I am a few pages behind in responding to this, but wanted to add it anyway because I feel it is relevant.

I am a physician in an extremely busy practice. I see clients for 30 minute slots, two per hour, all day. We have a "policy" where if the client is more than 10 minutes late for their appointment they will not be allowed to check in and will be asked to reschedule. But very often the front desk staff want to avoid conflict and will check in a person more than 10 minutes late. While this is now an inconvenience for me, I will still always see these people.

I think the point I am trying to reach is that, once the person is "checked in" whether it be for a flight or an appointment, they should receive service.

Sure, I will let them know we have a limited timetable now and that another appointment will be needed to ensure we are thorough, but I will still serve them at that time. I really think this scenario with United rings true here.

Also, I know everyone hates when the doctor is late for their appointment. This is one area I am especially cognizant of and it is incredibly rare that any of my clients enter my office more than 3 minutes after their scheduled appointment time.

United should've done anything in their power to fly their staff out on another flight and left the paying customers alone. I am also currently engaged in a battle with United over a refund for a recent flight where the delay was so long I missed a wedding and thus the entire reason for the trip. The literally do not understand why I didn't want to get there a day later. They wont even give me a full refund.

On the face of it, the UA statistician should be fired.. or whoever is calculating how close you can run overbooking without a fuckup like this.

Second, where the hell were the gate agents??? Wtf? He was in his seat on the plane. That's done.

I still haven't understood why all airlines don't board starting from the back like they used to, it's pretty obvious you're full then, AND, you don't have people struggling to get past you to get at their seat, while you're fucking around trying to ram your carry on into the overhead bin.

That said, I understand there was a surprise flight crew that needed to board, but as many have said, so many other options they will have desperately wished they thought of before allowing this to ensue. Wow. I can't imagine how many times this video will be used for training purposes on what NOT TO EVER DO.

To the poster who was surprised no one was jumping at $800.00: I wonder at what value they started, and I suspect everyone seated was waiting for the number to continue to climb.

In the end, though, I would not have behaved like that passenger. What a total disaster. At least no one died.

quote:

from the video based on his tantrum.

I don't know what video you watched but I saw a guy sitting quietly in a seat that he paid for, get ripped out of it and drug down the isle. The scream when he was assaulted was justified.

The airline should have never boarded the passengers if there was a seating issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Those of you who are so opposed to overbooking, how often do you fly and how often does it affect you? How many times have you personally been denied boarding? How many times have you benefited by accepting the offer of compensation and possibly a 1st Class seat on the next flight?

How many of you are willing to pay 50% more per ticket when you do fly, if overbooking were not allowed? Would you fly as often? Would it impact your budget? Would you be as able to be as profitable in your business? Would your vacation budget support the same quality of vacation if your airfare were more?

Overbooking allows everyone to travel with much reduced fares. Involuntary bumping is not common.

There ain't no free lunch. You want more legroom, more empty seats next to you, better food on board? It all costs money. You want zero chance of being denied boarding? That costs money, too.

I've taken my share of vouchers, BUT, I fly enough to say that if you put my butt in a seat, I'm going to stay there.

Pulling people off the plane instead of handling this at the gate before boarding is quite possibly the dumbest thing I have EVER heard. It's their fault they overbooked and they should suck it up and fix it without it being at the expense of the customers. As I read this, they needed 4 seats for THEIR employees, THAT is entirely on them.

What...Like this the first time United overbooked and didn't know how to handle the situation. Amazing.

Wasn't anyone smart enough to figure a better way out of this? Nope.

Mike

I'd be buying my own plane with the settlement check they will cut.

Aside from the practice of overbooking, UAL made an assumption that room would be made for their crew needing to get to the destination, no matter what inconvenience might have to be inflicted on their customer base, rather than instituting practices that wouldn't lead to bumping and the incredible aftermath that ensued. That's a practice/policy/culture issue. Then that translates to the poor schmucks at the gate having to pull the bonehead maneuver that is in discussion. Because the fear of God has been instilled that you're now responsible for the in transit crew not getting to the next assignment, rather than taking superlative care of your paying customers(UAL/the market set the ticket prices, don't bitch about the hoi polloi trying to get cheapest and or best value). How's that working out today UAL?

We're not flying much these days and if we do it'll probabbly be American. Hopefully every other airline CEO is sending out a company wide email that says don't be stupid.....

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

Having said all that, when you're told to get off the airplane by someone on uniform, you get off the f'n airplane and sort it out later! Call your attorney if you think you have a case. But you aren't going to win against 3 trained men.

Are those security guys sworn law enforcement? Something isn't quite right.

Trained?!? He dragged him out by his fucking arms! Is that what they "trained" him to do?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Childish behavior shouldn't be rewarded no matter how we all agree overselling is the problem.

For fuck's sake. Now you're calling the guy childish because he wanted the airline to fly him where he paid to be flown.

Get your comments in. I'm locking this thread before too long. I've seen enough of people defending the indefensible.

I'm just talking about the way he handled it, not that he wasn't right about being upset or UA's policy or that it was him selected because some FA decided to take the late flight to work.

Its just the way he handled himself, that's all.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

We should all recognize that business travelers drive most of the profit for airlines. Not the discount, teaser fares. I bet the doc was full-fare ...

I seriously doubt that. Frequent flyers with a high medallion status (or whatever is equivalent to other airlines) simply aren't going to get bumped. Someone like you or me who fly weekly aren't getting dragged off of a plane. Just ain't gonna happen.

Really? Tell me more ... what if I'm not on my preferred airline?

I flew to Boston several years ago. We were delayed 2 hours leaving DFW. Bad weather kept us from landing in Boston about 10 pm that evening. We had to land in Bangor, Maine to gas up to get into Boston. The airport was closed at 10 pm. Anyway, about 10 passengers were actually headed to Bangor. The airline wasn't going to let them off and said they would still have to go to boston and catch a flight the next morning back to Bangor. After some very heated verbal discussions the passengers got to deplane without their checked baggage. It was funny to watch though.

The customer violated not one law before coercive force was applied against him, over an internal airline administrative issue. (Would probably have been cheaper in absolute terms for the airline to rent that flight crew a car, but anyway.)

To my mind, that doctor employing force in self defense would not have been unreasonable. But that's just me.

You put your hands on me, you'd better have a *very* bloody good reason.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
Once in your seat, your contract with the airline and federal law (still) apply. While people hate being denied boarding, that is what you agreed to when you bought the ticket.

Oh, yes, the fine print. Of course.

Yeah, forcibly removing a paying passenger from their seat for a "Must Ride" is OK, because of the fine print.

Oh, wait. It's not OK. It's nowhere near OK, as the gigantic shit show that UA created demonstrates. You be sure and tell the entire world about that fine print, OK? Because people are listening to that stuff right now. Hell, they barely notice the multiple videos of the guy being dragged from the plane, what with being busy reading the fine print on their ticket. Sure, that's how this works. UA is golden, no worries. Just read the fine print.

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

We should all recognize that business travelers drive most of the profit for airlines. Not the discount, teaser fares. I bet the doc was full-fare ...

I seriously doubt that. Frequent flyers with a high medallion status (or whatever is equivalent to other airlines) simply aren't going to get bumped. Someone like you or me who fly weekly aren't getting dragged off of a plane. Just ain't gonna happen.

Really? Tell me more ... what If I'm not on my preferred airline?

Why would you not be on your preferred airline? Then you're just like any other regular flyer. What's your point? As a platinum medallion with Delta, I'm simply not going to get bumped. That's just a fact.

What I find bothersome is an airline using the police to cheat customers. I've been bumped before both voluntarily and involuntary but I really would not be Ok with being removed from my seat.

Well, it appears United needs to implement some employee coaching sessions Maybe it's time to rethink that over-booking policy just a tad.

I remember flying United and/or Pan Am as a kid back in the 60's and early 70's. Even through a kid's rose-colored glasses those experiences were pleasant and the flight crews exuded class. I may even still have a wings pin stuffed away somewhere that they gave out to most of the curtain-climbers back then. It does seem that about the time "cheap flights" were pushed by People's Express and their ilk that airline service went to hell. Folks used to dress for flights in clothes suitable for being seen in public but that standard has plunged so far off a cliff that nowadays there's little difference between clothing and costumes. Consider yourself lucky if your seatmate chose to bathe before boarding. I was raised to act a certain way in public but it seems that concept has gone out of vogue in favor of petty rudeness and me-first adult tantrums.

I used to like flying commercial but somewhere in the early 2000's I decided that if it's not an emergency or work requirement my ass is driving. My mother's house is a 21 hour drive and my wife's parents is 13 hours but at least I have a degree of control in my own vehicle. Takes longer but the stress is lower and any olfactory offenses are limited to the occasional roadkill one passes.

I would much prefer higher flight prices if it meant a return to more civility and less third-world trailer trash zombie candidates clutching their emotional support wombats. I'm assured a more pleasant travel experience by hitching with carnies cross-country than being shoehorned in a plane with the People of WalMart. At least the carnies are friendly.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by SIGnified:

We should all recognize that business travelers drive most of the profit for airlines. Not the discount, teaser fares. I bet the doc was full-fare ...

I seriously doubt that. Frequent flyers with a high medallion status (or whatever is equivalent to other airlines) simply aren't going to get bumped. Someone like you or me who fly weekly aren't getting dragged off of a plane. Just ain't gonna happen.

Really? Tell me more ... what If I'm not on my preferred airline?

Why would you not be on your preferred airline? Then you're just like any other regular flyer. What's your point? As a platinum medallion with Delta, I'm simply not going to get bumped. That's just a fact.

Really, are you that obtuse? I'm tempted to not educate you since you know so damned much already apparently ...

Lot's of reasons I'm not on my preferred airline - of which the top 3 are typically: Destination, Schedule and Price (still spending someone else's $$$ - cannot always go with "preferred" vendor).

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:
United Airlines training Video

[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qvPugcb7QGE" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

The doctor didn't speak Jive. He had no idea what they were telling him.

couple things in this report:

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicag...olice-at-ohare-video

According to United's "Contract of Carriage," or set of policies: "If a flight is oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority."

Those who are the least likely to be denied boarding or de-planed due to overbooking are children traveling alone and passengers with disabilities. Other factors considered by the airline when deciding who to remove include: a "passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment."

When flights are oversold, airlines are legally required to pay up to $1,350 in compensation, depending on the level of inconvenience caused to passengers.

watch the 3rd and 4th video. See the blood coming out of his mouth.

Chicago Police said it was not involved in the incident. The officers and security personnel are with the Department of Aviation.

The Chicago Police Department, however, released a statement Monday afternoon describing the incident: around 6 p.m. Sunday, aviation police were summoned to the plane after the man became "irate" for being asked to leave the plane, police said.

Chicago police said the passenger "began yelling to voice his displeasure" and officers on the scene "attempted to carry" him off the flight "when he fell" on an armrest and hit his face.

bullshit

At one point, the man re-boarded the plane and ran towards the back, explaining that he had to get home for his patients in the morning, according to video footage and passenger accounts. But he was once again removed from the plane.


The passenger was taken to Lutheran General Hospital for his injuries, which weren't life-threatening, police said.

***************

this will become an airline training film in what NOT to do