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Member |
Nah. I paid $0 to acquire and install 35 solar panels. I leased them. $90 a month. The first time I had to pay anything was +30 days after installed, the $90 first payment. Arcwelder on here showed me the way with this, and I’m very grateful as it has saved me a damn small fortune over the years. Maintenance? 3-4 times a year I stand on my deck in the back of the house with a garden hose in my hand with a sprayer attached to the hose. I hit all 35 of them with water. Takes about 5 minutes each time. It’s been 8 years and that’s the only maintenance I have ever had to do. I even had a hail storm come through and beat up the roof. Roofer comes out and tells me 1/2 of the roof needs to be replaced (shingles). Shingles under the panels are mint new, and the panels sustained no damage. So the solar panels are stronger than my roof, and take up half of my roof. So 1/2 of my roof is super strong and more hail resistant. And that’s also 1/2 the roof that isn’t getting hit by the sun and raising attic temps so there is some HVAC efficiency gained. And that takes some pressure off the HVAC system which will mean longer life before replacement. And say in 3 or 5 years, some maintenance item does actually come up. I call the company I lease them through. That’s their job, not mine. I don’t pay for that. No cost in down time either. My car charges when I’m asleep, when I’m mowing my grass, or watching a movie or something. It’s not my only vehicle. It’s my daily driver. Even if I was 100% ICE/gas, I’d still have multiple vehicles. I like having a dedicated daily driver that is super efficient, whether gas, diesel, or electric. I don’t want to drive my truck daily as it’s not a sipper on energy/fuel. And since trucks cost so much well it will last me 20 years or more because it’s not my daily driver. So by my own financials, having 2 costs me less long term than a single vehicle that would have to be replaced much sooner. This strategy also provides me some redundancy in that if I have a vehicle down, I still have another to drive while said vehicle is being repaired. When the EV hits say 100k or more on the ODO. I hope they have an even better battery replacement pack for it that gives me more range. 7-10k for a new battery pack versus 30k, 40k, 50k, for a new car sounds much better to me. That’s way less money. Instead of new car, I throw in a new battery pack for 5 figures savings. As far as longevity. There are many panels put up in the 70’s that are still running, and at 80% or more efficiency. That’s over 40 years now. It’s been almost 8 years for me and I’ve seen no reduction in performance. In fact, our kWh rates have been going up and up in Texas. So many leftist folks have invaded our borders who all require water and kWh, that our low rates are gone and gone for good. So as the kWh rates go up, I save even more as that’s all I did with my panels, flatline my kWh rates for 20 years. And these 8 years have taught me a lot. Much of what I have read and heard is false. I have plans to move out of state, to get away from leftists, and the bullshit going on in my state. It’s turning more blue by year. So I am going to buy rural property in another state, and I’m going to be off grid. Panels, windmill, and battery storage with a generator for weather events. If I even connect it to the grid it will be to make money off the grid by selling power. I will only buy property that I can put a well in on. So my utility cost will be limited to fiber/coax to the property, and the once every few years septic clean out. Electric has its purpose. It’s not a holy grail. But it can be used for financial reasons. I cannot wait to move rural and get to tell utilities to go fuck themselves. I’m living for that day. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Member |
That’s pretty silly. If we took it so personally as you said, we’d either be 1) not participating in the discussion or 2) cussing people out. Neither of which is occurring. If anything it sounds personal to you. Nobody cares, x, and y. Apparently you do, or you would not even discuss it. Nobody is preaching to you, or telling you what to do with your life. We are discussing what we are doing with X, nothing more. FWIW, I don’t like the force feeding they are doing either. EV’s are not some holy grail that will save the Earth, not by a long shot. EV’s do work for certain people for certain things. What is driving EV’s, as I’m a gear head, and read a lot, is Europe. The US, the raisin, neither of which have anything on this compared to Europe. Europe is on a got damn rampage, changing emission laws on like a yearly basis at this point. And vehicles are all global products now. Europe and other countries are pushing massive, aggressive emission requirements and automobile mfr’s are pivoting into EV production as they want to keep making money. I’m looking for my final 6MT performance/sports car right now, that is affordable. I know the new platforms hitting, will be the last of their kind. They are going to make gas cars for a while yet, but they will be fewer every year and manuals are going the way of the dodo. Manuals just do not integrate as well with ADAS as any form of automatic does. And like EV’s, the automobile manufacturers are hell bent on putting driving nannies on everything. What I’m seeing is one last round of performance/sports car manuals that will be affordable. A 5 or so year run on them at the stealers, and when that is up, the jig is up. Many automobile mfr’s are already on their last development of their ICE. All of them are pivoting to electric power trains. What, I, and some others are stating is that we did not do x or y, because of political this or that, pressure, or any such things. I made my decisions for $, cold hard $, and that’s it. Any political nonsense had zero to do with any of it. I paid $19,700 all in for my electric car. I’m not bombing around in 50k Tesla yelling at people saying they are doing it wrong or “I’m saving so much on fuel!” When they bought a 50k automobile. In my work sector, salaries have not changed in 20 years. Meanwhile, gas cost is up, food, utilities, name it. So I made these decisions to offset. If it’s like the vaccine, as you said, and you have no feeling on whether individuals get it or not, then solar panels, electric vehicles, etc are no different either. Whether we get a vaccine, whether we acquire panels, an EV, that’s a decision we made and we aren’t the ones pushing this agenda “down your throat”. It’s simply a choice we made for whatever reasons. And that’s it. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
I sleep at night.  There's more to what you have going on than $90 a month. I priced the Tesla panels, supposedly the least expensive, and it came to $30,000 just to cover my current needs without charging a car. They didn't have an option for a larger system and this was using net metering. | |||
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| The Ice Cream Man |
NG makes a great deal of sense to use, instead of gasoline - about all its good for is burning and we produce staggering amounts of it. | |||
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| Member |
What is confusing about it? About to go to bed, oh yeah, forgot, need to walk out to garage, and insert charging handle into car /done. It’s fully charged for the morning. And I charge it 1-2 times per week so most of the week this isn’t happening. It’s not a nightly occurrence. This time a year, that is indeed all it is, $92.01, to be exact, a month. I’m getting negative electric bills right now in the winter. Credits put on my account that will be used once temps rise and I have to use the AC. I’ll get monthly electric bills again in say April, but all in it’s way cheaper than before I had panels. 4 figures per year cheaper, then gas savings is 4 figures per year cheaper also. The accusation you made is why there is little point in discussing this on this forum and a point the OP made. I’m going to keep saving money as I have done over the last 8 years and everyone else is free to do what they like. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive.  |
The heck do you think those taxpayer funded rebates and credits are? How many thousands of dollars did those equate to, in both your roof solar and EV, eh? Do tell, round down to the nearest thousand bucks if you like, at all levels (state, federal, local, the whole shebang.) That money didn't just appear out of the Ether, it's from other people's money. For a superfluous toy that you like, no more necessary than that jetski. You're not saving, you're just shifting the burden to others, at least in part. You and pretty much every other solar and EV person currently in the scene, playing with toys and "reducing your bills" by letting others help pay for them, justifying it in all manner of ways. That's not a matter of opinion. It's merely a matter of degree and audacity. Barely different than taking unnecessary PPP loans. People playing games. Very D.C. logic, very antithetical to all things conservatism, too, especially fiscally. "Free Money", like Welfare for those who definitely don't need it. Some of the advocates sound especially like politicians/senators/etc. Very Pelosi-esque. | |||
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Ammoholic |
You are on a roll recently with the attacks... Can't argue with you on this one though, I'm not happy to be subsidizing his EV, solar, and saved electricity costs. I think it's time we end subsidies for people who make more money than me. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Oh stewardess, I speak jive. |
I am working to further adjust my tone and language, fwiw. Not always successful, obviously. My points are fine, I sleep well. My temper and delivery needs continued work.  | |||
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| Official forum SIG Pro enthusiast  |
What I really want to see is a truthful breakdown of renewable vs non renewable resources as they pertain to powering an electrical grid. How much of an impact does their power provided ultimately have on pollution? How sustainable is it? I would hope we could all agree progress in regards to the most efficient and least polluting power plants should at the very least be encouraged and discussed openly and honestly. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The price of liberty and even of common humanity is eternal vigilance | |||
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| Ammoholic |
I think we all know what we get with you. Rather have you here than not. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Savor the limelight |
Thank you for proving my point or "accusation" as you called it. I'm not the one who started with the claim that my EV is charged by solar and doesn't cost me anything. Later, you admit you pay a monthly fee for leasing the solar panels. Now you are admitting your car is not charged from your solar panels and 100% of your power is not provided by your panels. In other words, you are paying for some of the electricity being used to charge your EV. The reason there is no point in these EV/solar threads is because some of the EV/solar guys get all cute with postive claims while freely ignoring any negatives; then can't/won't answer basic questions; get all defensive when asked and start the extremist, outlier, outright liar name calling (I've been called all three). The cute BS does nothing to support a postive view of solar/EVs to those of us interested in actual experiences of those for whom it is working. I'm going to say thank you to Aeteocles for being a fantastic example of how you can represent solar/EVs in an honest and forthright manner. Although he did call me a liar, at least he was polite about then answered every question I've ever asked completely.  I don't hate solar, I don't hate EVs. Never have. I've run the numbers many times and come to the same conclusion, they don't work for me, yet. At least not for electricity. I did use solar heat for my pool until a hurricane stole my panels. I didn't replace them because they would be on the street facing part of my roof and ruin the look of my nice new metal roof. Back to the numbers, I like numbers, I like to understand why the numbers work for some people, but not for me. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
Same here, I love looking at things like this. When I was working for my electrical license, my final project was an almost 100% off grid house. I left PoCo hook up for 'just in case' but the house would function under normal use without grid power. This was many years ago, but the end conclusions from it was that there was no BEP because of the replacement cost @25 years and maintenance of some components of the house. Nowadays with lowered costs and me and you paying for others to have EV/PV the BEP is much lower. You should look into it again now. If you are going to pay for it anyways (tax man), you might as well do it, if the calcs make sense now. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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| Member |
Prefontaine is making my point for me. EV guys take it as a personal affront when you point out the bullshit they spew. Point it out and apparently I’m now the one taking it personally. Laughable. Drive your EV, pay for your panels, ride a bike, I don’t care. What I do care about is keeping the discussion honest. Making widespread public policy that will absolutely affect my life in the future while building the EV case on bs is my issue. So drive your EV but don’t make up a nebulous argument that isn’t factual to back it up. You individually is not an issue. Unfortunately the entire country is making up unsubstantiated arguments to justify EV and kill ICE. It’s all built on faulty premise and a lot of outright lies. That’s a problem. | |||
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Member |
Just wait until the next major power grid outage. The last thing I want is an EV and I use to be in charge of a large scale energy program setting and implementing policy. This is just one of those stupid programs that make people "feel good". It makes sense to actually do in very few areas. ---------- “Nobody can ever take your integrity away from you. Only you can give up your integrity.” H. Norman Schwarzkopf | |||
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| Member |
Eh..nice to have…meh- the rock depends on everyone getting there. Read How to Avoid a Climate Disaster. Change is hard - large scale change is harder… hopefully not impossible | |||
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quarter MOA visionary |
EV will take hold when the performance AND price is better than petroleum based. We DO NOT need the Government getting involved. Normal business supply/demand will prevail at some point. It makes an opportunity for some Company to come along and figure it out. THAT company will make the real money and it provides an incentive for companies to try. Some will fail. It is a normal and healthy evolution of technology. IF the Government gets involved it will only screw things up. Of course the competition also could make new petroleum based innovations too. WIN WIN is better than WIN/LOSE. .02 | |||
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Fire begets Fire |
Just gonna leave this right here… Hydrogen "Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty." ~Robert A. Heinlein | |||
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| Member |
No, you are extrapolating information from a few words on the internet then making gross assumptions. In reality most of the time I charge the car, it’s charged in the daytime. Usually when I mow, the garage door is open, etc. Rarely do I charge it at night. But when I do, it’s before bed, plug it in, and go to bed. I produce power all day and put it onto the grid. I’m not going to get political or up in arms about using power off the grid at night. I put so much power on the grid, that charging my vehicle doesn’t cost me anything. The point about “charging before bed” was more about it NOT being an inconvenience, whatsoever. People with zero experience talk all the time about how inconvenient it is, to have to charge. “I don’t have time” and such when it’s the opposite. I charge the car when I’m doing other things so the last thing it is, is inconvenient. Actually it is super convenient. I fuel up at home and don’t have to waste time at a pump. I like Tier 1 fuel for my gas vehicles and that isn’t close. And the cost efficient Tier 1 gas I like is at Costco and more often times than not, it’s a long line. I stated this time of year, but kWh bill is negative. If it’s negative, then does it matter when I’m charging the car? Or is that something for someone to attack for no reason? This is the reason you get defensive answers and what did you call it? Cute responses? People post how it’s working for them, the others call on them like they are on a witness stand, and we are on trial. You need to own that and accept that fact. I stated I used grid power once the heat and humidity comes in season. I’m quite sure that was stated since we’re on trial counselor. <——- Cute response for you. All in however, panels are super efficient and paying less than I would without them, substantially so. Nobody is putting a gun to your head telling you must get solar, you must buy an EV. If that was the case gas vehicles wouldn’t be sold and they are, and for a long time to come. Solar panels won’t work for everyone either. Many factors are at play. Geographic region you live in. How much sun do you get? Azimuth. Which direction does your roof face? Pitch of the roof. I had the eval/study done and my house faced the perfect direction, pitch of the roof, perfect, square footage to place them, IE I had the perfect roof for the application. In nearly 8 years of running both, my gasoline costs were slashed, and I still use and enjoy using gasoline. My kWh costs, slashed, even using an EV which I only need to charge 2 times a week. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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Member |
I'll give it a go. I hate that they don't make noise. I hate the styling, they look like something an Android would have a wet dream over. I hate the overall simplified and pompous attitudes of many owners that I have met. Yessir, you're certainly saving the world with your coal powered car. Seen what a lithium mine looks like? It is extremely dirty business and makes W.Va mountaintop removal look good in comparison. They also seem to forget that in the case of a Tesla Model 3, a new battery pack is 20k, Tesla won't sell it to you, and it will need to be replaced at some point. Oh, and paying for features and equipment that can be turned off at anytime is ridiculous. Toyota key fob remote start, anyone? I understand that new technology has a teething period, it may well be the wave of the future, but Jesus are people ridiculously pompous when it comes to electric cars. A Tesla would serve me well for my around town driving, but there is no way in hell I would buy it. | |||
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| Ammoholic |
You have to be joking right? Please tell me you are joking. I paid for part of your solar and EV. The original EV tax credit was $1,500,000,000.00 per car manufacture times how many manufactures? After the first $1.5B then there was as 50% credit for a period, then a 25% credit. Then there is the $7,500,000,000.00 included in the recently passed infrastructure bill. If the BBB plan passes then there's even more tax credits taken from me to subsidize your lower electric and gasoline bills. If I don't pay my taxes a man with a GUN comes to my house and arrests me a takes away my freedom. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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