I jettisoned air travel 1991. Haven't missed anything I need to do yet.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
As an airline crew member I am not happy with that!

snip

So the trade-off is one passenger gets bumped and delayed now, vs hundreds of passengers later on getting delayed.

What I don't understand is why United didn't increase their offer until someone voluntarily got off.

Having said all that, when you're told to get off the airplane by someone on uniform, you get off the f'n airplane and sort it out later! Call your attorney if you think you have a case. But you aren't going to win against 3 trained men.

Are those security guys sworn law enforcement? Something isn't quite right.

I'm not a pilot but I agree. There's probably something explained invisible ink between the code lines on your baggage receipt that tells you this but good sense ought to inform you that you just lost the on-time lottery.

The hissy fit is just childish, he should have figured it out, he had three hourly types with directions, he was going to go.
I also noticed that he had a death grip on his cell phone, first things first.

quote:

Originally posted by darthfuster:
I understand the needs and urgencies of running an air transport system enough to see the reason in much of what goes on with it. I just don't want to participate in it. This is why Mrs DF and I just don't go anywhere anymore. If I can't drive there, I'm not going. I suppose that means I'll never see Spain.

My upcoming flight will almost certainly be my last. 79 years old and probability that some situation arises where I fly again is pretty small.

Mrs. and I have been known to drive cross country instead of flying.

The odds of me flying UAL is zero. As I said in previous post, had I a choice at this point I would switch airlines away from UAL.

That any of the limited set of other airlines is any better than UAL is questionable, but UAL has shown/proved they are in the running for winning the worst airline in operation today.

That's just not right. You paid for a seat and you should have it if you don't want to give it up.

The airline should have upped their offer until someone took it. Else, they could have gone to another airline and made arrangements with them.

Whose fault is this? There is a clear and unambiguous answer.

Class? Anyone?

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
Really stupid policy to randomly select people to be bumped.

It's not a random selection. The person being bumped is the person who checked in last.

Is that standard across all airlines? The article says that United told passengers that the lucky people would be chosen at random:

quote:

The woman who shot the video, Audra D. Bridges, said United offered passengers $400 and a free night in a hotel to take a flight at 3 p.m. Monday. When no one said yes, the airline doubled the offer to $800. Again, no one accepted the deal.

Then, United said a computer would randomly choose which passengers had to depart the already-boarded flight.

quote:

Originally posted by Fly-Sig:
. . . you aren't going to win against 3 trained men.

Are those security guys sworn law enforcement? Something isn't quite right.

I disagree. I think that the good doctor definitely "won".

He revealed United Airlines to be what they are: thugs.

The bullshit that United pulled on this flight is going to cost them MILLIONS in lost revenue alone, plus what is likely to be a fat settlement to the doctor.

The doctor didn't set out to be United's nemesis, United turned him into that themselves. And United LOST, big time.

quote:

Originally posted by BamaJeepster:

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:
It's not a random selection. The person being bumped is the person who checked in last.

Is that standard across all airlines? The article says that United told passengers that the lucky people would be chosen at random:

{snip}

That's what I've been told by gate agents who were working my flight (United carrier) and were having to bump someone.

I still have almost a million miles in my Delta Skymiles account, and in all those trips have never seen anything like this occur. The overselling of flights though is becoming absurd. When I used to fly almost weekly, I would schedule a flight so that I could be in New York or Boston in the early afternoon to attend meeting(s) that resulted in millions of dollars of future revenue for the company I owned part of. As such, I didn't give one wit about an airline and their issues shuttling pilots and crews around. I'm purchasing air travel at a particular time to a particular destination, not a ride on whatever plane at whatever time they determine is convenient for them to get me there.

This doctor is likely looking at a huge payday, even though he should have departed the plane when security arrived.

quote:

Originally posted by snoris:
On the front end of this, United (and just about every other commercial carrier) is at fault for overbooking and making the last few minutes before takeoff look like Let's Make a Deal with wings.

On the back end, flight crew members do have to get to where their next assignment originates without fail. If they don't, several flights could be delayed---stranding several hundred passengers---because commercial flight must have a certain number of crew members for both safety reasons and compliance with employment (union) contracts.

Once the situation got to the point where people had to be removed, that's one thing, and I can't speak to how the security people handled it. But none of this would have happened to begin with if not for the practice of overbooking.

This !!!!!!!

I understand that some flights may end up with no-show passengers, but removing passengers by force is not, IMO, an acceptable way to deal with it.

And, a question: Given all the pilots/flight crews working for UAL, why was it so freaking important to get that specific crew to some destination? Why not call a flight crew already at that destination in and let them fly?

Or is that against union rules?

Currently on a United flight right now flying over Utah. As a frequent air traveler, I have to say that was a tough call. I see the Docs point having to see patients Monday morning. United should have taken that into account and selected someone not going to work.

Tough call who or what occupation that would be.

I agree, United should have up'd the anti until someone agreed to get off.

No one, particularly the woman with the annoying voice, stepped up to volunteer a seat. They just recorded it on their phones and voiced their displeasure as the guy got dragged out. United and these "officers" are the bad guys here, no doubt. However, I would have given up the seat just to see if they'd drag him back and put him in his seat like nothing happened.

Interesting scenario: Would they have removed a pregnant woman the same way?

quote:

Originally posted by Elk Hunter:
And, a question: Given all the pilots/flight crews working for UAL, why was it so freaking important to get that specific crew to some destination? Why not call a flight crew already at that destination in and let them fly?

Or is that against union rules?

You assume there were flight crews available "at that destination" to wherever this "positive space" crew was going. Airlines don't have flight crews just hanging around at every conceivable destination in their route structure waiting for the "what ifs" of the day. Yes...there are pilots and flight attendants on Reserve, but when MAJOR weather events hit a HUB city or region, Crew Scheduling burns through those Reserve pilots pretty quickly in an effort to get the operation back on line.

I'm not condoning ANYTHING anyone did in this situation. I'm just bringing a dose of fact into the conversation...

Above is true. The four airline employees weren't going on vacation, they were going to man a flight out of the destination. A little pain now to not have a TON of pain later.

As for involuntary deplanements, it sucks but it also happens. If you refuse to leave my airplane for any reason I will absolutely have the po po haul your stupid ass off the plane. It is private property and it ain't yours. Yes, you bought a ticket and you will get your money back and maybe even a lot more but if the seat isn't available for you, then you have to get off. It really is that simple.

Based on previous shitty reporting (leggings girls getting kicked off, oh but they were riding on free passes that have a dress code) I don't know if United acted as poorly as they are represented here.

He wasn't removed by police until he refused to leave. Imagine owning your own business and for whatever reason you sold someone a widget and then realized you don't have a widget after all. You try to give them back their money and a bonus on top of that but they refuse to leave without a widget. "I'm not leaving until I get my widget". Eventually you call the cops because they are interfering with your legal right to run your business.

This doctor is an idiot if he let his ego get him to this point of requiring law enforcement. Maybe United could have handled it better maybe this guy is an immense dick. No way to know without being there.

Fuck those who created overbooking and those who support this SHITTY and SELF-SERVING policy of the airlines.

And anyone who supports this shameful shit, fuck you as well. Money-grubbing fucking assholes!

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
. . .This doctor is an idiot if he let his ego get him to this point of requiring law enforcement. Maybe United could have handled it better maybe this guy is an immense dick. No way to know without being there.

I see it much differently. Your metaphor is nonsense; this is nothing like a customer being tossed out of a brick-and-mortar shop because he wanted a widget that the shop didn't have.

It is United Airlines that was the idiot in this situation, NOT the doctor.

There are several other solutions that United could've applied. One of these is a glaringly obvious solution that would've cost the airline (probably) millions of dollars less: offer more money until someone voluntarily got off the plane.

Beating up your paying customers, customers who have commitments just as important as yours, is no way to run a business.

What do you suppose the doctor will get as a settlement when he sues?

How many tickets do you suppose United will NOT sell as a result of this negative publicity?

So, again, just who was stupid here?

United Airlines and their adherence to a disgusting and SELF-SERVING industry practice is to blame- not the passenger and not the police.

United Airlines and their bullshit is to blame.

Overbooking is garbage and anyone who supports this practice is a fool and probably works for one of these cattle car airlines.

quote:

Originally posted by SapperSteel:
Beating up your paying customers, customers who have commitments just as important as yours, is no way to run a business.

+1

It seems some people have lost sight of how important the customer is - he's the most important member of the story. I'm seeing people act as if HE is the one in the wrong, and I'm amazed.

"You know, running this airline would be a breeze if it just weren't for the darn customers!"

quote:

Originally posted by erj_pilot:

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
Really stupid policy to randomly select people to be bumped.

It's not a random selection. The person being bumped is the person who checked in last.

The article said the selection was random.

I feel pretty sure that the fare agreement contains your agreement to this procedure. But, it would be better (and cheaper in terms of publicity) for the airline to just keep increasing the offer to take a bump until someone accepts the cash.

Poor planning on their part (Airline), does not constitute and emergency on my part (being kicked off a flight that I paid for).

If they told me I need to leave the plane, they would be dragging me off as well. They would most likely have to rough me up as I am not going quietly.

They entered into a contract when they sold him the ticket, and now they are trying to re-neg. If they wanted room from the crew, perhaps they should not sell all of the seats.

This bullshit of overselling flights needs to stop. There's a simple solution to this problem.