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| Savor the limelight |
One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is the advantages of EVs and PHEVs over ICEs for short trips. The oil in my truck hits 195 right about the time I get to my son's school 6 miles away. The transmission reaches the same when I get back home. It's a long boring discussion the effects this has on the DPF and regen cycles, but it isn't pretty. With an EV, there's no waiting for the oil to warm up before you can put the hammer down for fear of blowing up your turbocharger. There no waiting at idle either to allow the turbocharger to cool down for fear of cooking your oil and blowing up your turbocharger. A plugin hybrid has the advantage of being able to use the cheapest energy source for a good portion of many peoples' needs. My 12 mile example would be all on electricty. The next 8 miles of the 10 to take my other two kids to school in the opposite direction would be electric as well. Then, I could plug it in and be ready for the same trips picking them up in the afternoon. The PHEVs come in sizes that would allow the whole crew to go to church or visit grandma and grandpa, both locations only 7 miles from home. EVs don't come in those sizes yet. | |||
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| No, not like Bill Clinton  |
Not if the idgit commies in DC have their way | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
So true. And not lost on someone who bought a new 2004 VW Golf TDi all the while patting himself on the back for making such a wise financial decision only to watch diesel prices overtake gasoline prices enough to wipe out any fuel economy or financial advantages calculated. Stupid government! Ruined my perfectly reasoned plan. | |||
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Member |
I agree with what you're saying, but I think your math is overly optimistic. Many people are driving trucks and SUVs, so I believe the average for the country is below 25mpg. My wife seems to get around 16 in her minivan. I get around 14 in my Tahoe. Therefore, if I drive 15,000 a year, I'm paying $525 in combined fuel taxes, plus $100 to register it. Many states have way higher taxes than $25/gal. If you live in CA, WA, PA, or even OH, you are paying a bit more than $.50/gal in taxes. If you drive a diesel, you are paying more still (although, hopefully, offset by higher MPG). My point is that in most jurisdictions, the ICE vehicles are bearing a disproportionate share of the road taxes. If you deduct the up-front rebates that EVs get from their road taxes/extra registration fees paid, then EV owners really don't pay any road taxes at all. This free ride won't continue indefinitely. As you point out, the government will find a way. They won't just decide to stop funding bus stops, light rail, and equestrian trails. All that being said, I'm going to install a sub-panel in my garage to support EV charging. I love the idea of an EV as a city car. I will seriously consider something like an EV or hybrid Rav4 for my wife's next car, and if I can pay less taxes, at least for now, then I'm all for it. Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Mensch |
I can't have a manual transmission with an EV, so...  ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Yidn, shreibt un fershreibt" "The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind." -Bomber Harris | |||
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| Saluki |
I need one reliable vehicle. It needs to be able to tow, haul, and have over 500 mile per day range. My bankroll just isn’t fat enough currently to justify a second vehicle simply to placate the green movement. Best alternative I see on the horizon is a plug-in hybrid. ----------The weather is here I wish you were beautiful---------- | |||
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I Deal In Lead |
The infrastructure of this country couldn't support a large number of EVs now or for the forseeable future. Maybe in 20 years or so but not at this point. | |||
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| Member |
All the numbers I used are directly from .gov publication. I rounded them up for ease of math ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Live today as if it may be your last and learn today as if you will live forever | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast  |
Personally I’m hopeful that two strokes can make a comeback. I believe the technology exists to expand their superior power to weight/displacement advantage even further over the 4 stroke garbage. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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| Member |
“20% of US energy is renewable”. Well yes and no. Like I said earlier, the 7-9% of that number attributed to hydroelectric will decrease over time as a percentage. Why? Because nobody is going to create any new hydroelectric inputs without some new technology that nobody is talking about yet. So at best hydro will shrink overall as consumption increases. That leaves solar and wind combining for about 8-10% total. Why even talk nuclear when it is nearly impossible to get one built in the US. Nuclear is CLEARLY the answer to many of the issues we are talking about but the same idjits who love EV, the planet, and Greta absolutely HATE nuclear. Solve that and you solve a lot of problems. Nuclear power could power every grid in America and we could only use fossil fuels for transportation, military, lubricants, plastics, etc and “save” the planet. If solar cells on rooftops became cheap it would go a long way as well but that doesn’t seem to the trend either. Plug in hybrids make more sense. So does clean diesel. Why not make a diesel hybrid? Because that’s not what the ruling elites want us to drive. Even if it makes sense. That’s the hate that EV generates. Rampant disassociation with reality and common sense. | |||
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| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
Nope, they can't meet emissions regs. Same goes for wankels. Any engine that burns its lubricating oil by design is no longer viable. The exception is for the military because they don't have to follow emissions regs and need simple reliable engines that can burn any useable fuel. Detroit Diesel 2-strokers are perfect for this. | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast |
Unless some kind of renewable fuel arrives on the scene and technology helps improve two stroke emissions. I believe the two stroke engine’s development might have been cut short prematurely. As far as investing in new renewable fuels there are those with VERY deep pockets who are not convinced the future will be 100% electric. I’m rooting for them to succeed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Haha, exactly. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Member |
IN MY HOUSE, we're paying a shit ton more road tax than any EV owner is paying extra to register their car. Looking up and down my street, nearly every house has a truck or suv in the driveway, so they're paying a shit ton more fuel tax than any EV owner. I don't know the methodology that the government used to come up with that average, but I know that everybody on my street pays more to maintain the roads, with the exception of the my one neighbor who has an EV. That is my point. I already stated I agreed with you. What is the point about getting into the weeds about the national average MPG? Demand not that events should happen as you wish; but wish them to happen as they do happen, and you will go on well. -Epictetus | |||
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Member |
That's not really much of an answer as there are tens of thousands of petrol based vehicles running around with north of 300-400k miles on them, and they pose far less issue when it comes to recycling. The original comment poses a very interesting question that I do not think we can fully answer just yet. But one thing is crystal clear....government wants and will do anything to force EV's on the consumer regardless whether they want or can afford them, and without hardly any consideration of the infrastructure required to support them. That encapsulates my biggest beef on the EV issue....retards trying mightily to manipulate the market with 'our' money and our kid's futures. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Member |
Just a small correction for the sake of accuracy.  ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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| Lead slingin' Parrot Head  |
I'm curious, since many of us participating on a topic posted in a discussion forum are apparently"FUD"s in your eyes, which of the arguments presented here questioning EV adoption are "the same worn out" ones? Which ones aren't valid? All I've read so far are mostly reasonable concerns (along w/ valid reasons to adopt EVs), with a few intelligent questions posed, followed up by factually based answers. Which of the arguments are you getting a laugh at? | |||
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Ammoholic |
First, personally I've only once owned a vehicle over 100k mi, that includes half dozen+ 20 year+ vehicles, so I don't care what happened to them. Second that is why I'm investing in EV infrastructure, Lithium ion recycling companies, lucid motors, as well as battery producers. I believe the cars are here to stay and we need a way to charge them and recycle them. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Member |
Don't expect a answer. His thread title already categorized those who don't agree with his opinion on EV's as haters. Then in the body of the message he uses FUD's and anything that may be presented in his created thread as worn out arguments. He then attempts to inoculate himself by listing all the gas powered equipment he owns. And then further detaches himself by saying not to expect him to join the discussion as he only wants to return to laugh at the responses. All sorts of shade and run in one post. Not bad. Actually he's just pissed off because there were opposing views posted in the other EV threads. "Fixed fortifications are monuments to mans stupidity" - George S. Patton | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
Pretty much correct.  | |||
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