SIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Off-duty FBI agent allegedly shot a man accidentally after gun falls on dance floor in Denver bar
Main Page The Lounge Off-duty FBI agent allegedly shot a man accidentally after gun falls on dance floor in Denver bar Topic ClosedGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools |
Member |
^^^ Vodeka | |||
|
Rule #1: Use enough gun |
^^^TRUTH^^^ They have proven beyond any doubt that they cannot be trusted in anything they say or do as an organization. They don't get a do-over in that regard. And for all those harping about the "rank and file this" and "rank and file that", where have they been? We have watched this travesty unfold before our very eyes for the last two years and have yet to hear from a single solitary FBI agent about the rampant corruption in the organization. If it is as bad as it clearly seems to be, you would think someone would have the conscience and the balls to come forward. That's what whistleblower laws are there for. No, I think the FBI brethren will cover for each other no matter what. I hope they all sink together. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21 "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush | |||
|
| Member |
Sounds like they did a blood test. https://www.thedenverchannel.c...nding-on-lab-results Denver police: FBI agent whose gun discharged at bar could face charges depending on lab results Police seeking to talk with outstanding witnesses Blair Miller 10:49 AM, Jun 4, 2018 DENVER – Police say the off-duty FBI agent whose gun discharged at a Denver bar early Saturday morning could face charges depending on the results of lab testing. The Denver Police Department on Monday said it was still investigating the shooting that happened at Mile High Spirits around 12:45 a.m. Saturday and asked any witnesses who had not spoken with officers to call them at 720-913-2000. It additionally said that “possible charges regarding the incident are pending laboratory results taken from the subject, to determine if alcohol was a factor, and forensic evidence.” Bob Pence, the former FBI Agent-in-Charge in Denver, told Denver7 Sunday that during his time at the post, agents were “considered on-duty 24 hours a day” and were permitted to carry their weapon everywhere. Pence also said that agents “should not drink excessively.” Joe Deedon, owner of TAC One Law Enforcement Consulting in Denver, said while off-duty agents are permitted to concealed carry in bars, even if there are posted signs prohibiting the practice, they should not be drinking in those situations. "It falls under prohibited use of a weapon," Deedon said. "You don’t have to show the same signs of say being intoxicated while driving a vehicle on a DUI. If you're just a little impaired, even if not legally intoxicated, you could face a misdemeanor charge. The way the statute is written – it’s open to interpretation. We don't even have to take blood or urine samples." The district attorney’s office will determine whether or not the agent, who has not been identified, will face formal charges. Sources familiar with the matter tell ABC News that the agent who was caught on camera accidentally firing off his gun is not based in Colorado. He is an FBI agent based in Washington, DC. The agent "will be held accountable," one FBI official said. However, the FBI official insisted that this agent's "stupid" actions should not tarnish the reputation of an agency that just this past week helped stop a man who planted bombs around Beaumont, Texas. The agent was taken in for questioning by police after the shooting and turned over to an FBI supervisor. Video obtained by Denver7 shows the agent perform a backflip while dancing at the bar, at which time his weapon falls from his waistband. When he goes to pick it up, the weapon discharges. It hit one person in the leg, who suffered non-life-threatening injuries. Mile High Spirits responded to the shooting and allegations about its security team's reaction in a statement Monday afternoon: "At Mile High Spirits, we pride ourselves on being a craft distillery with high quality products and an engaging customer experience, in a fun and safe atmosphere. It is shocking that the only shooting to ever occur at our establishment came about as a result of an FBI agent entering our distillery tasting room carrying a loaded firearm without our knowledge, in violation of our rules. As a result of his misconduct, one of our innocent patrons was shot. "Our security team was able to execute a catastrophic event plan, ensuring, safe exit of all patrons in the establishment after the shooting. We are deeply saddened by the events that occurred and look forward to speaking with representatives of the FBI, so we can come to understand his presence and his need to be armed in our establishment. The whole team at Mile High Spirits is praying for the victim’s quick recovery, and he’s welcome at Mile High Spirits to enjoy complimentary drinks forever." Russell Haythorn contributed to this report. | |||
|
| Be not wise in thine own eyes  |
That's why I was wondering about the 0.08% BAC. Under the Influence in regards to prohibited use of a weapon is not clear in the Colorado Criminal Code. Wow! Mile High Spirits provided a great public response. (See Sigmunds post above) “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden “Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021 | |||
|
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Educated man or field agent? You make the call...         ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
|
| Member |
Recklessly discharging a firearm in an occupied structure is a felony in Colorado,alcohol impairment or not. If his actions were not reckless by anyone's standards,let alone a trained FBI agent,I don't know what is. 2016 Colorado Revised Statutes Title 18 - Criminal Code Article 12 - Offenses Relating to Firearms and Weapons Part 1 - Firearms and Weapons - General § 18-12-107.5. Illegal discharge of a firearm - penalty Universal Citation: CO Rev Stat § 18-12-107.5 (2016) (1) Any person who knowingly or recklessly discharges a firearm into any dwelling or any other building or occupied structure, or into any motor vehicle occupied by any person, commits the offense of illegal discharge of a firearm. (2) It shall not be an offense under this section if the person who discharges a firearm in violation of subsection (1) of this section is a peace officer as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., acting within the scope of such officer's authority and in the performance of such officer's duties. (3) Illegal discharge of a firearm is a class 5 felony. _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
|
Sigforum K9 handler |
Well, I guess you don't know what is, then. https://law.justia.com/codes/c...t-5/section-18-1-501 A few Colorado legal definitions for you. Look up reckless, and knowingly, and you'll find that neither apply in picking up a dropped weapon from the floor. There is absolutely zero intent there, and even if YOU decided that you were going to go full Marilyn Mosby and charge him be damned what the law says, you'd never get a jury to find him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. From time to time, you see people on the internet decry that the cops "refuse to do their job" or some such stuff. But, in the end, the crime didn't fit the statue by definition, but those who believed it did wouldn't hear of it. I said it earlier, all kinds of people negligently shoot others almost daily and don't get charged because of it. Being an idiot just isn't illegal. I asked a loaded question that I already knew the answer to. There is no felony here that I have been able to find that fits. | |||
|
| Member |
Being a trained idiot might be illegal.If the weapon had discharged upon impact of the floor it was accidental. The minute the agent decided to pick up the weapon he could do it safely as he had been trained,without touching the trigger, or recklessly grabbing the weapon by the trigger causing it to discharge. Reckless does not imply intent.This message has been edited. Last edited by: wcb6092, _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
|
Dean of Law |
That is AWESOME! | |||
|
| Be not wise in thine own eyes |
I think the key word is "into" any dwelling. As opposed to within. “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden “Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021 | |||
|
| Ammoholic |
The only felony here may be felony stupidity, and (unfortunately) that isn’t a thing. | |||
|
safe & sound |
Not a felony, but apparently criminal acts none the less. http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_...-accidental-shooting
| |||
|
Member |
Personally, I'm praying this rube was plowed because I don't want to believe the FBI is hiring complete morons that would think attempting a back flip with a firearm stuffed in their waistband was a good idea. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
|
| Member |
The phrase you're looking for Bob is "should not drink, period". The fricking media would absolutely crucify an everyday Joe for doing something this stupid, but somehow, a FBI agent gets a pass from the crucifixion. Uh, hate to be a word nazi, but the word you're looking for is negligently not accidentally. The video clearly shows this was not accidental. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
|
| Member |
This is main reason I like either DA/SA or grip safetys. Doesn't eliminate, but it reduces F/Us I should be tall and rich too; That ain't gonna happen either | |||
|
| Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
They (grip safeties) could get you killed too. To be fair, that's pretty much my opinion of all external safeties. I love my XD45, but the grip safety is why I stopped carrying it. I did high stress drills with my XD including a situation where I might be pinned to the deck and found that I couldn't 100% of the time get a perfect grip to make the gun fire when I pulled the trigger. That was enough to disqualify that gun for me for EDC. I like DA/SA pistols though. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
|
| Member |
jljones go full Marilyn Mosby[/quote] Going full Marilyn Mosby and he would be charged with attempted murder not recklessly handling a firearm. And do really think this guy should just skate Jones? What if it had been one of your training classes and a certified law enforcement officer dropped his weapon and then recklessly picked it up and shot you.Would you just write it off as an accident? If the trajectory had been a little higher and had hit the victim in the head killing him,I think an involuntary manslaughter charge would be appropriate. We are not talking about an 8 year old kid picking up a firearm and discharging it. We are talking about a highly trained Law Enforcement Officer. I am sorry but I think the average civilian would not have walked out without charges that very night. _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
|
| Sigforum K9 handler |
Going full Marilyn Mosby and he would be charged with attempted murder not recklessly handling a firearm. And do really think this guy should just skate Jones? What if it had been one of your training classes and a certified law enforcement officer dropped his weapon and then recklessly picked it up and shot you.Would you just write it off as an accident? If the trajectory had been a little higher and had hit the victim in the head killing him,I think an involuntary manslaughter charge would be appropriate. We are not talking about an 8 year old kid picking up a firearm and discharging it. We are talking about a highly trained Law Enforcement Officer. I am sorry but I think the average civilian would not have walked out without charges that very night.[/QUOTE] So why is it, exactly, by quoting the law, the burden of proof necessary, and the definitions by which the statues are articulated that it is equal to “thinking the guy should just skate”? The easy answer is that it is the internet pack mentality that if you dare not stand with us that you are against us. When in fact it is simply pointing out that the law doesn’t allow what you are suggesting. I’ve posted the definitions in the chapter and his actions were not reckless by that definition. Sorry, it’s not about what you believe but what you can prove. Want him to do time for serious stuff? Then lobby the legislature to change the law and definitions to make this a felony. Because right now, they MAY have him (or you or me) on a misdomeanor, but that’s it. AND much like you think that the “average civilian” (whatever that is) wouldn have fared so well, the very rules and statues apply just the same. Except for in the cases where people just like you want to apply a law that doesn’t fit because of an agenda. And despite all of that, you notice that only a few instances are presented where “average civilians” are actually charged in these cases, given the fact that these things happen daily across the state? That’s pretty damning evidence that you would be wrong in your assumption. And it also shows that when they do get charged, they get charged with a middomeanor because the rest of it just doesn’t fit. That is evidence in what I’ve been saying all along if you just want to listen. Either we follow the law, or we don’t. You need to choose. Just remember, though, if you choose poorly the next time it may be you that the mob wants to not follow the law on. This isn’t what I think or what I believe, it’s what the statue and definitions actually say as it is applied to the limited amount of information that we have. I think the guy is a jagaloon that has no business carrying a gun, but that matters not. | |||
|
| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
In pertinent part...... (6) "Knowingly" or "willfully". All offenses defined in this code in which the mental culpability requirement is expressed as "knowingly" or "willfully" are declared to be general intent crimes. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully" with respect to conduct or to a circumstance described by a statute defining an offense when he is aware that his conduct is of such nature or that such circumstance exists. A person acts "knowingly" or "willfully", with respect to a result of his conduct, when he is aware that his conduct is practically certain to cause the result. (8) "Recklessly". A person acts recklessly when he consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that a result will occur or that a circumstance exists. Link Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
|
Still finding my way |
| |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
Topic ClosedSIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge Off-duty FBI agent allegedly shot a man accidentally after gun falls on dance floor in Denver bar
Main Page The Lounge Off-duty FBI agent allegedly shot a man accidentally after gun falls on dance floor in Denver bar© SIGforum 2024