quote:

Originally posted by Graniteguy:
Don't assume everyone is infuriated. If I have learned one thing during this fiasco - it is that there is a frightening number of Americans who are more than willing to surrender individual (and collective) liberties and freedoms in exchange for the veil of safety and security.

Agreed. The reports of Americans reporting other Americans for various violations of these Stay-at-Home orders sickens me.

The restaurant owners that have violated the orders to remain closed (after taking extreme precautions to comply with social distancing and cleaning mandates), such as what I posted previously, have had some of their neighbors or others report them for the violation, and also reported that they are receiving horrible profanity-laced name calling and death threat phone calls to their businesses, as well as on their websites and social media pages.

The Left thrives on fear, panic, and divisive tactics.

Looks like Elon Musk has had enough. We'll see if this pans out. Tweet within the last few hours.

He went on to claim 10,000 people work for him in Fremont. If that's true, then the county really can't afford to waive bye-bye to him. As for the Interim Health Officer, I wouldn't wanna piss of some guy who's perfectly capable of sicking Grimes on you.

I know several people that work white collar jobs at the Fremont Tesla plant. They are not high up enough to know if he’s bluffing but I wish he would walk. Elon is quirky for sure and may do it. I do know that area took a hit when Toyota up and left the same facility.

quote:

Originally posted by airsoft guy:
When they ban hunting and fishing (thanks Governor Douche Sock), you know it's not about "flattening the curve", it's about how much power can the government take before people start shooting.

it seems the rules of government are: Emanuel's, Never let a crisis go to waste
Once you have control, never let up
The Constitution is nonexistent.

quote:

Originally posted by bendable:
Prove all the " experts" wrong . Protesters need to put 45 total strangers or in a motel room for 48 hours and the run out and get tested, THAT will show those so called " experts" . Take that ! Science !

Whatcha smokin' there , me boy.

quote:

Originally posted by ElToro:
I know several people that work white collar jobs at the Fremont Tesla plant. They are not high up enough to know if he’s bluffing but I wish he would walk. Elon is quirky for sure and may do it. I do know that area took a hit when Toyota up and left the same facility.

Toyota didn’t just “up and leave”. That plant was a joint venture with Garbage Motors. Garbage Motors pulled out and that forced Toyota to close the plant and move production to Mississippi.

Alot of the bad decisions some of these governors make is not being willing to say that based on what we "now "know we're going to change course. They can't admit a bad call. Also it's now obvious the democratic party is giving marching orders to these governors in order to try and hurt Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Sorry, but no pass or quarter given for "past decisions" that blatantly violated the Constitution and Bill of Rights. There does not exist "fuzzy information" that permits the Constitution to be suspended to save people from a disease that 98-99 percent of people will recover from.

The Constitution doesn't have a "save grandpa" or "let the hospitals clear out" clause.

People need to come to the understanding that either the Constitution applies always, or if they think this kind of maltreatment of citizens is ok given certain circumstances, that is by definition statist.

Either you support the Bill of Rights or you don't. You can't have it both ways as so many people are now trying to do.

While this doesn’t need to be derailed in a Constitutional debate, I just want to say that I think your statement of “you either believe in Bill of Rights or you don’t” is bullshit.

I specifically point to the 10th Amendment. You may not like it, but it’s there. Does the 10th apply to coronavirus? That’s a debate as anything is. You trying to make it so black and white is simply not how Constitutional Law works. There is room for smart people who love our Country and Constitution to logically reason that the Constitution was not violated in any of this thus far.

Freedom of religion --
Freedom of association--
Trampled

quote:

Originally posted by mrmn50:

Freedom of religion --
Freedom of association--
Trampled

The funny thing is even the lefty Circuits are saying the Constitution was violated. But, you heard it here first, believing in the Constitution is bullshit. Insert fence sitter excuses here......

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Sorry, but no pass or quarter given for "past decisions" that blatantly violated the Constitution and Bill of Rights. There does not exist "fuzzy information" that permits the Constitution to be suspended to save people from a disease that 98-99 percent of people will recover from.

The Constitution doesn't have a "save grandpa" or "let the hospitals clear out" clause.

People need to come to the understanding that either the Constitution applies always, or if they think this kind of maltreatment of citizens is ok given certain circumstances, that is by definition statist.

Either you support the Bill of Rights or you don't. You can't have it both ways as so many people are now trying to do.

While this doesn’t need to be derailed in a Constitutional debate, I just want to say that I think your statement of “you either believe in Bill of Rights or you don’t” is bullshit.

I specifically point to the 10th Amendment. You may not like it, but it’s there. Does the 10th apply to coronavirus? That’s a debate as anything is. You trying to make it so black and white is simply not how Constitutional Law works. There is room for smart people who love our Country and Constitution to logically reason that the Constitution was not violated in any of this thus far.

As long are we're going back to page 2, this NEEDS to be responded to....

The 10th Amendment does NOT give the States the power to ignore the previous Nine Amendments! And as far as I'm concerned, with respect to the Bill of Rights, without question, it's pretty Black & White....That's EXACTLY why it was added to the Constitution!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Waste of breath or bandwidth, bro.

That’s why I just dropped it. Either you support the Bill of Rights or you don’t. Too many fence sitters and Scooters out there that want to make excuses and explain it away otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by kramden:
Alot of the bad decisions some of these governors make is not being willing to say that based on what we "now "know we're going to change course. They can't admit a bad call. Also it's now obvious the democratic party is giving marching orders to these governors in order to try and hurt Trump.

100% Agree. It's clear they dug in too deep and are scared to admit their mistakes. And once they realized this will hurt Trump and they can push for mail in voting, they have zero incentive to end it.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Waste of breath or bandwidth, bro.

That’s why I just dropped it. Either you support the Bill of Rights or you don’t. Too many fence sitters and Scooters out there that want to make excuses and explain it away otherwise.

Its interesting to see what people are willing to do in the name of life, and look right over liberty in doing so, even develop excuses for their reasons to shelve liberty.

Self preservation has a way of changing peoples outlook at that specific moment, what do they say, "there's no atheists in foxholes?"

We see people who would never own a gun, buy a gun hence the mad rush to own a firearm in the past few months,

We see people that would normally complain about police not interfering enough with liberal protests, upset with police interfering with "let me out it's my right to shop, boat, bike, etc".

Either the constitution applies or it doesn't, it's simple. Usurping authority that violates the constitution regardless of the reason, namely the safety of the people, isn't acceptable.

But who's going to stop them the next time, will it get to the courts, and by the time it gets there, since this will be over will it survive the challenge, will safety trump liberty.

The question is, who will lead the battle to challenge the actions of Whitmer, Lil Andy et al once they are out of their bubbles...

It's reasonable to expect the government to issue directives on the proper dress, spacing, face masks etc. However, IMHO it's not reasonable for them to decide what type of business can be open, where you can go, what you can do, who you can do it with.

If several thousand people can crowd into Wal-Mart, Lowes, Home-Depot and the grocery store, then they can go into Davids Jewelry store in LA. I'm sure David knows what he needs to do to protect his customers and staff, and what he'll need to do to provide the scenario where people feel comfortable.

Rules on being open and dress during the pandemic, ok, shutting down the states economy, over the top.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Sorry, but no pass or quarter given for "past decisions" that blatantly violated the Constitution and Bill of Rights. There does not exist "fuzzy information" that permits the Constitution to be suspended to save people from a disease that 98-99 percent of people will recover from.

The Constitution doesn't have a "save grandpa" or "let the hospitals clear out" clause.

People need to come to the understanding that either the Constitution applies always, or if they think this kind of maltreatment of citizens is ok given certain circumstances, that is by definition statist.

Either you support the Bill of Rights or you don't. You can't have it both ways as so many people are now trying to do.

While this doesn’t need to be derailed in a Constitutional debate, I just want to say that I think your statement of “you either believe in Bill of Rights or you don’t” is bullshit.

I specifically point to the 10th Amendment. You may not like it, but it’s there. Does the 10th apply to coronavirus? That’s a debate as anything is. You trying to make it so black and white is simply not how Constitutional Law works. There is room for smart people who love our Country and Constitution to logically reason that the Constitution was not violated in any of this thus far.

As long are we're going back to page 2, this NEEDS to be responded to....

The 10th Amendment does NOT give the States the power to ignore the previous Nine Amendments! And as far as I'm concerned, with respect to the Bill of Rights, without question, it's pretty Black & White....That's EXACTLY why it was added to the Constitution!

If the Bill of Rights is "Black and White", why do we have SCOTUS (and the other courts of appeal) to interpret it for us?

Never try to teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

quote:

If the Bill of Rights is "Black and White", why do we have SCOTUS (and the other courts of appeal) to interpret it for us? Roll Eyes

We don't. We have SCOTUS to insist that the rest of government (to include lower courts) has to obey the Constitution. In order to carry out that function, the SCOTUS must, of necessity, have the last word when it comes to "interpreting" the Constitution. See Marbury v. Madison.

A few posts up I reported on some of our local restaurants that violated our Governor's orders regarding dine-in... he just had the state health department suspend the license of one of them indefinitely, at least 30 days, and they will likely not survive. The owners gave each employee the option to work and violate the order and they all chose to do so.

The other restaurants continue to violate the order and the Governor's focus is now turning towards them, although he is hoping the respective counties will shut them down so he won't have to. Several counties have received variances and our county is set to vote on and then request a variance from the Governor.

[Note: pictures and video can be found at the linked story]

State to Suspend License of Castle Rock Restaurant that Violated Order

Erin Prater erin.prater@gazette.com May 11, 2020

The state health department is using its authority to indefinitely shutter a Castle Rock restaurant that was open this weekend for dine-in service, defying a public health order, Colorado Gov. Jared Polis announced Monday.

The restaurant, C&C Breakfast & Korean Kitchen, caused an immediate health hazard by doing so, Polis said during a news conference. The department is using its authority under the state's Food Protection Act to shutter the eatery until it is "no longer a threat to public health and hazards are removed," he said. He also said the restaurant's license would be suspended "indefinitely" and "probably for 30 days."

Polis said it was "unfortunate" that the restaurant and its employees "will have to suffer the economic loss of a prolonged closure." Images posted online showed the restaurant open for Mother's Day with a large crowd and no social distancing.

"I love my mom far too much to visit a restaurant operating illegally just to take a selfie with omelettes and mimosa," he said, adding that Coloradans are "better than that."

He also said Coloradans are better than statements being made that those who ate at open restaurants this weekend "deserve" to get the virus.

"We're walking a tightrope between protecting our health and protecting our economy," he said, adding that it's difficult enough to walk that tightrope when people are "shaking the rope" with their ideological views.

Restaurant owner Jesse Arellano, in an interview with Gazette news partner KKTV, said customers came from places other than Castle Rock, including on Monday.

"People are even coming from Pueblo and Security, so they can celebrate freedom because this is what freedom feels like," he said. "We're fighting for our constitutional rights. ... All of us are Americans, no matter what you believe or feel. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave."

Colorado Springs resident Robert Taylor, who has been a regular at the restaurant for four years, said there was a "jubilant atmosphere" at the cafe Monday.

"We talked with Jesse and we prayed with him today," Taylor said. "In fact, all the customers that were in there, about 15 of us, we just gathered and circled up and prayed."

Polis ordered restaurants and bars in the state closed for dine-in service to help reduce the spread of COVID-19. No date has been set for allowing more than take-out or delivery service, though the governor is eyeing late May as a potential date that restaurants may be allowed to re-open for dine-in service, depending on data.

He said Monday he hopes to announce a decision on May 25 as to how restaurants can "continue to exist in these challenging times."

If 40 or 50 restaurants opened for dine-in like C&C did, "at least a couple of those" would likely have coronavirus outbreaks, Polis said. "And it would go to tens or dozens of people in that kind of packed-in, illegal environment."

Polis called death from coronavirus "particularly agonizing, painful and lonely," and encouraged Coloradans considering eating at dine-in restaurants to read stories of those who survived, or from loved ones of those who did not.

There are "priceless lives we can still save" and we can emerge "sooner rather than later, with more lives intact from this pandemic" if Coloradans act responsibly, he added.

Residents "don't have to agree with every law — I don't," Polis said. "... But we all believe in the rule of law and need to follow the laws and work through legitimate channels to challenge those laws.

The governor said he does not think that criminal cases should be pursued against restaurants that defy the public health order and open for dine-in service, "but it's up to the local sheriff and DA."

When asked whether public health would shutter other restaurants open for dine-in service during the public health order, a spokesman for the governor said only that "the governor is disappointed when businesses break the law and subject themselves to legal penalties.”

Counties typically lead on enforcement actions, according to state health officials. If the state chooses to also take action, that doesn't preclude the county from doing so, they said. Typically the state will get involved when there has been no county action to suspend/close a violating facility, or when there are willful, flagrant violations.

A spokeswoman for El Paso County Public Health said Monday she had no updates on Karen's Kitchen, Stephanie's Bar and Grill, and Western Omelette 3, Calhan restaurants that opened for dine-in service last week in defiance of the public health order for restaurants to remain closed for dine-in service.

Cease and desist orders had not been delivered, a department spokeswoman said Friday.

Josh Bowsher, a manager at Karen's Kitchen, said Monday business had been "massive" and was helping to make up for the losses the restaurant took in March and April.

A call to Western Omelette 3 was not returned.

"To survive as a business, I encourage all small businesses to follow [C&C's] example," Taylor said, "and to follow the example of Western Omelette and Karen's [Kitchen] out in Calhan and to follow the example of the pizza place in Parker. More small businesses need to be standing on constitutional rights just to take care of their family and operate a business and we're through the worst of what has happened. Other states have opened up and Colorado should open, too."

When asked if Taylor will go to the C&C cafe Tuesday, he replied "oh, we're going there tomorrow - he'll be open."

At the time of the interview with KKTV, Arellano said he hadn't yet read the order from Tri County Health Department to determine if he will open Tuesday.

Nearby, in Teller County, a sports bar and grill is allowing customers to consume food on its premises, though the owner argues they're consuming it off-premise, a county administrator said.

The county has had "several communications" with Russ' Place, but "they aren't strictly abiding by the public health order and that's unfortunate," said Sheryl Decker. "It puts public health in the middle of it. We really wish we weren't in this place, but that's where we are."

A final notice was sent Friday to the eatery that was "pretty stern," she said. She wasn't sure what was next, but if the process is still underway when restaurants are allowed to re-open for dine-in service, "hypothetically, I would recommend to our county that ... we just move on," she said.

Calls to Russ' Place were not returned.

In other coronavirus-related news Monday:

- Polis said he will travel to Washington Wednesday to talk with President Donald Trump "with some trepidation," as he'll be flying commercially. "It's important for him to hear what's going on on the ground," Polis said of the president. There was "really no way I could say no" to advancing the needs of the people of Colorado. Read more.

- The state reported 19,899 confirmed positives cases of coronavirus in Colorado, Polis said, adding that the actual number is likely two to four times that. The number of deaths from COVID-19 reached 981.

- The daily growth rate of coronavirus cases continues to decrease, Polis said, with the latest growth rate, 0.9%, marking the first time the state has seen a daily growth rate below 1%. The growth rate for daily hospitalizations is 0.1%, he said. But he cautioned that despite the lower rates, the virus continues to spread.

- There has been a limited allocation of the medication Remdesivir for Colorado, Polis said. "If it continues to be clinically promising, we hope supplies continue to increase," It's promising but "not a game-changer or a cure," Polis said.

- Camping can resume unless a host county isn't ready, Polis said. "We are one of the few states that have kept our state parks open during this entire crisis," Polis said. Opening showers, yurts and cabins will be phased in after the opening of camp sites, he added. Read more.

- Polis said he hopes to announce when summer camps, including day camps, might be open on May 25 for June. "We plan to give as accurate as a picture of June as we can in late May," he said.

- Polis addressed those who downplay the virus by comparing it to the cold or flu, saying, "None of those require one in 10 people to be hospitalized." The difference between the cold/flu and coronavirus is "stark," he said.

- The state has been in the Safer at Home phase of tackling the pandemic for two weeks, meaning "in the next week we're just starting to see the very first people who became infected as restrictions are loosened," Polis said, noting the data will help determine actions for the future. "We don't want another wave to set us back from our goals, from being able to go back to work, to school, to summer camp, all those important things."

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:

quote:

Originally posted by kramden:
It is now becoming obvious that the "models" of dire consequences from the virus are off......WAY OFF. And it is also obvious a number of governors are going to make this as painful as possible in the hope of hurting Trump. These shutdowns are going to cause more damage than any virus. Peoples lives and business' are being destroyed. If you're in the government your paycheck is still there and your pension isn't touched. It's time for We The People to take our lives back.

Dude, what’s the matter? Did you get to the end of Netflix and run out of beer & Fritos?

Sorry, Patriot, I do not see your point. Kramden is right. I M more than a little surprised at you.

So a Gym defied the Governor of NJ this a.m. and opened with proper protocol the police cordoned off the area and a swat team arrived.
So IF the people that went in are ok with any possible risks, why was a SWAT team called in? Attilio's Gym, Belmar NJ, showing on Fox News network. The natives are restless and we will see more and more defiance like this.