SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Route 91 fest Vegas shooting?
Page 1 ... 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 ... 87

Closed Topic Closed
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Route 91 fest Vegas shooting? Login/Join 
Member
posted October 06, 2017 12:10 PMHide Post
The conspiracy theory I'm going with.... (kidding of course) he planned to use the tannerite, place it under he fuel tanks, shoot the fuel tanks from 800 yards away, pierce the tank with his shots. Then when he had a puddle of fuel, he was planning on shooting the tannerite to ignite the fuel. Yeah, that's it....think I can get on a news show as an expert now?
 
Posts: 2181 | Location: St. Louis | Registered: January 28, 2006Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted October 06, 2017 12:16 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Do you think it's more likely that the rounds that struck the fuel tanks were simply stray rounds, or do you think he was actually targeting them?


Based on what I can determine from Google Earth, the fuel tanks were 675+ yards from the murderer’s location and the line of sight to them is over 20 degrees of angular difference from the center of the audience area of the performance. There are also what appear to be apartment buildings closer in angular distance to the tanks than the tanks are to the performance area, and if they’d been hit by bullets I suspect we’d have heard about that by now. Even allowing for the highly inaccurate fire when using a bump fire stock, it seems unlikely to me that the tanks were hit inadvertently.

The only other thing I’d speculate about is whether the tanks were actually hit by gunfire. The one very brief mention I read referred to “holes” in the tanks but that they were (evidently) quickly repaired. If they were true penetrating holes, I must wonder what sort of repair was conducted: plugs inserted through the metal? If, however, they were just dents or what appeared to be dents, then I’d be a lot less confident that they were caused by the shooter. Most people have utterly no idea what real bullet holes look like. A store I worked at long ago was targeted by an attempted break-in, and we discovered a hole that had been drilled into a plastic domed skylight cover. One of the police officers who initially responded said that the hole was caused by a falling bullet and no one had tried to break into the store(!) (Yes, really.)




6.4/93.6

“I regret that I am to now die in the belief, that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiness to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it.”
— Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 47962 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
posted October 06, 2017 12:19 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.


Possibly to shoot at the fuel tanks he reportedly targeted. And why only “tried”? It shouldn’t be that hard to acquire.
Do you have a source for that tidbit of information?


Fox news reported that he tried to buy tracer at a gun show in phoenix but the vendor was out.
 
Posts: 7748 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Report This Post
Member
posted October 06, 2017 12:19 PMHide Post
I'm going with not-intentional or at least not planned.

This guy has been portrayed as Mr. Meticulous.

If that were the case - he would have thought-out / executed the 'attempt' to detonate the fuel tanks in a much more effective manner. You would want something with a lot more down-range punch than a .223 / 5.56.

---------------------------------------------------------


Proverbs 27:17 - As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.
 
Posts: 8940 | Location: Florida | Registered: September 20, 2004Report This Post
Stop Talking, Start Doing
posted October 06, 2017 12:28 PMHide Post
My understanding from what I’ve read is he hit the fuel tanks with two rounds and I’m sure it was deliberate as they’re a far different trajectory from the concert venue. Also, the second window he broke out points almost directly at them.

As reported in the article, one of the bullets penetrated the tank but didn’t do anything, obviously.

Link to article with photos



_______________
Mind. Over. Matter.
 
Posts: 5091 | Location: The (R)ight side of Washington State | Registered: August 31, 2011Report This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted October 06, 2017 12:32 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
Shoothing up to a high floor, at a distance of 400 yards on the ground, which is more like 550 yards or so as the hypotenuse of the triangle...

Just a bit of tid...It doesn't work like that - the bullet's travel like it is LESS than 400 yds at extreme angles.

Sorry for the drift. Now back to your regularly scheduled programming....

ETA : I realized (for some reason while flipping my eggs for breakfast) that I had switched Kev's line of sight distance and the horizontal distance.
Gravity acts on the bullet using the "bottom of the triangle" not the line of sight leg.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: KMitch200, October 06, 2017 01:37 PM


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3917 | Location: Central AZ | Registered: October 26, 2006Report This Post
Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
Picture of ChuckFinley
posted October 06, 2017 12:33 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Copefree:
My understanding from what I’ve read is he hit the fuel tanks with two rounds and I’m sure it was deliberate as they’re a far different trajectory from the concert venue. Also, the second window he broke out points almost directly at them.

Link to article with photos



^This.
If one reads this thread one will encounter a detailed illustration which shows one window was broken for visibility of the event and one was for the tanks.

Chellim's post not difficult to find




_________________________
NRA Endowment Member
_________________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis
 
Posts: 5701 | Location: District 12 | Registered: June 16, 2012Report This Post
stupid beyond
all belief
Picture of Deqlyn
posted October 06, 2017 12:33 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
The conspiracy theory I'm going with.... (kidding of course) he planned to use the tannerite, place it under he fuel tanks, shoot the fuel tanks from 800 yards away, pierce the tank with his shots. Then when he had a puddle of fuel, he was planning on shooting the tannerite to ignite the fuel. Yeah, that's it....think I can get on a news show as an expert now?


If thats the case then why didnt he put any tannerite there to begin with. His car was in the mandalay bay parking garage with all the tannerite and amonium nitrate?

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.



What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin

Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke
 
Posts: 8250 | Registered: September 13, 2012Report This Post
Member
posted October 06, 2017 12:47 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Deqlyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
The conspiracy theory I'm going with.... (kidding of course) he planned to use the tannerite, place it under he fuel tanks, shoot the fuel tanks from 800 yards away, pierce the tank with his shots. Then when he had a puddle of fuel, he was planning on shooting the tannerite to ignite the fuel. Yeah, that's it....think I can get on a news show as an expert now?


If thats the case then why didnt he put any tannerite there to begin with. His car was in the mandalay bay parking garage with all the tannerite and amonium nitrate?

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.


Did you not see the part where I said I was kidding???? First sentence man....figured it would be obvious with how ridiculous the assumptions in the post were...
 
Posts: 2181 | Location: St. Louis | Registered: January 28, 2006Report This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted October 06, 2017 12:50 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
Shoothing up to a high floor, at a distance of 400 yards on the ground, which is more like 550 yards or so as the hypotenuse of the triangle...

Just a bit of tid...It doesn't work like that - the bullet's travel like it is LESS than 400 yds at extreme angles.



Um …, no: Based on what I could determine from photographs, the room the shots were fired from was about 100 yards (300 feet) above the ground.* If the horizontal distance from the room to the target area was 400 yards, then the slant line distance (hypotenuse of the triangle) would have been ~412 yards, not less than 400 yards. (Despite my own first estimates, the up/down angle between the ground at various locations and the room was only 14-16 degrees, and would have had little effect on points of bullet impact.)

If the situation consists of a shot fired downward at an angle from a high point, the line of sight distance (hypotenuse of the triangle) will always be greater than the horizontal distance from the shooter to the target. In a right triangle, the hypotenuse is always the longest leg (side).

If you didn’t just get yourself confused, the possible reason for your misconception is the oft-repeated statement that shooting up or down at extreme angles will cause the bullet to hit higher than expected. That’s true only if one estimates the distance of the shot by the line of sight rather than the horizontal distance.

* If anyone has been able to determine a more accurate value for the height of the room above the ground, I’d be very interested in learning it.




6.4/93.6

“I regret that I am to now die in the belief, that the useless sacrifice of themselves by the generation of 1776, to acquire self-government and happiness to their country, is to be thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons, and that my only consolation is to be, that I live not to weep over it.”
— Thomas Jefferson
 
Posts: 47962 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Report This Post
In search of baseball, strippers, and guns
posted October 06, 2017 12:51 PMHide Post
My guess. Just a guess. Is he is kidding too. Based on the final quote from the Adam Sandler movie

quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
quote:
Originally posted by Deqlyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
The conspiracy theory I'm going with.... (kidding of course) he planned to use the tannerite, place it under he fuel tanks, shoot the fuel tanks from 800 yards away, pierce the tank with his shots. Then when he had a puddle of fuel, he was planning on shooting the tannerite to ignite the fuel. Yeah, that's it....think I can get on a news show as an expert now?


If thats the case then why didnt he put any tannerite there to begin with. His car was in the mandalay bay parking garage with all the tannerite and amonium nitrate?

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.


Did you not see the part where I said I was kidding???? First sentence man....figured it would be obvious with how ridiculous the assumptions in the post were...


——————————————————

If the meek will inherit the earth, what will happen to us tigers?
 
Posts: 7796 | Location: Warrenton, VA | Registered: July 09, 2005Report This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted October 06, 2017 12:55 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Copefree:
My understanding from what I’ve read is he hit the fuel tanks with two rounds and I’m sure it was deliberate as they’re a far different trajectory from the concert venue. Also, the second window he broke out points almost directly at them.

As reported in the article, one of the bullets penetrated the tank but didn’t do anything, obviously.



I agree after looking at all of that and the pic above that it was most likely targeted deliberately.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

 
Posts: 31171 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Report This Post
Member
Picture of steve495
posted October 06, 2017 01:11 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DJ_Boston:
quote:
Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.


I think the media is still fixated on the fuel tank thingy, and want to show it as an attempt to use it as an incendiary round. had he used tracers, maybe they might have found him quicker. they do work both ways....


About this "might have found him quicker" stuff. If we were standing 400 yards away from the hotel, and I told you or anyone else the exact room number of the shooter and started a clock ... I wonder if anyone could get to that room in less than 12 minutes.

Even if you were on the first floor of the hotel ... 12 minutes. I'm no expert at all, but I think that is a good response time, unless first responders were standing at the lobby elevator stack and knew the floor and room number.


Steve


Small Business Website Design & Maintenance - https://spidercreations.net | OpSpec Training - https://opspectraining.com | Grayguns - https://grayguns.com

Evil exists. You can not negotiate with, bribe or placate evil. You're not going to be able to have it sit down with Dr. Phil for an anger management session either.
 
Posts: 5037 | Location: Windsor Locks, Conn. | Registered: July 18, 2006Report This Post
The Main Thing Is
Not To Get Excited
Picture of wishfull thinker
posted October 06, 2017 01:36 PMHide Post
Very sad news.

My spouse just came in with the local weekly...front page, a girl my daughter went to high school with was one of the fallen in Las Vegas.

We weren't close, as high school was a while back, but even having known her slightly brings it closer and sadder


_______________________

 
Posts: 6586 | Location: Washington | Registered: November 06, 2006Report This Post
stupid beyond
all belief
Picture of Deqlyn
posted October 06, 2017 01:39 PMHide Post
Ding ding ding!



quote:
Originally posted by Kevbo:
My guess. Just a guess. Is he is kidding too. Based on the final quote from the Adam Sandler movie

quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
quote:
Originally posted by Deqlyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Erick85:
The conspiracy theory I'm going with.... (kidding of course) he planned to use the tannerite, place it under he fuel tanks, shoot the fuel tanks from 800 yards away, pierce the tank with his shots. Then when he had a puddle of fuel, he was planning on shooting the tannerite to ignite the fuel. Yeah, that's it....think I can get on a news show as an expert now?


If thats the case then why didnt he put any tannerite there to begin with. His car was in the mandalay bay parking garage with all the tannerite and amonium nitrate?

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.


Did you not see the part where I said I was kidding???? First sentence man....figured it would be obvious with how ridiculous the assumptions in the post were...



What man is a man that does not make the world better. -Balian of Ibelin

Only boring people get bored. - Ruth Burke
 
Posts: 8250 | Registered: September 13, 2012Report This Post
I have not yet begun
to procrastinate
posted October 06, 2017 01:42 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KMitch200:
Um …, no
<snip>
If you didn’t just get yourself confused, the possible reason for your misconception is the oft-repeated statement that shooting up or down at extreme angles will cause the bullet to hit higher than expected. That’s true only if one estimates the distance of the shot by the line of sight rather than the horizontal distance.

Yeah I realized my mistake in my post and have added to it. You beat me to the correction. Wink


--------
After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box.
 
Posts: 3917 | Location: Central AZ | Registered: October 26, 2006Report This Post
Member
posted October 06, 2017 01:55 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Deqlyn:
Ding ding ding!



Damn, I need to brush up on my Adam Sandler movies.
 
Posts: 2181 | Location: St. Louis | Registered: January 28, 2006Report This Post
Never miss an opportunity
to be Batman!
Picture of jsbcody
posted October 06, 2017 02:02 PMHide Post
Just to help explain shooting at angles and long range shooting technique:

Easy to Understand:


Not SO Easy (at least for me Razz) but shows Equipment Doing it:


Simple trick to control recoil:
 
Posts: 4102 | Location: St.Louis County MO | Registered: October 13, 2006Report This Post
hello darkness
my old friend
Picture of gw3971
posted October 06, 2017 02:04 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
quote:
Originally posted by KMitch200:
quote:
Originally posted by KevinCW:
Shoothing up to a high floor, at a distance of 400 yards on the ground, which is more like 550 yards or so as the hypotenuse of the triangle...

Just a bit of tid...It doesn't work like that - the bullet's travel like it is LESS than 400 yds at extreme angles.



Um …, no: Based on what I could determine from photographs, the room the shots were fired from was about 100 yards (300 feet) above the ground.* If the horizontal distance from the room to the target area was 400 yards, then the slant line distance (hypotenuse of the triangle) would have been ~412 yards, not less than 400 yards. (Despite my own first estimates, the up/down angle between the ground at various locations and the room was only 14-16 degrees, and would have had little effect on points of bullet impact.)

If the situation consists of a shot fired downward at an angle from a high point, the line of sight distance (hypotenuse of the triangle) will always be greater than the horizontal distance from the shooter to the target. In a right triangle, the hypotenuse is always the longest leg (side).

If you didn’t just get yourself confused, the possible reason for your misconception is the oft-repeated statement that shooting up or down at extreme angles will cause the bullet to hit higher than expected. That’s true only if one estimates the distance of the shot by the line of sight rather than the horizontal distance.

* If anyone has been able to determine a more accurate value for the height of the room above the ground, I’d be very interested in learning it.


Ughh. this post takes me back to my Mr Rogers sweater wearing high school geometry teacher telling me that one day geometry would matter.
 
Posts: 7748 | Location: West Jordan, Utah | Registered: June 19, 2007Report This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted October 06, 2017 02:20 PMHide Post
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyl...ere-gunman-s-n808431

IRS records show that Paddock was a successful gambler, earning at least $5 million in 2015. Some of that could be from other investments, but most of it was from gambling, officials say.

**********

I think the only gambling that has been publicly associated w Paddock is video poker.
 
Posts: 19759 | Registered: July 21, 2002Report This Post
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 ... 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 ... 87 

Closed Topic Closed

SIGforum.com    Main Page  Hop To Forum Categories  The Lounge    Route 91 fest Vegas shooting?

© SIGforum 2024