to go into exile over his actions, which indicates some personal level of moral belief in the rightness of his actions, even if those actions and that belief are misplaced. He knew he was going to pay a price and did so before he was caught. He ran, but he didn't hide. Manning and Winner are simple criminals and fools.

As for the comments about spying that Snowden exposed, and how such things are necessary for our security, I hold to the belief that freedom and security live on a sliding scale. I am willing to have less security and more freedom. My government did't give me that choice and decided to use unconstitutional means to collect and use information on American citizens, essentially because it took the position that it was "good for us". I don't want the government deciding what's "good for me". If it wants power and authority, it can ask for it; otherwise follow the rules.