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| Unapologetic Old School Curmudgeon  |
You keep coming back to cost and nobody being willing to pay it. The airlines have nickel and dimed us to death while chopping service for years. So yes, now we expect to pay as little as possible for the flight, just like we do for every single consumer item or service ever. We want more service at a lower price. We want more mags to come with the gun at a cheaper price, we want more bacon on the burger at a cheaper price, etc. I am an OEM automotive supplier, you don't have to tell me about razor thin margins and a difficult and highly competitive market with massive government regulations and a bad public image. In your example, what if the person getting involuntarily bumped had a dying relative, or a once in a lifetime cruise, or major business meeting that could mean millions of dollars and peoples jobs? Where does it stop? Don't weep for the stupid, or you will be crying all day | |||
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Info Guru |
Any of those amounts would have been cheaper than what this has cost United so far and far less than it will end up costing them in the end. They have refunded the fares of every passenger who was on that jet already and haven't even started settlement of the claim of the passenger who was assaulted and not counting the goodwill and future revenue impact of the decision. They have currently lost $255 million in market capitalization as the stock has fluctuated the past few days. The CEO of United is on the record as saying the passenger is completely blameless here and that United will never use force to remove someone in that situation again. “Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” - John Adams | |||
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| Made from a different mold  |
Too funny. Anyways, enough with me putting words in your mouth. How about I address one of your other questions. What is your max authorized amount to be offered to voluntarily come off the airplane? Lets go with "Whatever it takes" for $2000 please Alex.....If someone who has already paid for something, doesn't want to give up what they have paid for, should we just take it from them? Forcibly? That's called armed robbery there slick! Every scenario you have given has shown how much you really don't belong in a service industry. You put profits before people. The one thing you fail to realize is that without a paying customer, you are not going to have a plane to fly. Customers aren't going to pay to be beaten! Flogged lightly with a cat o nine tails maybe, but not beaten  ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Member |
One of the many accounts I read stated that while on the tarmac the United person on the mic supposedly stated: the plane is not going anywhere until we get the seats we need.... Again the attitude being shown is that the person who bought their tickets (at the price offered by United) is the problem. You, the customer, are the problem, you're the one who's going to get my ass handed to me by my supervision for being unreasonable, having the expectation that United is going to fly me to the agreed upon destination, at the agreed time, and agreed upon price. That's the attitude that got United. As qouted earlier: "Common sense tells me it is better to serve hundreds of customers at the expense of one or two who get bumped." Where is the common sense about taking care of the customers standing in front of you? That attitude is expediency in thinking that allows one to justify a crappy situation of their own/corporate making.... Bill Gullette | |||
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Member |
What, from .01% to .011%? You've pointed out the statistics of how very few actual denied-bordings there are, and even how many fewer altercations arise from a denied boarding. So what are we talking about here, an additional 1 per year? Hedley Lamarr: Wait, wait, wait. I'm unarmed. Bart: Alright, we'll settle this like men, with our fists. Hedley Lamarr: Sorry, I just remembered . . . I am armed. | |||
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Not really from Vienna |
Maybe the airlines should forbid passengers having cell phones on the aircraft. I bet the fine print allows that. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process  |
Decline in market cap isn't a loss, or a cost in any direct sense, to the company. I'm surprised there is further talk about overbooking. It seems that wasn't the situation. I wonder if you took this away from an airline setting into another where a customer was defying requests, instructions, commands, to the point law enforcement was called, then persisted in defying the LEOs, who then proceed to remove the defiant one, the analysis is any different, or if the hapless business would suffer the negatives. If law enforcement was called in, and handled it like this, why would it be the fault or responsibility of the business on whose premises it occurred? Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Made from a different mold |
As long as you give me a list of stuff that I can't do and you can give me a list of stuff you won't do, I don't see an issue. You are throwing yourself a temper tantrum now. If a business acts a fool, they should be treated like a fool. Bad decisions compounded by more bad decisions at UAL are what caused their problem. Say what you will about cameras, but they do tend to keep people honest, or at least offer the other side of the story. People hate on cameras because they can no longer act like peckerwoods. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| I believe in the principle of Due Process |
Compliance with aircrew instructions is voluntary. Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me. When you had the votes, we did things your way. Now, we have the votes and you will be doing things our way. This lesson in political reality from Lyndon B. Johnson "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." - Justice Janice Rogers Brown | |||
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| Member |
I believe it works by algorithms, for instance if a routine flight from Dallas to LAX has an average %20 cancellation rate on non-refundable tickets they in turn sell %20 of the tickets twice. To put it to numbers 100 tickets at $400= 40,000 With the 20% cancellation number they instead sell 120 tickets at $375 which =45,000 So you see they are saving you money by selling the tickets twice and they are also most likely making more money at the same time and in the event to many pesky customers show up to fly they just deny them boarding and stick them on another flight. | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
I think this has a lot to do with the flying public's attitudes towards the airlines - and not just for frequent fliers. A couple of years ago, I messed up my back and sitting for long periods aggravated it. I was on a domestic flight (Delta I think), and when my back started acting up, I got up and walked to the back of the plane. I was standing next to the galley and a flight attendant asks what I want. I said, I just need to stand up for a few minutes because my back is bothering me. Her reply: You can't stand here. Go back to your seat or I'll have you arrested." Seriously? About a month after that, I had another flight, this time on a European carrier (Lufthansa I think, but might have been Air France). Same situation. I get up to ease my back and wander back by the galley. Flight attendant asks what I'm doing. I tell her. She asks if she can get me something to drink while I'm there. Notice a difference? _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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thin skin can't win |
See - it only took 26 pages before we found something to all agree on! You did leave out the overarching company philosophy that embraces that however.
Of course they are, silly man!  You only have integrity once. - imprezaguy02 | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
Somehow, I figure that your "solution" would not be very successful. As has been suggested several times in this thread, the answer was simple! One of 2 choices! Either send the flight crew that "needed" seats by some other flight, as there appears to have been quite a number available, OR, simply keep offering more financial incentives to seated passengers until you got ONE more to choose a different flight. Seems pretty simple to me, but then I have always been a problem solver that avoided a lot o sticky situations by coming up with realistic solutions. Whoever the UAL employees are that instigated this MCF, they need to be fired! Immediately! Before this is over they will have cost the company many millions of dollars. Lawsuit, paying passengers who choose to not use UAL, etc. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
Yeah ok. She just came right out and said she'll have you arrested, did she... I've hung out at the galley plenty of times without any type of attitude from the flight attendants. Quite the opposite in fact. They're usually friendly and offer water or a snack. This shouldn't surprise you, but people have plenty of negative experiences on European carriers as well. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Member |
Maybe I missed the answer in this thread but there were/are many flights by many airlines thru out the day between Chicago's 2 airports and Louisville, including many airlines departing from O'Hare. Why couldn't United put their reflow crew on different airlines? | |||
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| Get busy living or get busy dying!  |
If the airlines would treat their CUSTOMERS like they are customers, there would not be as much public animosity towards the airlines. Then when something like this event occurs, the airlines would have a better chance of overcoming the public outburst. I can't think of another industry who treats their customers as poorly as the airlines do. The small seats and cramped spacing have gotten ridiculous. I'm sure executives at the airlines don't sit in office chairs like what is in coach class. | |||
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| No double standards |
Related article in today's dailymail.
Seems maybe the United CEO was setting the standard of serving self first and the customers second. "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it" - Judge Learned Hand, May 1944 | |||
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| Made from a different mold |
This sounds fun. Let's get a list of things going to bring to the collective bargaining hearing. 1. How about we start with a policy of not asking paying customers to exit their seat for no other reason than making the airline more money? One more question for you Fly-Sig and I hope you answer. If the aircrew had not told the Dr. to get off the plane, would there be a compliance issue? ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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| Eschew Obfuscation |
Yes, she did. That's why tatortodd's post caught my attention.
I'm sure that's true. I mentioned it because the contrast in attitudes was so striking. However, while I would not consider myself a frequent flier, I have flown domestically and internationally enough times to say that the quality of flight attendants is notably better on foreign carriers. _____________________________________________________________________ “One of the common failings among honorable people is a failure to appreciate how thoroughly dishonorable some other people can be, and how dangerous it is to trust them.” – Thomas Sowell | |||
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| Too old to run, too mean to quit! |
According to news articles, the airline industry is making record profits! That article was posted here on the forum, as I recall. Improvements of service? Seats made smaller, jammed closer together. Rows of seats jammed closer together. Passenger comfort, convenience be damned. Luggage restrictions continue to get worse and more expensive. $25 for the first checked bag, $50 for the second. Most of my working career was with an international company noted for its customer service! And that customer service was somewhat more expensive than our competitors. And, the customers kept using our services because we were the best in the business. To the point that the company hired a small jet to fly a $35 part from St. Louis to DC so we could get the customer's computer system back in service faster. Perhaps the trend in air travel will change back to where the passengers are the first consideration. Somehow I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Here is a suggestion: How about just removing all the seats from cattle car class, replace them with pads on which the cattle (pax) can sit, and strap them down. A little tongue in cheek, but not much. Elk There has never been an occasion where a people gave up their weapons in the interest of peace that didn't end in their massacre. (Louis L'Amour) "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical. " -Thomas Jefferson "America is great because she is good. If America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." Alexis de Tocqueville FBHO!!! The Idaho Elk Hunter | |||
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Topic ClosedSIGforum.com Main Page The Lounge United flight passenger beating/American Airlines fight with pregnant passenger - Page 47: Delta has gone too far this time
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