For those who support what United did here, consider the following:

Would the United Airlines board of directors be happier today if it had cost them $5000 in incentives to free up those seats or would they rather be dealing with this today?

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Originally posted by jhe888:

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Originally posted by erj_pilot:

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Originally posted by bigwagon:
Really stupid policy to randomly select people to be bumped.

It's not a random selection. The person being bumped is the person who checked in last.

The article said the selection was random.

I feel pretty sure that the fare agreement contains your agreement to this procedure. But, it would be better (and cheaper in terms of publicity) for the airline to just keep increasing the offer to take a bump until someone accepts the cash.

I wonder if random includes first class.

I'm somewhat surprised that no one jumped at the $800 offer the get bumped.

Airline Profits to Reach Record Heights Before 2017 Descent

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a...7-descent-1481190301

I fully and completely know and understand the need for profitability of companies.

However, in my experience through many years of working in corporate positions, there is a cost to fucking over your customers. UAL seems to have forgotten that. Probably along with all their "competitors as well.

I wonder how much revenue UAL will lose because of this incident. Surely more than it would have cost to pay enough to get some customer to give up his/her seat.

As to "overbooking", I understand the desire to make sure there is an ass in every seat, but telling people they have a seat (for which they paid) and then telling them at arrival, "Sorry, but we sold more seats than we have available, so you cannot fly on this flight."

If you do this crap, then at least be prepared to pay what it takes to resolve the situation without pissing off a whole bunch of passengers, current and future.

Yeah, this is a shit sandwich for sure. UA really screwed this one up. the policy got them there, but then the studid stupid employees handled it all wrong. I feel for the guy but agree, they created the mess, they have to deal with it.

I hope they have planes vacant at the gate over this.

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Originally posted by redstone:
Yeah, this is a shit sandwich for sure. UA really screwed this one up. the policy got them there, but then the studid stupid employees handled it all wrong. I feel for the guy but agree, they created the mess, they have to deal with it.

I hope they have planes vacant at the gate over this.

Yes it may be quite sometime before this becomes necessary again.

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
Above is true. The four airline employees weren't going on vacation, they were going to man a flight out of the destination. A little pain now to not have a TON of pain later.

As for involuntary deplanements, it sucks but it also happens. If you refuse to leave my airplane for any reason I will absolutely have the po po haul your stupid ass off the plane. It is private property and it ain't yours. Yes, you bought a ticket and you will get your money back and maybe even a lot more but if the seat isn't available for you, then you have to get off. It really is that simple.

Based on previous shitty reporting (leggings girls getting kicked off, oh but they were riding on free passes that have a dress code) I don't know if United acted as poorly as they are represented here.

He wasn't removed by police until he refused to leave. Imagine owning your own business and for whatever reason you sold someone a widget and then realized you don't have a widget after all. You try to give them back their money and a bonus on top of that but they refuse to leave without a widget. "I'm not leaving until I get my widget". Eventually you call the cops because they are interfering with your legal right to run your business.

This doctor is an idiot if he let his ego get him to this point of requiring law enforcement. Maybe United could have handled it better maybe this guy is an immense dick. No way to know without being there.

Your attitude is the exact problem with airlines and flying in general today.

I traveled extensively on business for many years, much of the time making weekly trips all over the country.

I was delayed or wound up in the wrong city many times when I had to use airlines.

When I did my own flying, I never missed a commitment, not once in 25 years.

One instance that was kind of amusing -- I was teaching a UNIX course for a week in a small city in Washington. I was booked on a UAL flight home to Orlando from Sea-Tac. The commuter flight from small city to Sea-Tac was cancelled leaving enough time to drive if I could average better than 90 mph. I ran over to the FBO, showed my credentials, and rented a Bonanza. Grabbed a pilot who was just hanging around there to come with me, to return the Bonanza back home. Made the UAL flight with time to spare.

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:
They entered into a contract when they sold him the ticket, and now they are trying to re-neg. If they wanted room from the crew, perhaps they should not sell all of the seats.

This bullshit of overselling flights needs to stop. There's a simple solution to this problem.

I'm not going to defend overselling flights. That's the root cause of this problem. I will point out, though, that the contract that you and the airline enter into when you purchase a ticket also contains clauses that include you getting bumped. The contract does not guarantee you a seat. Buyer beware.

United's handling of the situation was pretty crappy.

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Originally posted by 1967Goat:


This bullshit of overselling flights needs to stop. There's a simple solution to this problem.

It's not going to stop. Far from it. It'll be ramped up into overdrive. It's only going to get worse.

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Originally posted by Fly-Sig:

Must-Ride means if we don't get there, an entire airplane won't be flying later on. We're riding to get to an airplane somewhere else. That airplane will fly multiple flights later on. If I don't get there, hundreds of passengers later on won't get where they want to go.

So the trade-off is one passenger gets bumped and delayed now, vs hundreds of passengers later on getting delayed.

Thanks for your input, from someone who has 'been there/done that' and knows what they are talking about. I fully understand this concept.

HOWEVER

The airline went about it the WRONG way. They offered $400 and a free ticket, then bumped the offer up to $800. As others have stated, they SHOULD have kept going until they had takers.

I have taken the 'volunteer for later flight' option ONCE in my life, when I really didn't have to be back at a certain time. Other times, I had work, or scheduled events, or something else that wouldn't allow me to stay a day later, as much as I would have liked the vouchers for free future flights (I have never been offered cash). In these cases, as a PAYING CUSTOMER, I don't give a rat's butt about the 'needs of the airline.' The airline got themselves into the problem; let the airline get its own way out without FORCING people off a flight. That is just jack-boot thuggery, IMO. United is going to lose millions over this, after all is said and done.

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What I don't understand is why United didn't increase their offer until someone voluntarily got off.

Agreed. Keep upping the ante until there are takers. Eventually, SOMEBODY would have taken the offer. Even if they had to pay $10,000, they would still be ahead money-wise after the huge PR black eye this gave them.

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Having said all that, when you're told to get off the airplane by someone on uniform, you get off the f'n airplane and sort it out later! Call your attorney if you think you have a case. But you aren't going to win against 3 trained men.

Normally, I would agree. I'm pretty much a 'law and order' kind of guy. However, I am cheering for the doctor in this case. Forcefully DRAGGING a man off a flight, after he had already been seated? That is ridiculous. He had done nothing wrong up to this point (not making threats or acting like an ass to the flight crew), so I can see why he would resist efforts to be removed from the flight. This should be a text-book example of what NOT to do for airline customer service training (if there is any for United - from this story, I have to wonder. . .).

Read the back of your ticket.

Deciding who gets bumped isnt EVER random. Its either based on check-in time, the price you paid for your sest, or any number of legitimate factors. IT IS NEVER RANDOM. When you are requested to deplane, for whatever the reason, the CAPTAIN has become involved at some level. Even if its an overbook situation, he is advised. It is HIS airplane. HE is responsible for it. Once you say "No" you are then interfering with a flight crew member...which is a felony. 49 USC 46504 to be exact. If LE is summoned, it has gone WAY TOO FAR.

Ive seen a lot of shit in 30 years of air travel. Id say there is a pretty even percentage of incidances where the fault lies squarely on the passenger.

Right at this moment I am over KS heading to work. The window exit Im sitting near has a leaky seal. It will hum for a few minutes, then stop, then hum again. The woman directly behind me has rang the stew 3 times now. Ive turned around, introduced myself, and politely explained the harmlessness of it all. She will have nothing to do with it. She WANTS something for her inconvenience.

Passengers sometimes need to look in the mirror.

United could have saved themselves a WHOLE LOT of grief by not loading the damn plane. There is NO WAY they didn't know they were over by at least a few seats.
My experience has always been that they ask for volunteers prior to loading, and I've taken them up more than a few times for pretty decent vouchers. I don't get filling the seats and THEN asking for volunteers, makes no sense whatsoever. I know what MY mindset is once I'm in my seat, I expect to get where I'm going. Don't seat me otherwise!

This was a straight up bait and switch and that doc is going to make some money.

as an operating procedure overbooking is a risk, and I understand why they do it

but the airline should take the hit not the passenger

so I hope the passenger sues United in to bankruptcy and forces United to re-think its customer service position

I understand the non-rev requirement to get crew to an aircraft, but this seemed a bit draconian

full disclosure - most of my friends is/are Delta pilots and I used to fly Delta until they fucked me over. I've never flown United and never will.

If I have to go somewhere I will drive before I will ever get on another airplane

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Originally posted by pedropcola:
Above is true. The four airline employees weren't going on vacation, they were going to man a flight out of the destination. A little pain now to not have a TON of pain later.

That is the AIRLINE's fault; not the customers'. Therefore, the airline should fix the problem by getting REAL volunteers; not forcing people from their seats. In other words, a screw-up by the airline should not result in inconveniencing paying customers.

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He wasn't removed by police until he refused to leave. Imagine owning your own business and for whatever reason you sold someone a widget and then realized you don't have a widget after all. You try to give them back their money and a bonus on top of that but they refuse to leave without a widget. "I'm not leaving until I get my widget". Eventually you call the cops because they are interfering with your legal right to run your business.

Not quite an accurate metaphor, IMO.


More like you own a restaurant and seat 50 people in the available 50 spaces. Then, after everybody has ordered their meals but before the appetizers arrive, you decide an employee has a greater need to eat than the customers. Instead of making it worth someone's while to vacate willingly, you forcefully remove somebody, kicking and screaming. Sure, that may be your right as a business owner, but don't be surprised when you get swamped with negative publicity and your business ends up tanking due to lost revenue. . .


They SHOULD have caught this problem at the gate. It's a lot easier to sort this out before people board. Once they are in their seats, it's too late to play these games, IMO.

People are fed up with the hassles of air travel as it is, with all the TSA-induced buffoonery, smaller seats/less legroom, less service (charging for every little thing), over-booking on nearly every flight I have been on, etc etc etc. The LAST thing the airlines need to do is aggravate their customers.

If United needs their Goddamned employess someplace else, then rent a Goddamned single engine plane and fly them the fuck wherever they need to be, and leave your paying passengers ALONE!!!!!

Overbooking is a disgusting practice, whether it be a Dr.'s office or an airline.

another video here:

http://hotair.com/archives/201...ed-flight-literally/

check out the third video. where the guy gets back on. I guess they removed him twice ?



United is lucky I won't be on the jury for the future lawsuit. I would give that guy a ton of $.

I wish several other male passengers had intervened and challenged the thugs. Yes, they may have been arrested. Sometimes when things happen, and you don't react, you spend the rest of your life wondering why you just sat in your seat.

Today, United will get a call from me. They're not going to like it.

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Originally posted by 46and2:
Overbooking is a disgusting practice, whether it be a Dr.'s office or an airline.

BAM!!!

Next time Im sitting at 1030 in the waiting room for my 0930 appointment, Im just gonna walk into the exam room and strip to my skivvies.....and demand service!