I wonder if Ford would have seen the same reaction if they made an 800-1200hp electric Mustang with a manual transmission AND THE EXACT SAME LOOKING BODY. Ford decided instead to make the vehicle look like a boring crossover SUV with Mustang logos. Why Ford!? Did they expect Mustang owners to get excited? Were they high?

If Ford had any brains they would make the Mustang E look almost identical to the ICE Mustang except with the addition of a more sporty aesthetic and vastly superior power. Make it the top tier performance vehicle and you’ll win the gear heads over eventually.

It was almost like Ford wanted to make me (a life long Mustang enthusiast and owner of 3 Mustangs) just fucking hate that vehicle.

Sure they might sell. There is an abundance of horrible uninspired shit on the roads today but I can’t help but consider it a mistake by Ford. Why didn’t they make an E - SUV and an E Mustang that’s worthy of the name? If electric is the future, why not try to make the future fun too?

Tesla does well because the car is both electric AND easy on the eyes.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
I wonder if Ford would have seen the same reaction if they made an 800-1200hp electric Mustang with a manual transmission AND THE EXACT SAME LOOKING BODY. Ford decided instead to make the vehicle look like a boring crossover SUV with Mustang logos. Why Ford!? Did they expect Mustang owners to get excited? Were they high?

If Ford had any brains they would make the Mustang E look almost identical to the ICE Mustang except with the addition of a more sporty aesthetic and vastly superior power. Make it the top tier performance vehicle and you’ll win the gear heads over eventually.

It was almost like Ford wanted to make me (a life long Mustang enthusiast and owner of 3 Mustangs) just fucking hate that vehicle.

Sure they might sell. There is an abundance of horrible uninspired shit on the roads today but I can’t help but consider it a mistake by Ford. Why didn’t they make an E - SUV and an E Mustang that’s worthy of the name? If electric is the future, why not try to make the future fun too?

Tesla does well because the car is both electric AND easy on the eyes.

%100 nailed it.

One of they guys from my dojo is a gear head and drives a Mustang. I took him for a spin in my Model 3 and did a few "launches". His response... "I used to make fun of these. Now I can't."

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I'm about 900 miles into my first 2/3 of a tank of gas in my Volvo XC90 Recharge. It's a plug in hybrid, meaning I've got both an ICE engine, as well as electric motors and batteries powerful enough to move the car alone. I'm averaging something like 75mpg (and rising as I put more miles on the electric motors) in an SUV with 400hp and 470ft lbs of torque on tap. When you drive it reasonably, the torque is instant and power delivery is smooth. It's a very good implementation of a family car power train, regardless of it's "eco friendly" status symbol.
Vehicle electrification is the future.

So, to the extent that people will bitch about range, lack of charging infrastructure, or fragility of the grid, a plug in hybrid answers a lot of those complaints.

At the moment, these are the reasons I would certainly consider a hybrid.

When range or easy, widespread and fast charging improves, I have would consider a fully electric vehicle.

quote:

wonder if Ford would have seen the same reaction if they made an 800-1200hp electric Mustang with a manual transmission AND THE EXACT SAME LOOKING BODY. Ford decided instead to make the vehicle look like a boring crossover SUV with Mustang logos. Why Ford!? Did they expect Mustang owners to get excited? Were they high?

Funny I remember when similar comments were made about Porsche losing it's mind when it rolled out the Cayenne SUV, how dare they, management is wrong, nobody wants a Porsche SUV, except, people did, and it outsells everything they make, pretty soon Lamborghini jumped in, Bentley, people want the make, and the vehicle.

Those hot rods would be bought up by speculators, as well has dealers marking them up like C8 Z06 cars into the stratosphere range, where few can afford to play, same as the GT 350 or GT 500's . Who knows Ford may just release a super hyper mustang Boss-E...

Interesting take though on the Mustang-E failures considering yet it's the second highest selling EV behind the Tesla Y, and, most dealers are sold out, and, they are commanding premium prices.

I’ve never understood the crossover hate. I’ve owned cars with trunks and crossovers that were basically same footprint. I can get my bike or my dog in the crossover much easier. Sold. Trunks suck.

quote:

Originally posted by jhe888:

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
I'm about 900 miles into my first 2/3 of a tank of gas in my Volvo XC90 Recharge. It's a plug in hybrid, meaning I've got both an ICE engine, as well as electric motors and batteries powerful enough to move the car alone. I'm averaging something like 75mpg (and rising as I put more miles on the electric motors) in an SUV with 400hp and 470ft lbs of torque on tap. When you drive it reasonably, the torque is instant and power delivery is smooth. It's a very good implementation of a family car power train, regardless of it's "eco friendly" status symbol.
Vehicle electrification is the future.

So, to the extent that people will bitch about range, lack of charging infrastructure, or fragility of the grid, a plug in hybrid answers a lot of those complaints.

At the moment, these are the reasons I would certainly consider a hybrid.

When range or easy, widespread and fast charging improves, I have would consider a fully electric vehicle.

At this rate I am going to hit well over 1200 miles on my first tank of gas on the Volvo. The fuel efficiency is a nice perk, but I don't think it should be the main selling point. Ultimately, the XC90 hybrid is more expensive than the next powertrain and trim level down, so the efficiency savings may not always work out numbers wise. (It works out for me here in CA because gas is approaching $5 a gallon and the electricity I'm currently using is my excess generation from my solar project earlier this year, but I recognize that I'm not typical).

The main selling point for me was that it was the top powertrain option for that vehicle. I simply couldn't get a more powerful engine for the XC90. I think we'll be seeing electrification at the top end as a "performance" powertrain option rather than an "economy" play. For example, the Jeep 4xE makes a compelling argument with instant torque down low for off-roading. Porsche is hybridizing many of their vehicles in parallel with the "turbo" offerings. Land Rover's new Defender has the P400e powertrain with 400hp.

I'll bet that many people will end up with an electrified vehicle quite by accident, just like many people out there have turbocharged 4 and 6 cylinder engines without really going out of the way to look for a turbocharged car (e.g., Ford Ecoboost, many of BMW's offerings, etc.). Even more subtle is the introduction of "mild-hybrid" vehicles that basically just uses a big motor for an alternator and just adds a little extra torque down low directly into the existing powertrain. Honestly, that shit should be in everything.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I’ve never understood the crossover hate. I’ve owned cars with trunks and crossovers that were basically same footprint. I can get my bike or my dog in the crossover much easier. Sold. Trunks suck.

I don't think it's necessarily "crossover hate". Ok, maybe for some, it is. But I think the complaint here, specifically, is that the "Mustang" shouldn't be a crossover. If they had just named it a Fusion Mach-E or something, nobody would care. It's the fact that they took the beloved "Mustang" name, which has always existed as a coupe, and turned it into a crossover.

quote:

I don't think it's necessarily "crossover hate". Ok, maybe for some, it is. But I think the complaint here, specifically, is that the "Mustang" shouldn't be a crossover. If they had just named it a Fusion Mach-E or something, nobody would care. It's the fact that they took the beloved "Mustang" name, which has always existed as a coupe, and turned it into a crossover.

They must really hate the Maverick name being on a pickup LOL...

quote:

As with most manufacturing and industry, China currently dominates the battery processing market too, and it is responsible for about 80% of global battery chemical refining capacity. A possibly overlooked supply problem by the Biden administration especially considering President Biden just outlined a plan for 50% of new car purchases to be zero-emissions by 2030.

Yes this could pose a problem Joe.

quote:

Lithium is a mineral that is key for electric car batteries. The pricing for it continues to rise in price, which is jeopardizing the ongoing transition to renewable energy outlined by Western governments. The cost has skyrocketed more than 250% over the last 12 months, hitting its highest level ever, according to an industry index from Benchmark Mineral Intelligence.

The International Energy Agency (IEA) has estimated that the growth in EVs could see lithium demand increase by over 40 times by 2030, according to the International Lithium Association (ILiA) . Last year lithium demand was about 320,000 tonnes and is expected to hit 1 million by 2025 and 3 million by 2030, according to Reuters.

And lithium is only one of the major minerals need to produce these batteries.

quote:

Lithium Americas has proposed to mine lithium on a dormant volcano in Nevada. However, the firm has yet to mine any lithium due to pushback from environmentalists and ongoing lawsuits related to allegations that the federal government approved the company’s mining permit too quickly. If the mine begins production, it could help reduce U.S. reliance on foreign lithium and increase supplies at a time when demand for the mineral is surging.

The U.S. has roughly 750,000 metric tons of lithium that can be mined, but it produces very little and imports tens of thousands of metric tons worth from Argentina, Chile, China and Russia, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS).

This is really what drives me nuts. The same environmentalists who push the green energy. EV's solar etc. do not want to take the steps to actually do it. They are firmly against dirty mining but don't mind it at all when it's done someplace they can't see it in countries who do it in the dirtiest and most unsafe ways with child labor and human rights abuses. Our mines in northern Minnesota are under constant attack to prevent current mining for iron ore, copper and nickel. They go through decades of studies and court challenges to any permits issued. But there isn't one person willing to stop driving their cars, give up their cell phone or stop using gas to heat their homes. These are just a few of the very difficult hurdles EV's are going to have to overcome before they can even hope to become more mainstream.

And finally.

quote:

On the bright side, the $7,500 tax credit for zero-emission vehicles, which is included in the stalled BBB spending bill, might not be necessary after all. There is no reason to offer huge incentives to get drivers to go all-electric when there might not be enough inventory to keep up with the batteries/autos available for sale.

Link

quote:

Lithium Americas has proposed to mine lithium on a dormant volcano in Nevada. However, the firm has yet to mine any lithium due to pushback from environmentalists and ongoing lawsuits related to allegations that the federal government approved the company’s mining permit too quickly. If the mine begins production, it could help reduce U.S. reliance on foreign lithium and increase supplies at a time when demand for the mineral is surging.

The U.S. has roughly 750,000 metric tons of lithium that can be mined, but it produces very little and imports tens of thousands of metric tons worth from Argentina, Chile, China and Russia, according to the United States Geological Survey (USGS).

This is Californiatized, the state that claims low emission low carbon energy that buys it's power from NV, AZ and Mexico who use coal and other fuels to power their plants.

Why people listen to them is beyond logic...

quote:

Lithium Americas

They have a mine in Argentina, hoping Thacker pass gets the green light. I bought some of their stock at $14, it was up to $40 last week, down to $29 today.

GM invested heavily in a company that is pulling Lithium from the muck at the bottom of the Salton Sea, I believe they started up a few weeks ago. I forget the name of the company but they are not public

Current battery technology is not good enough for me to buy an EV, I'll wait

Read my whole post HRK. I mentioned that they will probably sell just fine since people love feel good crossovers. To the Mustang faithful it was disappointing at best.

Well it’s not like a mustang is really a sports car…


(Mic drop)

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
I wonder if Ford would have seen the same reaction if they made an 800-1200hp electric Mustang with a manual transmission AND THE EXACT SAME LOOKING BODY. Ford decided instead to make the vehicle look like a boring crossover SUV with Mustang logos. Why Ford!? Did they expect Mustang owners to get excited? Were they high?

My understanding is that it was a marketing decision. Trying to catch up to Tesla's name recognition, they took the most recognizable Ford nameplate...other than the F-150...to step into the EV market.

BTW a manual transmission really doesn't work with an EV as thee motors are usually directly linked to the driveshafts...that's why you have 3-motor and 4-motor EV performance vehicles.

quote:

If Ford had any brains they would make the Mustang E look almost identical to the ICE Mustang except with the addition of a more sporty aesthetic and vastly superior power. Make it the top tier performance vehicle and you’ll win the gear heads over eventually.

Part of the problem with that is where to place the battery pack..that is why the higher profile of an SUV works better in an EV

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:
The R model comes with 670-966 HP and a range in excess of 500 miles, while the P model come with 804-1111 HP but range falls to 470 miles

Just remember, those mileage estimates haven't been verified by independent reviews yet, so you might want to take them with a grain of salt at this point.

Real world verification you say?

https://www.motortrend.com/rev...-first-drive-review/

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
Read my whole post HRK. I mentioned that they will probably sell just fine since people love feel good crossovers. To the Mustang faithful it was disappointing at best.

I read your post and understand it and don't disagree that Mustang aficionados have some issues with a SUV having the name plate.

However the point is that like the Porsche faithful had the same issues with the company rolling out a "gasp" SUV Cayenne, it turned out to be a top seller. These same folks ended up adding the SUV to the garage with the 911/996/997 et al...

Over time maybe even Mustang lovers will end up buying one to add to the Mustang fleet, time changes things, and if they make it super quick an handle well, who knows...

What would be cooler than a GT-350 and a Mach E in the stable, certainly not a EcoSport or Escape...

But Porsche wasn’t so stupid as to name their SUV after one of their most beloved and iconic vehicles when it shares basically a name and nothing else.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
But Porsche wasn’t so stupid as to name their SUV after one of their most beloved and iconic vehicles when it shares basically a name and nothing else.

Well, you could say the same about the Mustang II

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
But Porsche wasn’t so stupid as to name their SUV after one of their most beloved and iconic vehicles when it shares basically a name and nothing else.

And, the Porsche Cayenne GTS with a 4L V-8 in it is almost as fun to drive as the damn 911 turbo. They hit it out of the park.


FWIW… Before the Cayenne was released I saw five Porsche SUVs in a line on I5 in Colorado Springs with Georgia peach plates on. The badging was all black and hard to read, but I thought what a terrible move. Until I watched the development of the Cayenne coming from Paris-Dakar. And then I actually drove one and out of all the SUVs available on the market is the only one that drives most like a car.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:
Well it’s not like a mustang is really a sports car…


(Mic drop)

Damn ...you went there

I would same the new ones are VERY close to a real sports car

Personally I think developing the EV technology is great...I would love a VW GTI hybrid with 400WHP that would get 75mpg...with a 6sp

The part that annoys me is the self righteousness of some people ....not pointing the finger at anyone here ....the amount of carbon it takes to make and power a current EV is very similar if not more than a ICE car...unless you are powering it completely from renewable energy resources....which is totally possible for a very small percentage of the people who actually own EVs

Nothing against the technology...hell the flagship Tesla even looks good...it's some (most) of the people and .gov pushing it down our throat.

When they make a fun (see mention of a VW GTI hybrid or an M3 hybrid) EV and maybe they do now...that can do 600-800 miles a day without sitting at a charging station for an hour every 300 miles...especially when trying to find a charging station in some places (like where I am right now) is all but impossible...I will try one

And don't get me wrong about the subsidies ...., .gov needs to keep their hands out of my pocket....for anything

My wife and I have an ongoing debate about this and she believes that without .gov $$ the technology would not be developed....I disagree, the government developed the internet but commercial use made it what it is today..

I guess to put it simply the hypocrisy annoys me but that is not the technologies fault.

Oh and the EV Mustang is an abomination and whomever is responsible for bringing it into the world needs to staked down in a pit of camel spiders...