quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
In pertinent part......


(6) "Knowingly" or "willfully". All offenses defined in this code in which the mental culpability requirement is expressed as "knowingly" or "willfully" are declared to be general intent crimes. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully" with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully", with respect to a result of his conduct, when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause the result.

(8) "Recklessly". A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists.

Link

Yep, exactly so.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
In pertinent part......


(6) "Knowingly" or "willfully". All offenses defined in this code in which the mental culpability requirement is expressed as "knowingly" or "willfully" are declared to be general intent crimes. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully" with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully", with respect to a result of his conduct, when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause the result.

(8) "Recklessly". A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists.

Link

Yep, exactly so.

Your view is that this FBI agent was in no way reckless in this incident?

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
In pertinent part......


(6) "Knowingly" or "willfully". All offenses defined in this code in which the mental culpability requirement is expressed as "knowingly" or "willfully" are declared to be general intent crimes. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully" with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully", with respect to a result of his conduct, when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause the result.

(8) "Recklessly". A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists.

Link

Yep, exactly so.

Your view is that this FBI agent was in no way reckless in this incident?

Not according to the definitions and statue. The facts (video) do not present themselves that he did anything that fit the bill to satisfy the statue. To what we know right now as fact, he dropped the gun by being stupid, picked the gun up off of the floor (again being stupid) and the gun discharged. Stupidity is not a crime though I wish it was.

“He is aware” is likely the biggest hurdle to prove it. Unless they can prove that he knew the gun wouldn’t stay in the holster, his defense being he is the F...B....I and they run and jump constantly and whatnot, the statue won’t fit. Wantonly is probably a closer mental state, but the statue says recklessly which hamstrings LE and prosecution from building a case.

I'm curious. Are off duty FBI agents 'allowed' to be armed, or are they REQUIRED to be armed?

I scanned the 8 pages and have reached this conclusion:
1- The Feeb involved is an idiot.
2- And a bad dancer.
3- He was probably shitfaced. See the dancing.
4- He should be criminally charged.
5- Wounded party should sue the Feeb. FBI, too.
6- Fire his ass promptly.
And if possible, ban him from all LEO type employment. So other LE agencies wont hire him, because, you know, he was an FBI agent.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by JALLEN:
In pertinent part......


(6) "Knowingly" or "willfully". All offenses defined in this code in which the mental culpability requirement is expressed as "knowingly" or "willfully" are declared to be general intent crimes. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully" with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully", with respect to a result of his conduct, when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause the result.

(8) "Recklessly". A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists.

Link

Yep, exactly so.

Your view is that this FBI agent was in no way reckless in this incident?

Not according to the definitions and statue. The facts (video) do not present themselves that he did anything that fit the bill to satisfy the statue. To what we know right now as fact, he dropped the gun by being stupid, picked the gun up off of the floor (again being stupid) and the gun discharged. Stupidity is not a crime though I wish it was.

Stupid is not an element, but is almost always res ipsa loquitur.

Picking up a gun on the floor is not reckless, per se, but doing it in a reckless manner, to cause it to discharge might be. It doesn’t just go off by itself, does it?

Review all his training. It’s not as though he is some illegal alien sitting on a bench on the pier, picks up a rag with a gun in it, and the gun goes off unexpectedly.

I really don’t know whether one could overcome reasonable doubt or not. It’s good to think through the possibilities.

Questions remain after FBI agent’s gun goes off in Denver nightclub

http://kdvr.com/2018/06/04/que...in-denver-nightclub/

DENVER -- The Denver District Attorney's Office is expected to decide as early as Monday if charges will be filed after an off-duty FBI agent's gun was dropped and was fired at a downtown nightclub.

The Denver Police Department called it an accident and the unidentified agent has not been arrested, though many people are wondering why.

The shooting happened about 12:45 a.m. Saturday at Mile High Spirits Distillery at 2201 Lawrence St. near downtown Denver.

A woman recorded the shooting with her cellphone. It shows the agent dancing for the crowd and after he does a backflip, the weapon falls out of the back of his waistband.

The gun fired as he went to pick it up, hitting a man in the crowd.

Instead of being arrested, he was turned over to his FBI supervisor, a move some experts believe is a clear case of special treatment.

"There is no question in my mind if anyone else other than law enforcement engaged in that behavior with this result, they would be charged with prohibitive use of weapons, illegal discharge of weapon," attorney Christopher Decker said.

“A law enforcement officer should not be able to commit crimes simply because they are law enforcement. It will be interesting in the end to see if the district attorney can wrap their mind around anything, but reckless conduct occurred in that situation."

The victim was shot in the leg and is going to be OK. The Denver homicide unit is investigating and the district attorney's office will decide on charges.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:

The gun fired as he went to pick it up, hitting a man in the crowd.

Ugh, these people are incorrigible.

The agent clearly pulled the trigger when he picked up his forearm.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:

The gun fired as he went to pick it up, hitting a man in the crowd.

Ugh, these people are incorrigible.

The agent clearly pulled the trigger when he picked up his forearm.

"The Fugitive"

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
He should face the same charges as the average citizen would. Doubt it will happen though.

So, if you don’t mind, what exactly are the “same charges” that the average citizen would face? Specific statues, please.

What are the specific charges, as they apply to this situation that the “average citizen” would be charged with? And the legal justification of why by statue.

http://members.idpa.com/Conten...les/k0vchmkq.nkx.pdf

Page three, right there:

Automatic DQ!


2.3 Dropping A Firearm
2.3.1 Dropping a loaded or unloaded firearm or causing it to fall, during Load And Make Ready, the shooting of a
string or stage, reloads or malfunction clearance or during Unload and Show Clear will result in disqualification
from the match. If a shooter drops a firearm, the SO will immediately give the command “Stop”. The SO will pick
up/recover the dropped firearm and render it safe and unloaded before returning it to the shooter. The shooter
will be disqualified from the IDPA match.
2.3.2 If a shooter drops a loaded or unloaded firearm or causes it to fall within a stage boundary, the shooter is
disqualified from the match.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:

To what we know right now as fact, he dropped the gun by being stupid, picked the gun up off of the floor (again being stupid) and the gun discharged. Stupidity is not a crime though I wish it was.

The gun DID NOT 'discharge.' He PULLED THE FRIGGIN TRIGGER.

Reckless Endangerment IS a crime.

In Colorado, it is a misdemeanor:

https://www.shouselaw.com/colo...ss_endangerment.html

quote:

A person commits reckless endangerment in Colorado by recklessly engaging in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious bodily injury to another person. Reckless endangerment is a Colorado class 3 misdemeanor. It can be punished by a fine of up to $750 and up to 6 months in jail.

“Serious bodily injury” means bodily injury which, either at the time of the actual injury or at a later time, involves a substantial risk of death, a substantial risk of serious permanent disfigurement, a substantial risk of protracted loss or impairment of the function of any part or organ of the body, or breaks, fractures, or burns of the second or third degree.1

Firing a pistol into a crowd definitely meets the above criteria.

quote:

The gun DID NOT 'discharge.' He PULLED THE FRIGGIN TRIGGER.

There IS a difference, and it is not a small one.

OK, this has been done to death