Man who sold ammo to Las Vegas shooter charged with making armor-piercing bullets

http://www.al.com/news/birming...ml#incart_river_home

An Arizona man who sold ammunition to the gunman in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history was charged Friday with manufacturing armor-piercing bullets, according to court documents obtained by The Associated Press.

Unfired armor-piercing bullets found inside the Las Vegas hotel room where the attack was launched on Oct. 1 contained the fingerprints of ammunition dealer Douglas Haig of Arizona, according to the complaint filed in federal court in Phoenix. It says Haig didn't have a license to manufacture armor-piercing ammunition.

The records don't say if the ammunition was used in the attack. Haig was charged shortly before holding a news conference Friday where he said he didn't notice anything suspicious when he sold 720 rounds of ammunition to Stephen Paddock in the weeks before the attack that killed 58 people.

Haig, a 55-year-old aerospace engineer who sold ammunition as a hobby for about 25 years, said he met Paddock at a Phoenix gun show in the weeks before the shooting and he was well-dressed and polite.

He didn't have the quantity of tracer ammunition on hand that Paddock was seeking, so Paddock contacted him a few days later and lined up a sale at Haig's home in the Phoenix suburb of Mesa. Tracer bullets contain a pyrotechnic charge that illuminates the path of fired bullets so shooters can see whether their aim is correct.

Haig said he was shocked and sickened when a federal agent informed him of the massacre 11 hours after it unfolded.

"I had no contribution to what Paddock did," Haig said, adding that there was nothing unusual about the type or quantity of ammunition Paddock bought. "I had no way to see into his mind."

Haig's lawyer said they held the news conference in a bid to protect his reputation after he was revealed earlier this week to be a "person of interest" in the investigation. Haig's identity emerged by mistake after his name was not redacted in court documents.

Haig arose in the investigation when a box with his name and address was found in the Mandalay Bay hotel suite where Paddock launched the attack on a music festival below.

He gave the box to Paddock to carry the 720 rounds of tracer ammunition from the sale.

Haig said Paddock told him that "he was going to go out to the desert to put on a light show, either with or for his friends. I can't remember whether he used the word 'with' or 'for.' But he said that he was going out at night to shoot it with friends."

He said he has received unwanted media attention and death threats since his name was released. Still, Haig, who has closed his ammunition business, said he doesn't expect to take any legal action as a result of his name being publicly revealed.

The Las Vegas Police Department and U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives declined to comment when contacted earlier Friday.

The FBI and U.S. attorney's office in Nevada didn't immediately respond to emails seeking comment.

I am still unclear as to the legal issues. Did he break the law when he SOLD the ammunition and when he MANUFACTURED it as well? From what I read he had been making ammo since 1991. The guy is an aerospace engineer and presents himself well. I am confused.

They need a scapegoat- a live body to charge.

quote:

They need a scapegoat- a live body to charge.

Yep. That makes sense. Sometimes I use logic too much.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
I am still unclear as to the legal issues. Did he break the law when he SOLD the ammunition and when he MANUFACTURED it as well? From what I read he had been making ammo since 1991. The guy is an aerospace engineer and presents himself well. I am confused.

Here is the complaint put before a federal judge to get the arrest warrant.

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Thanks. It would be beneficial if the news articles would attach a copy of the complaint. Our local TV station does this routinely on their web page.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
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Thanks. It would be beneficial if the news articles would attach a copy of the complaint. Our local TV station does this routinely on their web page.

Apparently it was on PACER and NoloContendere, a lawyer on AR15.com who has participated in several 2nd Amendment related lawsuits, uploaded it to scribd.

relevant section below:

A WSJ article

There is a video from a body cam of a police officer. The officer was on the 31st floor searching the hall.

The group is informed the shooter is on the 32nd floor. You can hear bursts of gunfire.

As they progress down the end of the hall, it looks like they are exactly one floor under the room of the shooter. At the end of the hall, the door looks like the one we have seen shot up on the 32nd floor.

The video ends just as they start to go up the stairwell.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/p...cx_artPos=6#cxrecs_s


The body cam is from a female officer who was on her second day of field training


adding: after listening closely to the video, these comments:

At 56 sec, the lead officer says to the security guy (in black) “enjoy your rack guy” (I think)

The security guy says “Yeah, thanks” And you hear a pistol slide being racked

Are they carrying w no round in the chamber ?

The two security guards in black are more aggressive about moving forward. They get all the way to the stairwell, and the lead officer tells them to stop. The lead officer pulls the group back down the hall on the 31st floor away from the stairwell.

They hold a position for about 3 minutes while there are still bursts of rifle fire. Then they go forward again and enter the stairwell.

This group is the first police presence in the stairwell at the 32 nd floor.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: sdy,

So what exactly are they calling "Armor Piercing"?



This whole thing stinks of scapegotieism.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
So what exactly are they calling "Armor Piercing"?

This whole thing stinks of scapegotieism.

We had a good thread about AP (link below) where you can scroll down to RogueJSK's text to see what it legally means to be AP from a fed standpoint: https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/4110042934

The article doesn't say what it was they are charging the Arizona guy with making/selling. Maybe we will find out more later.

another version of the officer cam from Fox

(starts a little earlier, ends a little sooner)

Keep in mind from the report, this is the first team of armed law enforcement / hotel security that was close to the shooter

http://video.foxnews.com/v/580...8001/?#sp=show-clips

Just saw this story today...

Shooting victims outraged over MGM's lawsuit against them


NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. (AP) — Victims of a fatal mass shooting at a Las Vegas country music festival said Monday they were outraged when they learned they were being sued by the company that owns the hotel where the gunman opened fire.

Jason McMillan, a 36-year-old Riverside County sheriff’s deputy who was shot and paralyzed, said he can’t believe MGM officials would try to foist blame onto anyone but themselves.

“I just can’t believe the audacity,” McMillan said at a press conference in Southern California where survivors, victims’ relatives and attorneys railed against the decision to file lawsuits against hundreds of victims.

“I’m not just a victim from the concert. I’m a survivor, and they’re not going to get away with anything. We’ll keep this going as long as it takes,” McMillan said.

MGM Resorts International sued victims in at least seven states last week in a bid to get federal courts to declare the company has no liability for the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

In October, high-stakes gambler Stephen Paddock killed 58 people and injured hundreds at the festival by firing onto the crowd from his room at the Mandalay Bay casino-resort in Las Vegas. Paddock then killed himself.

MGM’s lawsuits — which target victims who have threatened to sue or who have sued the company and voluntarily dismissed their claims — argue that that the shooting qualifies as an act of terrorism and that federally certified security services were used at the concert venue, which is also owned by MGM.

After 9/11, the U.S. enacted a law giving companies a way to limit their liability if their federally certified products or services failed to prevent a terror attack.

The company’s decision to file the lawsuits stoked a public outcry. On Monday, MGM Resorts spokeswoman Debra DeShong said the company has faced dozens of lawsuits in multiple jurisdictions and resolving each case on its own would take years.

“We believe Congress determined these cases should be in federal court and that getting everyone in the same court is the best and fastest way to resolve these cases,” she said.

McMillan said he felt helpless at the concert when he fell to the ground and couldn’t feel his legs. His girlfriend helped drag his body over a fence and others helped load him onto the back of a pickup truck where he lay staring at the night sky, struggling to breathe, while the driver plowed over curbs and through bushes to rush him and other victims to the hospital.

When he woke, doctors told him he had a bullet in his spine. He was afraid his 4- and 7-year-old daughters would look at him differently in a wheelchair. He was afraid of what they might miss out on, he said, because of him.

It was insulting to learn he was being sued by MGM at the same time he was struggling to rebuild his life, McMillan said. And it brought him right back to feeling helpless again.

“It enrages me to think that this company can just try to skip out on their responsibilities and their liability for what happened,” he said.

Associated Press writer Regina Garcia Cano in Las Vegas contributed to this report.

quote:

Originally posted by callibird:
It was insulting to learn he was being sued by MGM at the same time he was struggling to rebuild his life, McMillan said. And it brought him right back to feeling helpless again.

“It enrages me to think that this company can just try to skip out on their responsibilities and their liability for what happened,” he said.

Here's the thing, and pardon me if I am missing something here about MGM's "liability". What exactly was MGM's liability here?

They didn't shoot and kill anyone. They didn't condone or console the shooter into shooting. They didn't ignore information that there would be a shooting. There were not a large amount of warning signs that they ignored that this guys was going to pop a gasket and start blazing.

So, why exactly are they being sued in the first place? ANSWER? Because suing the deceased is not a money maker. So, we have to find someone to sue, and that someone is MGM. Ok, fine this is the US in 2018.

My question is this. The victims (more likely the victims attorneys) made a calculated move to make some one shell out some cash. Then MGM out maneuvered them by counter suing. Now people are upset over it?

If I'm missing something and MGM knew this was going to happen, or had an active part in aiding the shooter, sue them until they catch fire or change shape. But, if not, I have no pity for your attorneys because they are being out maneuvered on the quick payout that they were expecting.

Summary I heard was this was filed in Federal court, in order to keep it out of state court. Not good for PR, but preemptive move for the purpose of a friendlier setting.

I agree with jljones. MGM is not responsible - hell - they're not responsible if someone steals shit from your room.

quote:

Originally posted by callibird:

“It enrages me to think that this company can just try to skip out on their responsibilities and their liability for what happened,” he said.

.

And it enrages me when people try to take advantage of a company simply because it has huge pockets.

watch the videos I posted above.

The most aggressive people trying to get to Pollack's room were Mandalay Bay security people.

Yeah, it sucks that people's lives were ruined by this madman, but that doesn't make it OK to drag the deepest pocket you can find into a lawsuit just so you can get paid for your misery. Fuck the lawyers.

720 rounds of tracer sounded familiar, so I Googled it. I have no idea what caliber of ammo they are talking about but 5.56 tracer is still being sold in 720 round cans.

https://www.cheaperthandirt.co...3200-fps-amm-2920.do

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SgtGold,