You guys pissing on about off road this and that are so far out in left field no one can hear you. 99.9999999999% of Jeeps, 4Runners, 4x4 trucks, etc are grocery getting, mall crawling kid haulers. Ford, or Jeep for that matter, could give two shits about what Billy Bob does in his modded out rock crawler as long as Becky and Biff think it looks cool in the carpool line. FFS, get over it.

Have you ever tried to get a parking space without front and rear Dana 44s with Detroit Lockers? It can get pretty hairy. Especially at the Dillard's New Years Clearance Sale.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
You guys pissing on about off road this and that are so far out in left field no one can hear you. 99.9999999999% of Jeeps, 4Runners, 4x4 trucks, etc are grocery getting, mall crawling kid haulers. Ford, or Jeep for that matter, could give two shits about what Billy Bob does in his modded out rock crawler as long as Becky and Biff think it looks cool in the carpool line. FFS, get over it.

You're missing the point. Ever heard the now ancient phrase "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday". It's marketing. When people see Jeeps crawling all over Moab, or overlanding, what do they 'want'? Ever watch any of the new Dodge Charger Hellcat commercials? Does anyone really need a 750HP grocery getter or kid hauler? They may not 'need' it, but the marketing makes them 'want' it. Ask yourself what will make buyers 'want' that little blue Bronco Sport when there are a whole lot of established competitors already occupying that segment? Again, I'm not going to bash the big Bronco given we still don't really know anything for certain about it yet.

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Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
You guys pissing on about off road this and that are so far out in left field no one can hear you. 99.9999999999% of Jeeps, 4Runners, 4x4 trucks, etc are grocery getting, mall crawling kid haulers. Ford, or Jeep for that matter, could give two shits about what Billy Bob does in his modded out rock crawler as long as Becky and Biff think it looks cool in the carpool line. FFS, get over it.

You're missing the point. Ever heard the now ancient phrase "Race on Sunday, sell on Monday". It's marketing. When people see Jeeps crawling all over Moab, or overlanding, what do they 'want'? Ever watch any of the new Dodge Charger Hellcat commercials? Does anyone really need a 750HP grocery getter or kid hauler? They may not 'need' it, but the marketing makes them 'want' it. Ask yourself what will make buyers 'want' that little blue Bronco Sport when there are a whole lot of established competitors already occupying that segment? Again, I'm not going to bash the big Bronco given we still don't really know anything for certain about it yet.

The little Bronco is a shitbox, no one is arguing this point. The point is the big Bronco will sell out if it looks anything like what was posted in this thread and nobody buying it will give a shit how many axles it has. It looks cool, like the old Bronco we wish we had when we were teenagers. That's all that matters. Hundreds of thousands will sell...hundreds will ever see an unpaved road.

As for race on Sunday, sell on Monday....that shit went out with the Marlboro man. Sorry, but you could sit in Dodge dealership all day and maybe find one person who could name a current race driver. Do you really think your average suburbanites buy a jeep because of rock crawling? Really?

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Originally posted by TXJIM:
Do you really think your average suburbanites buy a jeep because of rock crawling? Really?

Yep, because of the 'image' of off roading. Its all about an image painted for them by the manufacturer. Like them or hate them, Jeep has a well defined history and image the company continues to build on. Here's a question for you? How many buyers today even remember the Bronco name or that it was once a production vehicle. Ford will need to go a long way to create an image for the Bronco that draws lots of buyers to it. Drawing only a piece of us old guys to it ain't gonna cut it. Similarly, you think Ford sells Mustangs off their fuel economy and JD Power ratings? Nope, they sell them based on the image of a sports coupe with a whole lotta attractive history behind it. Again, an image Ford has been very successful in marketing even during times when the car wasn't very good.

quote:

Originally posted by TXJIM:
99.9999999999% of Jeeps, 4Runners, 4x4 trucks, etc are grocery getting, mall crawling kid haulers.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but it does not apply equally everywhere. The Cape Hatteras National Seashore sold about 40,000 beach driving permits last year, and that was overwhelmingly to the types of vehicles you cited. The NPS and local organizations discourage AWD vehicles from even attempting it.

I realize those are dual purpose vehicles, but think the amount of off road activity in my area would surprise you.

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Originally posted by bigdeal:

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Originally posted by Black92LX:
Ohh wait, Never mind the Toyota 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Fj Cruiser, 200 series Land Cruiser, Ford Raptor, and so on do it everyday.

What on earth are you talking about????

Stop it. Why don't you todder on off to YouTube and look up a few Moab videos and tell me what vehicle you see over and over. Or take a headcount of which vehicle occupies the majority of the local off road club's garages. I'm talking about real off road capabilities, not idling around in the woods, playing in a puddle, or driving kids to soccer practice. Now if you want to argue that little blue POS will be bought by housewives and metro college grads to tool back and forth to the grocery store and Starbuck's, I highly doubt it, but that would at least be an argument. That vehicle is the definition of a lead balloon, a vehicle in search of a market, and I'll lay money it will be nothing but Ford's latest embarrassment.

The big Bronco may yet prove to be a real competitor to Jeep. That of course assumes Ford ever let's us in on what it really is.

You have missed the point completely.

Ford IS NOT and HAS NOT ever marketed this Bronco or even Broncos of the past as a huge off road beast.
They are marketing this as at mildly modified Jeeps with their biggest aspect being a removable top and removable doors with styling queues from the days of old. That will yes take you off road and more off road than the majority of people who buy them will even consider. Just like the Jeep the vast majority in of Jeeps around here never see a day off pavement.

You keep arguing IFS is not going to do what Ford is marketing it to do which is incorrect.

Yes, the Jeep is super capable, on top of that the Jeep is heavily purchased and used because they have been around forever aftermarket support is HUGE and rather inexpensive compared to other options.

But none of that discounts the capabilities of the IFS and where Ford is trying to place the big Bronco it in the market.
Not where you want it to be placed.

I have been saying for quite some time Ford is going to screw this up and still am leaning towards that as much as they hype with no show or info.
But IFS is not going to be the reason if it sucks.


As for the little Bronco, none of my comments have been directed towards it. That thing is a complete waste of time.

I like the look of the hardtop better than the soft top.

Nothing like watching people argue points they have zero reference to on what something will or won't do, be, perform, break, when the product being discussed hasn't even been released.

It does keep the innerweb discussions interesting though...

Whatever y'all do, don't mention the new Land Rover Defender: https://jalopnik.com/here-are-...-features-1841983008

Come on Ford, pull the curtain back and release details and pricing. I'm also curious about the interior and quality. I've been in a handful of Jeeps, some of them optioned out and they all feel and look cheap. I'm sure that's because they are in the grand scheme of things, just marked up several times over.

I don't need one loaded out, but what is there had better be quality. If not, I'll go for a 4Runner or GX when the time comes.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
You have missed the point completely.

Ford IS NOT and HAS NOT ever marketed this Bronco or even Broncos of the past as a huge off road beast.

Really? And this from just a few months ago.

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You keep arguing IFS is not going to do what Ford is marketing it to do which is incorrect.

Actually, no. I argued the Bronco Sport is a turd, which is the only one of the two new Broncos we 'kinda' know anything about from the released pics. We still have no idea what's underpinning the big Bronco yet.

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Not where you want it to be placed.

To be clear, I don't give a damn where/how Ford markets these two vehicles. I'm just watching their marketing videos, and I've yet to see one advertising the big Bronco's family friendly, commuting, attributes.

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But IFS is not going to be the reason if it sucks.

On that we can probably agree. However there is no point in debating the undercarriage of the big Bronco at this point as it could be IFS or it could be a straight axle. I'll simply wait to see on that one.

Just as a point of clarification the big Bronco is expected to have IFS per spy shots from a few weeks ago.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
You have missed the point completely.

Ford IS NOT and HAS NOT ever marketed this Bronco or even Broncos of the past as a huge off road beast.

Really? And this from just a few months ago.

quote:

You keep arguing IFS is not going to do what Ford is marketing it to do which is incorrect.

Actually, no. I argued the Bronco Sport is a turd, which is the only one of the two new Broncos we 'kinda' know anything about from the released pics. We still have no idea what's underpinning the big Bronco yet.

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Not where you want it to be placed.

To be clear, I don't give a damn where/how Ford markets these two vehicles. I'm just watching their marketing videos, and I've yet to see one advertising the big Bronco's family friendly, commuting, attributes.

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But IFS is not going to be the reason if it sucks.

On that we can probably agree. However there is no point in debating the undercarriage of the big Bronco at this point as it could be IFS or it could be a straight axle. I'll simply wait to see on that one.

That is clearly Ford’s Competition Performance Divisions Bronco. Thinking the Bronco is going to be anything remotely similar other than in name and body shell is like thinking the Ford Fusion Sport is going to be doing what the NASCAR Fusion does.

We agree that the Bronco Sport is a turd no matter how you slice it.

All the marketing (very little) of the big Bronco just touts taking one on an adventure like the old one could. Ford’s site clearly states the Baja truck is nothing more than a prototype.

All the “leaked” photos of the front of the big Bronco clearly show an IFS.
As does the Baja trailer you posted.

If Ford gives me a base model vehicle with no fancy frills in the silver body shown on page 4 at a reasonable price. In two years if the kinks are worked out my boys will all be in boosters with one maybe not needing one there is a possibility for me.
But I am afraid that will not be the case.

quote:

Originally posted by SigM4:
Just as a point of clarification the big Bronco is expected to have IFS per spy shots from a few weeks ago.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
All the “leaked” photos of the front of the big Bronco clearly show an IFS.

And that's where I'm apparently a bit less trusting than you guys are. Ford has jerked us around forever (even now for god sake) over this Bronco re-emergence. Until the actual vehicle is released into the public for testers to drive, I'm not believing anything in those pics short of maybe the shape.

And an even bigger question in my mind is what will reside under the hood? Will it be an Ecoboost motor (likely)? If so, which one? And will Ford option a Coyote motor in it for us old guys that cannot live without rumble?

My guess is the baby gets the 2.3L Ecoboost

Big Bronco get the 3.5L Ecoboost and the 5.0L

My biggest gripe about my Expedition with the 3.5 is there is no way to open up the exhaust without it sounding like pure garbage!
But man is that motor a pleasure to drive!

From a purely aesthetic point, if I'm in the market for a 4 door suv I'm going Jeep. It's a better looking vehicle to me. In 2 door trim I think the Bronco may be hard to beat, but I have yet to see a hardtop version. From the pic above, the 2 door in the background looks more like the jkl. Goofy long wheel base. Time will tell.
Either way, no stick and I'm walking on...

I hope you’re right Black. As much as I enjoy the EB 3.5L in my wife’s Explorer Sport I’ve been driving a 5.0L F-150 for the last year and really enjoy the sound. Yeah, I makes less torque, but dammit it sounds awesome. MPG between the two is basically a wash unless you’re doing 100% highway driving all the time.

The reality is that the Bronco has been my wife’s dream car for years and we’ll likely be getting a second or third year model despite any shortcomings (unless they’re deal killers) as one of the kids will be old enough for the front seat and the other two in boosters by then. Thus the need for a third row all the time won’t be there. I just hope the 5.0 is an option.

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
My biggest gripe about my Expedition with the 3.5 is there is no way to open up the exhaust without it sounding like pure garbage!

Hit the Raptor forum(s). The lack of a Coyote option in the Raptor is the number one gripe on those boards. Again, I think Ford is beyond stupid for not allowing the 5.0L as an option in the Raptor. When you're shelling out $70k+ for a truck, you should get to have it your way. This is also why I hold zero hope that that Ford will ever bring a Ranger Raptor to the US market.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by Black92LX:
My biggest gripe about my Expedition with the 3.5 is there is no way to open up the exhaust without it sounding like pure garbage!

Hit the Raptor forum(s). The lack of a Coyote option in the Raptor is the number one gripe on those boards. Again, I think Ford is beyond stupid for not allowing the 5.0L as an option in the Raptor. When you're shelling out $70k+ for a truck, you should get to have it your way. This is also why I hold zero hope that that Ford will ever bring a Ranger Raptor to the US market.

I agree it should be an option but sure does not stop them from selling like hot cakes.

As for the Ranger I see no need (personally) for a small truck the fuel and cost savings over a full size just is not there for me. I had a Tacoma as a company truck and it was a solid little thing but at 6’2” I did feel a bit cramped especially if someone was in the back. Glad I never had to ride back there.
Did have to sleep back there once that was not enjoyable.

But as for the Ranger Raptor I think the Rangers sales numbers need to come up quite a bit. I have not seen actual sales numbers but I think I have seen maybe 2 Rangers in the wild. Yet, full blown TRD Pros are everywhere.

When Ford introduced the F150 Raptor there was really no one competing in that area. The GM Z71 package was likely the closest but nowhere near a Raptor. The Raptor took that market and ran. We’re 10 years deep and no one has put out a real Competitor. The TRD Pro is trying and Ram keeps hitting at the TRX whatever the Raptor fighter with a Hellcat motor.

This go round Ford has to fight to get into that market and I don’t see a Ranger Raptor doing much to hurt Tacoma TRD sales.