Frang isn't that good ballistically, and certainly if it encounters any type of barrier in a pocket or whatnot it is going to come apart. Glaser safety slugs are no longer in existence because, frankly, they were a great concept, but a poor execution. The Glaser often came apart upon first contact with terminal ballistics. The shell then went who knows where, and was too much a risk to bystanders/hostages. Frang also has very poor ballistic coefficient for what that is worth.

I do have three types of rifle ammo in my car. Bonded, Hornady TAP, and ball. The TAP I keep around for the rare occasion that we have to go into a correctional facility.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

The unfortunate fact of life is that few, if any, law enforcement SWAT teams have clairvoyant members available for consultation to advise them that they would need to take along such specialized ammunition to engage someone barricaded in a hotel room.

I'm neither clairvoyant or SWAT but 40mm HEDP will sort the problem of engaging someone barricaded in a hotel room rickyticquick.

It is hard on the hotel room, harder still on any innocent people trapped there, and likely a suboptimized solution for the barricaded individual, but it will do the trick.

As for frangible ammunition, I tested three types in 9x19mm, .40 S&W, and 5.56x45mm. I used standard interior wall construction (2"x4" on 16" centers, 1/2" drywall both sides, with R-19 fiberglass bat insulation).

At distances of 10' to 40' all of the rounds tested punched through both sides making virtually the same size entry and exit holes.

To say I was surprised is to be guilty of understatement. The manufacturers' were making the claim it would not penetrate walls, bu my tested showed otherwise.

So I went back to basic premium self-defense jacketed hollowpoint ammunition for my handguns, M193 for the AR-15, and 12 ga., 1oz Federal tactical slugs for the shotgun.

I also tried a Glaser in 9x19mm on a slightly frozen pumpkin. Performance was not quite what I expected. One round went clean through, one round cratered on the front side, and the third functioned as advertised.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig2340:
40mm HEDP will sort the problem of engaging someone barricaded in a hotel room rickyticquick.

If we’re no longer concerned about collateral damage or casualties, many other options become available.

Who knows? The next time the leftists come to power, perhaps they’ll adopt the Russian models of hostage rescue or active killer resolution. During the Moscow theater event they introduced toxic gas into the building, and they had tanks fire into the school during the Beslan incident.

Tomi Lahren isn't too happy with the elitist, gun control advocates.

http://insider.foxnews.com/201...r-las-vegas-shooting

While all of you guys are standing in the lobby arguing about what type of ordinance should and shouldn't be used, I'll be up knocking on the guys door and letting him take care of the dirty work himself.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20171005-story.html

Highland Park deli co-owner to leave family business after Vegas shooting tweet sparks outrage

Greg Morelli tweet:

"Soon as I heard it was country music, I felt relief. White people shooting white people isn't terror ... it's community outreach."


Max's Deli in Highland Park has ousted co-owner Greg Morelli over a controversial tweet that was posted Monday after the mass shootings in Las Vegas.

Deli co-owner Joey Morelli released a statement Thursday saying his brother is no longer affiliated with Max’s Deli, which the two own with a cousin. They are the third generation of owners in the family-run business. He later said he plans to buy out his brother’s interest in the business as soon as possible.

"He is out, he has agreed to be out and he is gone," Joey Morelli said. "I love him, but he must move on with his life and address his issues."

The business has shut down its Facebook page.

"It has created a toxicity around us," Joey Morelli said. "There are lots of people with lots of mean things to say."

with good reason Joey

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
"There are lots of people with lots of mean things to say."

Including a member of your family, Sunshine.

And the apology from this slug? Meaningless. Empty words. It's insulting that he thinks we're buying it.

And then there's this piece of shit

https://www.change.org/p/pamel...l-misconduct-against

quote:

Originally posted by a1abdj:
While all of you guys are standing in the lobby arguing about what type of ordinance should and shouldn't be used, I'll be up knocking on the guys door and letting him take care of the dirty work himself.

Ring and run! Knock... and step aside!
Seriously, thank God that the fire alarm went off and the security guard was quick to respond.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
Tomi Lahren isn't too happy with the elitist, gun control advocates.

http://insider.foxnews.com/201...r-las-vegas-shooting

And if there were no firearms he would have driven his fertilizer laden vehicle through the fence into the venue and detonated it. Let's ban transportation and food.

quote:

He stressed, however, that he sent the tweet as a private citizen.

"A bunch of people who hate free speech published my phone number online and tried to destroy me and the business," said Greg

And it is our free speech to criticize and ridicule you Greg. See how that works?

If you should know ANYTHING about today's world its that saying something to a small group of people may get a comment or a dirty look. Posting it on social medial will ALWAYS bring wrath from someone who disagrees. The more inflammatory the comment, the worse the wrath.

Keep your fingers quiet and opinions off social media and all is well.

The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

Possibly to shoot at the fuel tanks he reportedly targeted. And why only “tried”? It shouldn’t be that hard to acquire.
Do you have a source for that tidbit of information?

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo!

Because that's what a guy who was, according to the brilliant sheriff, "planning to escape", would use. He'd use ammunition that would clearly identify his position.

The shooter knew as soon as he broke out those windows that it would be his last day on Earth. He wasn't going anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

I think the media is still fixated on the fuel tank thingy, and want to show it as an attempt to use it as an incendiary round. had he used tracers, maybe they might have found him quicker. they do work both ways....

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

Possibly to shoot at the fuel tanks he reportedly targeted. And why only “tried”? It shouldn’t be that hard to acquire.
Do you have a source for that tidbit of information?

There's a Bass Pro a mile down the road and a Sportsman Warehouse in nearby Henderson, he could've picked up such ammo, not to mention the many private shops in-between.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Boston:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

I think the media is still fixated on the fuel tank thingy, and want to show it as an attempt to use it as an incendiary round. had he used tracers, maybe they might have found him quicker. they do work both ways....

If he wanted to puncture those tanks, he'd of bought/brought a .50 cal or .338 Lapau. 5.56 at 1000+ yards merely dented the tanks I understand. Wait - does that imply he might not of been such a criminal mastermind? who was operating this meat puppet? maybe he was just a loon...

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

quote:

Originally posted by gw3971:
The suspect tried to buy tracer ammo! Apparently tracer ammo is more lethal and more accurate now.

Possibly to shoot at the fuel tanks he reportedly targeted. And why only “tried”? It shouldn’t be that hard to acquire.
Do you have a source for that tidbit of information?

Do you think it's more likely that the rounds that struck the fuel tanks were simply stray rounds, or do you think he was actually targeting them?

I suppose that's just more speculation either way.

A nagant and a box of API would have been all he needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
I suppose that's just more speculation either way.

As a matter of fact it is, just as is second-guessing the police and discussing what rounds they might have fired into the room to stop this guy.