quote:

Originally posted by thunderson:

A) It was completely irrelevant to the question.
The real story as presented was an individual went off curriculum, was counseled, and refused to adjust.

It was clear he may have went off the curriculum ( and we don't know what he was/required to say).
But it wasn't clear that he refused, but did offer his view.
It was clear that the OP did not like the teachers opinion and that is pretty much where he left it.

^ I see your point. The phrase "stuck to his guns" led me to believe he wasn't going to stop teaching it. But you're right, the op wasn't clear in that regard.

Can somebody lock this shitshow? You guys need to treat each other with respect. We've never condoned personal attacks on people., especially members of this forum.

Interesting thread. Although I'm not in education or a lawyer, I am well versed enough in HR to know that religion is something where discrimination against is very much illegal. Whatever side you believe in, don't bring religion into this. It's not uncommon for lawsuits like this to end up costing employers tens of thousands of dollars or even 6 figures.

Tread carefully.

I have never understood why threads like these should be locked at the request of an individual member. For a mod to do it is understandable, but if an individual doesn’t like what or how something is being discussed, just stay out of it. There are any number of threads I’ve stopped even opening because the discourse was so annoying to me, and that’s what I’d recommend to anyone else.

As for “personal” attacks, I have yet to see that in this thread—although some of the comments directed at the OP have come close. Attacks on general beliefs that are shared by many people are not personal, IMO. If someone says that sigfreund ought to be put away for being so stupid, that’s personal by definition of the word. There are many attacks on beliefs that I hold that don’t mention me by name, though, that I cannot take personally because they’re not directed at me specifically and personally. And again, when my tolerance for them is exceeded, I stop reading them.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund

As for “personal” attacks, I have yet to see that in this thread—although some of the comments directed at the OP have come close.

Seems personal:

quote:

Originally posted by PrinceAliFabulousHe:
You sound like a total asshole and a great validation for me to continue to home school my kids.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
Seems personal:

quote:

Originally posted by PrinceAliFabulousHe:
You sound like a total asshole and a great validation for me to continue to home school my kids.

Ah, yes. True.
Now I wonder if personal attacks directed at the OP were what was being complained about. Hmmm ...?

It would seem that the direction of the rocks isn’t nearly as relevant as that they were thrown.

The original posters premise regarded the dismissal of an employee for insubordination and performance outside that established by management. Largely a legal matter, but clearly a sounding from the frustrated manager.

The conversation rapidly devolved into one of ego and petty bashing. You’re not a real Christian if...six thousand this, tectonic plates that, I believe, yada, yada, yada. All well off-track.

Where the off-track train jumps the rails is when we see the race to the bottom with name calling and personal insults, regardless of the target.

The icing on the cake will be the point when some intellectual giant tosses out “libtard.” Rock and bottom collide. Oops. Did I do that?

^^^^^^
Christianity was brought into the post by the OP’s thread title and text within the original post.

Thread Title:
“ Hiring/Firing a christian evangelical...”

Within text:
“ He basically said the earth was created the way it is now and anybody who dosen't believe that isn't a christian.”

I did a poll on the topic of old earth vs. young earth about this time last year:

How old do you think the earth is?

Might I suggest that any debates about the merits of the various opinions be redirected there. The heart of this present topic is the legal ramifications of firing someone for teaching religious views in conflict with school curriculum, not who's right in the earth science debate.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
You and/or your school board need to consult with an attorney that practices employment law in your state for this and future employment situations.
I would not post anymore on the internet concerning this situation and would edit past posts to remove disparaging references.
I don't disagree that this guy needs to go. Just the amateur hour approach you are using here.

This should pretty much be the /end of thread.

This thread has been begging to be locked since the beginning. The fact that it isn’t has me starting to question the existence of moderators.

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
...has me starting to question the existence of moderators.

You gotta have faith!

Some unacceptable commentary and name-calling aside, given the subject matter there have been some great observations made in this thread and some courteous/respectful back and forth.

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
This thread has been begging to be locked since the beginning. The fact that it isn’t has me starting to question the existence of moderators.

How many days did it take to create Sigforum? Is our existence a complete lie?

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:...

How many days did it take to create Sigforum? Is our existence a complete lie?

How do we know that SIGforum is not just some programming code on a server somewhere?

Mind.... blown.....

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
You and/or your school board need to consult with an attorney that practices employment law in your state for this and future employment situations.
I would not post anymore on the internet concerning this situation and would edit past posts to remove disparaging references.
I don't disagree that this guy needs to go. Just the amateur hour approach you are using here.

This should pretty much be the /end of thread.

Yes. I'm a career government manager and could not agree more. Do not drag work related dirty laundry onto the internet. It never ends well.

Newmexican, I strongly advise asking the mods to delete this thread. Legal will look for this kind of stuff during discovery. The odds of a frivolous lawsuit are high from someone as convinced of their beliefs as your employee.

If you were one of my employees I'd be raking you over the coals for exposing the organization to liability. As a leader and manager, you should know better. I hope you haven't said anything to him about his mental health.

This should be a call to HR and letting them do their jobs. Your job should be to find a replacement or sit in his classroom with your deputy or other senior staff member. And start praying to the god of shutting your mouth on the internet over things related to work.

Dude, I fear you've screwed yourself. The internet is forever.

An analogy is painting yourself into a corner, or even better, playing chess and through one's own blunder, manage to bring the King into Check, and despite all one's effort, Check Mate is just a few moves away.

Good luck to you, I'm certain you might very well need it.
.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: OKCGene,

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Orndorff:

quote:

Originally posted by P210:
...has me starting to question the existence of moderators.

You gotta have faith!

Some unacceptable commentary and name-calling aside, given the subject matter there have been some great observations made in this thread and some courteous/respectful back and forth.

So nice to see that the moderator(s) recognize the importance of intelligent discussion vs mere name calling.

The OP presented a situation that deserves analysis. You can argue feelings any time you want, but facts do matter. It's not the job of a teacher to insist that faith (feelings) matters more than objective facts. Some may have faith that the Earth is actually flat and that some grand conspiracy has misled people since the 1400's to believe otherwise. Should this person be hired to present this belief as factual by an employer who disagrees? Should kids be taught that all opinions are relative and that those unsupported by science are equal to those proven? Does air not really exist, because we can't see it?

Faith does matter, but choices matter too and who's hired to teach our children thereby establishing a common "norm", should depend upon what it is they are promoting.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:

quote:

Originally posted by houndawg:
As for your first question, it's how the teacher business works. As for your second question, where in my reply did you see where I said anything of the sort?

Still didn't answer my first question, and it's very specific, so the nebulous generalized answer is not going to do. But, whatever. It's clear that I'm not going to get it.

About my second question, you said, "where in my reply did you see where I said anything of the sort?" Who are you kidding? This thread is asking about firing a teacher that OP has a problem with, and you stated, "You don't need a reason". If it's not a reason to fire him, then what is it? Take him out to lunch?

Do you know what at-will means? It means a reason doesn't need to be given for dismissal or renewal. As for my knowledge of how the system works, my wife is a teacher. And I've seen it happen. 1st year teacher? Well we don't need you anymore. Don't come back next fall.

If you can't understand that, then oh well.