quote:

Originally posted by 46and2:

Do tell, round down to the nearest thousand bucks if you like, at all levels (state, federal, local, the whole shebang.)

That money didn't just appear out of the Ether, it's from other people's money.

For a superfluous toy that you like, no more necessary than that jetski.

You're not saving, you're just shifting the burden to others, at least in part.

You and pretty much every other solar and EV person currently in the scene, playing with toys and "reducing your bills" by letting others help pay for them, justifying it in all manner of ways.

That's not a matter of opinion. It's merely a matter of degree and audacity.

Barely different than taking unnecessary PPP loans. People playing games. Very D.C. logic, very antithetical to all things conservatism, too, especially fiscally. "Free Money", like Welfare for those who definitely don't need it.

Some of the advocates sound especially like politicians/senators/etc. Very Pelosi-esque.

Wow, see this is what I was referring to. On trial. I received no rebates, incentives or anything else. You should take that up with NRG and Nissan. Those companies got subsidies or something, not me. I leased my car before I bought it from them. Panels I was presented with a solid lease offer and took it. This is nothing more than whining that someone got something you did not. I know plenty of folks locally that take AG tax credits yet they aren’t running a farm, dairy, etc. I’m not lighting them up and comparing them to that bitch Pelosi. I’m not attacking the various companies that end up a net zero tax rate to the feds. Nor people taking child tax credits on their tax returns. You decided to have children, so you should own that, not got a federal kick back for having more and more of them. Last time I checked, the more you have, the more tax credits you get. I don’t have kids, so that’s someone getting something I’m not, but I’m not going to whine about it, only stating it here as facts, because it is. Someone pointing the finger at something they don’t get is a bit hypocritical unless they are willing to stand trial also and have their life examined three ways to Sunday by pundits on the internet.

If you want to talk free $ cool. Let’s remove all tax incentives, subsidies, etc, I’m game. All of it. No more tax credits for having kids. Corporations, no more using lobbyists and lawyers to get you out of the tax payments. Do away with all of it. One swift stroke, goodbye. I’ve paid taxes on my house for 16 years now and I don’t have kids in the public school system. That’s longer than myself in public school which lasted 13 years. I’ve paid that already. Let’s let those with children, in my tax district pay that money instead of me. I’m not using the public school system and have paid my own already for my time in the public school system. The point is, it’s a never ending rabbit hole. You cannot point the finger at solar panels while turning a blind eye to the rest of it. Hate the system all you want, despise it, go off on it, punch a wall. I didn’t create this system, and I don’t break laws sans for speeding out in the country. Also not very interested in being put on the stand and attacked and ridiculed by fellow people who I share a great deal of opinions and values with, whom I also vote with.

Like I mentioned prior, pointless discussion, at least on here. What is the point? Bitching and whining? Members mention how they’re doing it, how it’s working out for them, etc then here it comes, just as sure as that clock hitting 12 twice a day. No point in discussion. Your mind will not be changed one iota. it will only involved ridicule. Don’t like the system? I remember my accountant, when I was running my S corp, telling me how I should buy a Suburban. How I could write the entire thing off. Not half, not one quarter, but the whole thing. How gross vehicle weight determined write offs. If the vehicle was a certain weight and size, it was 100% write off and he advised me to do it. I declined as I had no use for one. That was 2005/2006, and I just don’t remember that fact being so heavily debated, nor angering people. Back then that was a $50,000 vehicle not a $2500 federal tax incentive. I could continue about various other things regarding this same subject but there is little point in doing so.

Vote, write letters to your congressman. I’m out. Pointless discussion.

Getting incensed at the notion that some people are "unfairly" benefiting from EV tax credits on the backs of other tax paying Americans might be misguided.

The typical EV owner continues to be male, aged 40-55 years old, with an annual household income of more than $100,000. Chances are the typical EV owner will, in his or her lifetime, pay more than his or her "fair share" of taxes.

Obviously, we're just talking about averages, and the numbers will continue to change as EVs come down in price, but if we're just going by blanket statements, chances are the typical EV owner can just turn around and play the trump card that the only unfair thing about taxes is that he or she pays, as a straight dollar figure, more in taxes than a bunch of other people, period.

As a former CPA, I wouldn't knock anybody personally for taking advantage of whatever tax credits, deductions, advantaged savings plans, etc. they have available to them. But, I would ask that those numbers be included in the calculations of cost. Again, numbers, I can't help it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
I'll give it a go.

I hate that they don't make noise.

I hate the styling, they look like something an Android would have a wet dream over.

The new Ford F-150 Lighting looks just like any other F-150

The Rimac looks pretty much like any other supercar...it also makes supercar noises

You can pretty much tell a Porsche or Audi EV at a glance due to the family resemblance

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
As a former CPA, I wouldn't knock anybody personally for taking advantage of whatever tax credits, deductions, advantaged savings plans, etc. they have available to them.

Nor would I. My frustration is helping fund other people that make more than me when we could simply wait a few years and capitalism would produce a better and cheaper product than one spurred by 'free' government dollars. It's made even worse when I hear people rub my face in it.

As for Aeteocles comment above yours. That's excellent you've worked hard and make a lot of money, that's what America is about, those that work hard, are smart, or just lucky get to reap the benefits of their efforts. My opinion on the matter is I rather have the discretion to determine when my hard earned dollars go. I literally have bled and sweated my way to where I'm at, where my dollars are spent is a matter of great concern to me. If I could put 2% more of my salary into my 401k instead of government coffers, I'm quite sure I'd put it to better use than government subsidies.

We paid $50,000+ in taxes last year, and will pay even more this year. That's cool if you paid more in taxes than we did, that's how a progressive tax system work. I still content that money has value to me, and I prefer it not be wasted.

I thought EV's are required to reproduce engine noise so the blind will hear them if trying to cross a street? Literally a sound loop player and speaker.

The Electric F150 sold out its reservations and it does look just like a regular one except the grille is solid. I suspect theres still air flow for the ac condensor and it's own fan. Local news had on the PR release with video and the last line spoken was "230 mile range."

At 70mph we're going to see 3.2 hours of cruising before you stop to recharge, a high amp connection might only take an hour, the typical one is 8 hours. It's about 850 miles to the Gulf Coast where I live, at 230 miles you might make 560 each day, it's going to take two days to get there minimum, where a gas car can do it straight thru one fillup 14 hours.

You would be better off with a hybrid.

It's a large luxury golf cart as far as real touring goes. But hey, people bought those funny looking Austria tupperware guns when we all know a real gun has a Browning design and is carried cocked and locked.

I'll just keep the '05, it will look cute with Christmas plaid wrap on the doors and a plastic tree in the bed in 2030. I might even sell t shirts.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Tirod,

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:

I thought EV's are required to reproduce engine noise so the deaf will hear them

I'm not sure how that works.

↑↑

A Christmas miracle?

quote:

The typical EV owner continues to be male, aged 40-55 years old, with an annual household income of more than $100,000. Chances are the typical EV owner will, in his or her lifetime, pay more than his or her "fair share" of taxes.

OTOH, people that make more than $100K a year and want to buy $50 to $300K cars don't financially need incentives to afford these luxury items.
If you make the scratch, then, write the check and pay the full price, incentives from taxpayer funds never should happen, now if Tesla/Ford or GM want to give up private company funds to buyers, so be it...

But it's always worked that way with tech, the high end products get the tech first, it costs more, and once it's proven, it' pushed out to the masses as economies of scale are met.

Buy an EV or not, solar or not, but governments need to stop using taxpayer money to give to people who can clearly afford the full price to begin with.

The guy that can afford a Tesla Plaid S doesn't need the tax break to afford a Tesla Plaid S, and doubtful that it's the reason they buy it..

Don’t think Tesla gets a break anymore

And b) Anyone buying a plaid deserves as much back as he can get.

(Assuming he can actually afford a car at that price, not stretching for it, odds are he’s paying ~60%+ a year in taxes)

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
I'll give it a go.

I hate that they don't make noise.

I hate the styling, they look like something an Android would have a wet dream over.

The new Ford F-150 Lighting looks just like any other F-150

The Rimac looks pretty much like any other supercar...it also makes supercar noises

One of those Saturday morning car mod shows on Motor Trend TV had a Tesla on it. One of the mods was adding exhaust note external speakers to the rear.

If someone paying $100,000 (I just picked a nice round number) in federal income taxes a year gets $7500 off of his taxes for doing what the gov't wants him to do, is he really shifting the burden down to other people?

Said person is STILL paying 5x the average national tax burden, and 9x the per-capita tax burden. He owes us nothing, certainly not any more of his tax dollars. The guy is getting bent over, we could spare him a bit of lube.

quote:

Originally posted by Aeteocles:
If someone paying $100,000 (I just picked a nice round number) in federal income taxes a year gets $7500 off of his taxes for doing what the gov't wants him to do, is he really shifting the burden down to other people?

Said person is STILL paying 5x the average national tax burden, and 9x the per-capita tax burden. He owes us nothing, certainly not any more of his tax dollars. The guy is getting bent over, we could spare him a bit of lube.

Crazy idea here, bear with me here. Let's say that guy pays $94,000 in taxes instead. There is no tax credit for their EV, but they get $500 extra every month to pay towards their EV. Maybe they already have an EV and they don't want a second, $500 a month will buy a pretty sweat motorcycle. Then they still get the benefit of lower taxes and didn't even need to buy an EV.

I know the idea of being able to determine how you will spend your money instead of the .gov deciding it for you sounds crazy to some, but it's actually been done in the past.

quote:

The new Ford F-150 Lighting looks just like any other F-150

The Rimac looks pretty much like any other supercar...it also makes supercar noises

You can pretty much tell a Porsche or Audi EV at a glance due to the family resemblance

The F-150 is cool as hell and I've owned 6 F-150s. The Rimac is cool too, but not my cup of tea.

I think if you are only concerned with your environmental impact, a used car from the 90s that weighs considerably less than a car from 2021 and is a "sunk cost" environmentally would be a better choice, no?

Something like a 1997 or so Toyota Corolla that gets 30 MPG?

I have a Honda ACTY that I use for all of my local errands and a 2001 Dodge Cummins for long trips and hauling. Both are old, reliable, and have a much lower carbon footprint than buying a new EV every few years.

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
The Rimac is cool too, but not my cup of tea.

How do you feel about the style of the Lucid Air Dream Edition?

The R model comes with 670-966 HP and a range in excess of 500 miles, while the P model come with 804-1111 HP but range falls to 470 miles

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmepiphany:

quote:

Originally posted by Rev. A. J. Forsyth:
The Rimac is cool too, but not my cup of tea.

How do you feel about the style of the Lucid Air Dream Edition?

The R model comes with 670-966 HP and a range in excess of 500 miles, while the P model come with 804-1111 HP but range falls to 470 miles

Just remember, those mileage estimates haven't been verified by independent reviews yet, so you might want to take them with a grain of salt at this point.

And as to looks of the Lucid, face it, damn near everything manufactured today looks really similar (i.e. boring). Aerodynamics and efficiency have become the goals with aesthetics a distant third or fourth. Only super or hyper cars are truly unique at this point.

quote:

Originally posted by V-Tail:

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:

I thought EV's are required to reproduce engine noise so the deaf will hear them

I'm not sure how that works.

So, people DO read posts.

Yeah lol that was pretty bad. Corrected.

Style is subordinate to airflow in looks but the Prius was found to be absent an underchin panel which would actually improve mileage in independent testing.

It got value engineered off the final product apparently.

When the colleges were all into solar car contests the one thing you could count on was they pretty much looked all the same. When you apply the emerging understanding of how things work and improve, most of those new designs appear similar.

Case in point, when Ferrari brought out the GTO and was racing it, Team Shelby needed to get the Cobra aerodynamics upgraded for long tracks, and the Daytona was pencilled on a restaurant napkin by the guy who worked on the 63 Vette. Park a Daytona next to a GTO (not the Pontiac) and a lot of folks had no clue in the 70's. New Ferrari? they would ask. Low grille long hood, fastback with a cut off trunk.

Its what is under the hood that counts. I suppose when the overhead power lines are all strung up everywhere they might work, but I'm not too keen on driving a mini trolley on a closed circuit with a wand sparking off. Overhead wires or storage batteries its still a lot of new infrastructure when we have petroleum completely funded and working.

quote:

How do you feel about the style of the Lucid Air Dream Edition?

The R model comes with 670-966 HP and a range in excess of 500 miles, while the P model come with 804-1111 HP but range falls to 470 miles

For me, styling hit its zenith sometime in the late 2000's. Lets say 2008. The 2005 Ford GT or the 2004 Carrera GT would be my supercars of choice. They come in a manual, make all the right noises, and don't look like bad science fiction.