Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by lastmanstanding:

quote:

Which of the arguments are you getting a laugh at?

Don't expect a answer. His thread title already categorized those who don't agree with his opinion on EV's as haters. Then in the body of the message he uses FUD's and anything that may be presented in his created thread as worn out arguments. He then attempts to inoculate himself by listing all the gas powered equipment he owns. And then further detaches himself by saying not to expect him to join the discussion as he only wants to return to laugh at the responses.
All sorts of shade and run in one post. Not bad.

Actually he's just pissed off because there were opposing views posted in the other EV threads.

Actually on the contrary. I just got tired of seeing perfectly good constructive threads on EVs shit on by those that have a greivance and the same tired arguments (FUD) are always used

No different than when someone used to start a thread about Apple products not long ago. They quickly delved into I hate Apple and the purpose of the thread become mute

I have no issues with differing opinions. I have a problem with people purposefully interjecting in threads with opines which have zero purpose

Hence I started a thread specifically for all the EV Haters

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
I believe the cars are here to stay and we need a way to charge them and recycle them.

I'm not willing to commit to them being the future just yet, but I would love it if someone with a functioning brain stem in Washington (a stretch I realize) would start rationally and intelligently approaching the issue of how to support them. Their "build it and they will come" approach does not inspire me on any level.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

.

That's 1.5-2.5 months worth of driving for me.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

I really don't think that's the hurdle most people will get hung up on. If an EV got 500 miles on a charge and could re-charge in five minutes at an abundance of convenient locations, and finally, could be bought for $30-35k, they wouldn't need subsidies or other gimmicks for people to seriously consider one. Unfortunately that's not the current reality of today's EV's.

quote:

Originally posted by dlc444:
I would very much like for someone far more knowledgeable than I to actually compute the energy cost and "carbon" to operate an EV. The electricity that charges the batteries costs carbon to produce (unless it is nuclear).

There is always energy loss,, think of Newton or even entropy. It may very well cost more carbon (the grail of EVs) than petroleum products to run a vehicle. Plus the massive environmental impact of mining, producing and disposing of the batteries.

Im not smart enough to do the calculations though.

I’m approaching 8 straight years of daily driving an EV, and for those 8 years it’s been “charged” by the sun, via 35 panels on the house. So it doesn’t “cost” me anything and this time of year I’m regularly putting energy onto the grid for others to use.

I am, however, happy to produce carbon with my motorcycles, jet ski and truck.

I think the mistake people often make, is they naively believe those of us who drive the things did it for political reasons. I did it for financial reasons first and foremost. The other main reason is I live real close to work but due to heat and humidity, or cold, walking or riding a bicycle ain’t happening. But the mileage is short enough that it would tear a gas or diesel motor up. I had a turbo diesel wagon prior to the EV and the commute was so short, that in the winter, the motor would never even get up to temp and be turned off cold. Gas motor wouldn’t fair much better either.

Combined, it saves me a few thousand per year and I rarely go over $100 a month on gas. Each to their own though. Until someone else is paying my bills, that’s how it is going to be. I’ve tried paying bills with other people’s opinions and the shit bounced. I did remove all the “zero emission” and “electric vehicle” bullshit logos from the vehicle so it just looks your average hatchback on the road. Nobody pays it any mind and I’m not trying to make any statements. Even the stock wheels are gone.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

.

That's 1.5-2.5 months worth of driving for me.

While not often, there are times I'll drive that in a day. I'd rather not add an hour or two to the trip to have to recharge multiple times. As it is, I just have to refuel once and keep going.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

I really don't think that's the hurdle most people will get hung up on. If an EV got 500 miles on a charge and could re-charge in five minutes at an abundance of convenient locations, and finally, could be bought for $30-35k, they wouldn't need subsidies or other gimmicks for people to seriously consider one. Unfortunately that's not the current reality of today's EV's.

A major advancement in recharging speed would do.

The problem is this:

The global warming LIE has demonized petroleum and IC engines in general. The LIE is being perpetuated by statists and communists to make ALL combustion of ALL economically efficient fuels into an existential threat in order to CONTROL the use of said fuels.

Combustion is the only power source that is readily available to the masses ON DEMAND and cost effective on a small to medium scale. Nuclear is impossible except on a very large scale. Wind requires huge windmills on a large scale. Solar can be small scale but cannot be ON DEMAND.

So they push EV's to perpetuate the LIE. Because it sounds good to people with no clue. The other day our brain dead VP talked about how dirty diesel engines are and how much cleaner EV school buses will be and not cause children to breath pollution. I'm like WTF? I've spent the last 15 years of my life implementing new diesel engine production systems to make diesel engines so clean that they can pass a "white hanky" test. No soot, no sulfer, low NOX.

ANYONE that is around diesel engines knows how much better they are now.

But they need to perpetuate the LIE for CONTROL. And in the near future, your SOCIAL CREDIT will determine if you can travel by plane. Sorry dude, you don't have enough credits to fly, you have to take the train. CO2 yo. Extrapolate that to ALL combustion....

There's two things for EV's that won't work for me.
One, the range. I go off roading a lot, and travel a lot. Waiting on charging is a no go and that's assuming I find a charging station even remotely near some of the places I go. Add in I have one vehicle and have zero interest in having two.
Second major thing, the life expectancy of the batteries. They are good for about 100k right now, and at that point it's time to sink 7k-10k in replacing them. I never buy new cars (lightly used with usually 20-40k miles on them), so sinking that money into just about the time I average paying it off isn't happening.

If those two things change, which I believe they will over time, I could be talked into one (most likely a hybrid truck like the new tundra). But the battery replacement cost has to come down to like 1000-1500 all in for labor and new batteries. I'm not paying more for batteries than I ever would for a decent suspension like icon, king, Bilstein, ect.

The reason this thread exists, to me, is that the users of EV on this board are taking these points personally. Like they are being insulted. You aren’t.

Nobody (mostly) cares if you like your EV. Or if you charge it via your own solar panels. Good for you. Free America and all that. What is generally being said is that we don’t like the force feeding of this agenda regardless of what we prefer. The outright lies and manipulation of information to paint EV into something it can’t possibly provide. Nobody cares that you like your car. That’s great. It’s all the other stuff that isn’t great and when you guys unintentionally parrot the narrative you are part of the problem.

It’s like the vaccine. I have no feeling whatsoever about an individual getting or not getting the vaccine. It’s the mandate that I will fight. Same with EV. The government through overt action and mainly through unelected bureaucracies and their regulations are forcing this down your throat.

This isn’t anything like Apple haters. At the end of the day Apple won’t take away your ability to choose another operating system. It’s a fucking choice. This or that or something else. EV by design will be your only option if the govt has its way. That should make you ponder the next time you carry their water on the EV argument.

There is nothing wrong with EV's per se. It's just how we generate the current they consume. Porsche modeled one before the VW, direct drive motors in the wheels. Like the present models, it has restricted run time using power that isn't generated on it.

Like the caseless ammo battle rifle, wouldn't we be better off to use the intermediate step of hybrids? Much like Unit Rig 200 ton dump trucks, the power plant runs at the most efficient rpms to power a generator which drives the electric motors in the wheels. Scaled up, Porsche's experiment works quite well if you take out the requirement to store the energy. Why not just make it using the most economical power source?

Some were using steam powered vehicles in the early days, there was an issue with preplanning your start up and an hour coming up to useful working energy. We tend to be a bit more impulsive.

If all the issues, the current one (yah) is forcing a conversion to EV just when policy is also removing power generation capacity because "pollution." It's directly contradictory and our present experience with wind and solar has proven the worst case situation. When the grid fails, the resourceful shrug it off and get more firewood for the stove from the rick.

Considering how Texas suffered from that last year nobody is talking about their great woodstove sales this year. Are they ignoring it to put a good face on it? What happened last year? They blamed Texas for not being connected to the larger power grid. They would not admit the lack of fossil fuel generated energy was the real problem.

What the real agenda is control - if you can't travel 800 miles in one day, who is jerking your chain now? Power grid failures? Ok, what freedoms do you want to give up to improve that? Politically its always a tradeoff to take our rights in exchange for security. Having been born in a generation where dial telephones and flathead motors were the existing tech, jets just being introduced, and our Interstate system created, there have been some nice improvements, but there have also been some serious incursions in our freedoms.

I will stick to a ICE vehicle to get to the Gulf coast and soak in the sun for awhile longer. One day trip, 14 hours. Yall try to get there in less than 48 hours. Hybrids can, EV's aren't ready yet. Im not driving a battery operated 3,800 pound luxury golf cart expecting it to perform that task.

Can you imagine the electrical impact of hundreds of thousands of coastal residents topping off their EV's two days before a hurricane makes landfall to travel out of the impact zone? Katrina will look leisurely. And what about Sturgis? Can't wait to see the EV Harleys keeping up with the gas versions on that road trip. If your HD is hooked up recharging at the dive bar and a gunfight breaks out, how do you escape the mayhem pushing it down the road? Ask a biker for his honest opinion. Drag racer? Sure. EV's are competitive. Touring cruiser? Oh hell no.

Can you imagine the size of the solar cell field with wind generation charging 50,000 bikes? Yes, they had that many at Sturgis this year. The gas stations try to keep up and do, the electrical grid for a weekend of fun? Who's paying for that?

It's not the EV's, its the complete lack of an adequate grid when we have been forcing the reduction of consumption for half a century.

Need more laughs I can post some more, but

I wonder what the debates were like 100 years ago in ICE vs. EV. EV lost round one 100 years ago.

Govt. involvement and advances in battery technology as well as electrical energy production have brought the debate back.

Having solar panels charge your EV does not make you EV energy usage free. I'm there sure are charges to acquire and install the solar system and its installation. Plus there is 'some' maintenance - I think one needs to clean the panels once a year - dust and debris on the panels.

There is also a cost in time down - when charging. Granted, one can optimize this to perhaps 0 cost/impact.

Also, solar energy system life is not eternal, 20-25 year life span, and cell efficiency does degrade over time.

There is no 'free' energy, even if govt. subsidized. Defies the know laws of Physics.

I'm for nuclear power. After all, it powers the EV that is charged by a solar panel system. The Nuclear energy station is just 93 million miles distant. Having such stations closer to home is better.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
....

It’s like the vaccine. I have no feeling whatsoever about an individual getting or not getting the vaccine. It’s the mandate that I will fight. Same with EV. The government through overt action and mainly through unelected bureaucracies and their regulations are forcing this down your throat.

....

Bingo!



You get a trophy, because here's the answer.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

.

That's 1.5-2.5 months worth of driving for me.

I drive 1,275 miles in less than 24 hours 2X every other month. Brutal, but that's the mission - almost border to border. I can't see a coal powered EV working out in my lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by aileron:

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Until they can get 800 miles on a charge they'll never serve as my only vehicle.

.

That's 1.5-2.5 months worth of driving for me.

I drive 1,275 miles in less than 24 hours every other month. Brutal, but that's the mission - almost border to border. I can't see a coal powered EV working out in my lifetime.

I've had my car for three years. It gets 15mpg and my weekly commute is 53 miles. I could charge once a week and be fine. I could even set up a couple solar panels in my driveway and charge it up over the weekend and not use grid power or gasoline at all. I only get 250mi per tank currently.

Not against them, folks should be able to buy what they want.

Wish they would make a hybrid truck with these specs:

Multifuel microturbine 8-10Kw generator
AWD/4WD
Mil-spec electrical connections
NO FACTORY Bleutooth, onstar, sync, etc. Leave me options to install what I want.
Minimal controllers, no integrated BS with the PCM.

There is more I would like, but the specs above are pretty firm. Too much "smart" crap, proprietary software and hardware turns me off.

Wish someone would start making retrofit hybrid kits for older trucks. Something that could replace a V8 gas engine, utilize the existing drivetrain, and generate 5 or 6Kw when parked.

At the end of the era, steam powered cars were powered by natural gas or propane and were at full operating pressure in about thirty seconds.

They were ready to go while the drivers of gas powered cars were still adjusting the air/fuel ratio and ignition timing to keep the engine running while it was cold.

Steam became efficient enough to go through trial phases during the OPEC energy crisis in the late '60s and early '70s.

Technology marches on...

The problem lies in the part where the government starts picking winners at the expense of the free market.

Propane powered vehicles or multi fuel by using propane or conventional gas always made more sense to me. Propane is something we have a abundance of in the USA. We have been using it in forklifts and other utility vehicles for years. There have been school buses and fleet vehicles using it for years and the infrastructure is for the most part already in place. A lot of service stations already have the capability to fill a propane tank.

But you know drilling for gas and all that. Much better to be dependent on foreign entities to manufacture and provide us with batteries and spend billions on developing infrastructure.

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Lot's of investment opportunities once you accept that the world is headed for EV's.

Compact fluorescent lightbulbs… Anyone remember the mandate?

Funny how we all use LEDs now.

Keep the goobers away.