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Alea iacta est
Picture of Beancooker
posted January 01, 2021 06:26 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:

Faith is faith. There is no way to rank one faith above another—except by faith, and if you have faith that yours is true and mine is not, I may believe the same of mine versus yours, and we are on completely equal ground. You must therefore accept that I am every bit as justified in believing my beliefs as you are in believing yours. If you reject faith without evidence as a valid basis for any belief, then you have undermined and destroyed the basis for your own faith-based belief system.


Pretty damn good point here.



quote:
Originally posted by sigmonkey:
I'd fly to Turks and Caicos with live ammo falling out of my pockets before getting within spitting distance of NJ with a firearm.
The “lol” thread
 
Posts: 4546 | Location: Staring down at you with disdain, from the spooky mountaintop castle.  | Registered: November 20, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of sleepla8er
posted January 01, 2021 06:37 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by newmexican:
...
I formally signed off today on not renewing this dumbasses contract, he isn't tenured so I can do that but are there any other legal loopholes I need to watch out for?
...

I suggest you don't say anything about anything...

We offered you a contract and we each fulfilled the terms of that agreement. The contract has reached it's end as we both agreed to when it was signed.

I don't understand why you keep asking what is wrong, the contract has reach it's agreed to competition.

You will gain nothing by being critical of his teaching content or his mental state.

You want this done and over with, why give him reasons to go before a jury with a story about how the evil Principal fired him because of religious views and defemination by telling people I have a mental illness.

.
 
Posts: 2874 | Location: San Diego, CA  | Registered: July 14, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted January 01, 2021 06:38 PMHide Post
New Earth Creationists are the kookiest of modern normal Christians and are out of their fucking minds.

Pure nonsense, the whole thing. It has zero place in any modern school. Absolutely zero. Ever.

It's embarrassingly retarded, and shamefully so. Hang your heads low if you believe that bullshit.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted January 01, 2021 06:41 PMHide Post
220-9ER has nailed it:

“You and/or your school board need to consult with an attorney that practices employment law in your state for this and future employment situations.
I would not post anymore on the internet concerning this situation and would edit past posts to remove disparaging references.
I don't disagree that this guy needs to go. Just the amateur hour approach you are using here.”

This is what lawyers are for. Let them do their jobs. Your job is to lead teachers.
 
Posts: 177 | Registered: November 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted January 01, 2021 06:44 PMHide Post
Curious question. If an anti-American atheist was teaching their views in that classroom, would they be called mentally ill and kicked out the door?

(In California, they would be Teacher of the Year).




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted January 01, 2021 07:00 PMHide Post
Greg an could have a good point.
 
Posts: 6068 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
The Ice Cream Man
posted January 01, 2021 07:00 PMHide Post
Greymann
 
Posts: 6068 | Location: Republic of Ice Cream, Low Country, SC. | Registered: May 24, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
semi-reformed sailor
Picture of MikeinNC
posted January 01, 2021 07:11 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Skins2881:
This whole thread is hilarious. Everyone know the Flying Spaghetti Monster invented the earth in his laboratory 9 weeks ago.


May his noodle appendage be upon you.



"Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor.” Robert A. Heinlein

“You may beat me, but you will never win.” sigmonkey-2020

“A single round of buckshot to the torso almost always results in an immediate change of behavior.” Chris Baker
 
Posts: 11598 | Location: Temple, Texas! | Registered: October 07, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Maybe not so fabulous after all
posted January 01, 2021 07:16 PMHide Post
You sound like a total asshole and a great validation for me to continue to home school my kids.
 
Posts: 127 | Registered: August 31, 2020Reply With QuoteReport This Post
parati et volentes
Picture of houndawg
posted January 01, 2021 08:07 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 12131:
quote:
Originally posted by houndawg:
I'm not going to go into a science vs religion debate. He's a new, non- tenured, teacher. He's an at-will employee. You don't need a reason.


I take it you have detailed knowledge of the hiring and firing at his place of employment? Not just that, you encourage a guy who is professionally unqualified to label someone mentally ill to just go ahead a fire him?


As for your first question, it's how the teacher business works. As for your second question, where in my reply did you see where I said anything of the sort?
 
Posts: 8279 | Location: Illinois, Occupied America | Registered: February 23, 2000Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of PowerSurge
posted January 01, 2021 09:01 PMHide Post
I’m not a believer, but wow, I’ve lost a lot of respect for some people in this thread.


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4068 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Truth Wins
Picture of Micropterus
posted January 01, 2021 09:32 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:

Faith is faith. There is no way to rank one faith above another—except by faith, and if you have faith that yours is true and mine is not, I may believe the same of mine versus yours, and we are on completely equal ground. You must therefore accept that I am every bit as justified in believing my beliefs as you are in believing yours. If you reject faith without evidence as a valid basis for any belief, then you have undermined and destroyed the basis for your own faith-based belief system.


I don't disagree with you very often, but I do here.

Faith is a belief in something when everything about that belief seems irrational. Faith is the belief in something without clear evidence, or perhaps, with evidence to the contrary.

But belief in something based on evidence is actually not faith at all. It's simply knowledge based on experience, or trust in evidence. For instance, one does not sit in a chair with faith that it will hold them. They sit in a chair with the knowledge that it will hold them because they've done it time and time again and proven that it will.

If you believe in old earth, evolution, etc etc, it's because science says it's true and all that evidence has convinced you. That's not faith, that's trust in evidence.

Hebrews 11:1 tells us what Christian faith really is: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." Christian faith is different than what you've described. You believe in what you can see. Christians believe in the unseen. You believe in the rational. Christians believe in something irrational.

The Bible teaches Christians that faith is the only lifeline they have to God. Belief in what God tells us all, even if that belief runs contrary to every bit of scientific evidence there is, is what the Bible suggests is important to God. It also tells us Christian faith is not a decision man can make. One can't decide on his own to have faith. The Bible tells is that Christian faith is a gift from God. In other words, the Bible tells us that if you don't have Christian faith, it's because your not supposed to have it, because it hasn't been given to you.

What IF, just what if, there is a God? And that God never lies. And he tells you that your faith in his word is far more important than what you can see, feel and taste and decide for yourself? And what IF, God created an earth in 6 days, and filled it on day one with fossils, and all manner of evidence that the earth is billions of years old, and he told you to believe him that it was created in a few days, and not your own perception based on all that physical evidence that it was far older? What do you believe? Did he possibly not do that to test your faith?

It's irrational, admittedly. But belief in God's word contrary to evidence is the Christian faith.


_____________
"I enter a swamp as a sacred place—a sanctum sanctorum. There is the strength—the marrow of Nature." - Henry David Thoreau
 
Posts: 4285 | Location: In The Swamp | Registered: January 03, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No double standards
posted January 01, 2021 09:49 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I’m not a believer, but wow, I’ve lost a lot of respect for some people in this thread.


I understand.




"Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it....While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it"
- Judge Learned Hand, May 1944
 
Posts: 30668 | Location: UT | Registered: November 11, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted January 01, 2021 10:22 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Micropterus:
Faith is the belief in something without clear evidence, or perhaps, with evidence to the contrary.

But belief in something based on evidence is actually not faith at all.


You are of course correct, which is why I defined it that way in my post:

“I fully understand the concept of religious faith as ‘belief without evidence,’ and very often its being belief in spite of contrary evidence.”

What I’m saying, though, is that a frequent challenge to science- and evidence-based belief is the claim that it is actually “faith,” and therefore no different than religious faith. You recognize that it isn’t, just as I do, but many people do not, and therein lies a danger to their own beliefs. I cannot criticize another’s way of thinking if I rely upon it myself. I.e., if someone has a faith-based belief, then he must grant me the same privilege of believing solely on the basis of faith. He may believe that his faith is correct and mine wrong, but there is no reason I cannot believe that his is wrong and mine is correct with equal justification. And because they are both faith, there is no way to demonstrate which of ours is right.

A similar claim is that atheism is a religion, which most atheists reject. If we were to accept it, though, then we would be justified in claiming all the benefits of being a religion, including the lack of any need to justify any of our beliefs other than that we believe them.

But as you point out, none of that relates to the challenge of an evidence-based belief. Someone might propose that 800,000 distinct layers in an ice core could have been laid down in 6000 years rather than 800K, but that is an objective objection that doesn’t attempt to suggest that I don’t have evidence for my belief that the Earth is more than 6000 years old. At that point the debate turns to evaluating the evidence that supports our respective beliefs, and not blind faith.

And not to drift too much further off topic, there is a common Christian tenet that “[T]hat God never lies,” and Satan is the Father of Lies. And yet there is another idea that everything we can see that demonstrates the Earth’s great age—fossils, evolution, geology, expansion of the universe, and countless other evidence—was manufactured by God to deceive us: In other words, it’s all a lie to test our faith. Lest we forget, the earliest investigators who examined the evidence of fossils and the geological record were European Christians who very often struggled mightily to reconcile their findings with the various Bibles they had been raised with. They were not atheist professors at UC Berkley who had already rejected Scripture. Why would God lie to them? Is it possible he lied to them and countless other scientists and questing minds who only wanted to discover the truth? Yes, but of all the things I find difficult to believe about the Christian God, that is near the top of the list.




6.4/93.6

“ Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one’s own understanding without another’s guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one’s own mind without another’s guidance.”
— Immanuel Kant
 
Posts: 48020 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted January 01, 2021 10:28 PMHide Post
There are many modern miracles. Among them are the internal combustion engine, antibiotics, air travel, instant communication and cures for some types of cancers. All of those things are possible because of SCIENCE. On the other hand, you can believe a book that was written thousands of years ago by people that thought the world was flat, that the sun revolves around the earth, and that demons are the cause of illness.

I couldn’t care less what people believe, or whether they attend religious services, but to teach children that they should reject rational scientific thought and to instead believe that the answers to science questions can be found in the Christian bible is to stymie the education of those children.

Question - If you were having chest pain and shortness of breath, would you go to a church to pray or to an Emergency Room so that they could perform a heart cath procedure? It’s a free country and people can do what they want, but for me, I would go to the ER.
 
Posts: 177 | Registered: November 04, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Be not wise in
thine own eyes
Picture of kimber1911
posted January 01, 2021 11:22 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Micropterus:
The Bible tells us that Christian faith is a gift from God. In other words, the Bible tells us that if you don't have Christian faith, it's because your not supposed to have it, because it hasn't been given to you.
From a Christian perspective that would be rephrased quite differently.
In other words, the Bible tells us salvation is a gift from God.
All have sinned, the penalty of sin is death.
Eternal life is a free gift which anyone can choose to receive.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

To me it would seem to take greater faith to believe in the Big Bang than in Intelligent Design.
Here my thoughts align with Browndrake.
“I consider myself to be a reasonable man and when I look at the incredible complexity, diversity, and balance of the world we live in, it seems very reasonable to me that an intelligent designer built it. To me, it actually defies reason that it all got here by cosmic chance.”

In regards to public education my thoughts align with V-Tail.
There are two schools of thought:
"Creation . . . and

"Evolution . . .

Present both theories.

In regard to the earths age, simple again, teach them that there are multiple competing theories.

In response to bogeyman’s question, I would go to the hospital knowing that God designed the human body in a manner in which all the parts can work together to perform such amazing feats.

Take a look at the wording above.
“All have sinned.” No one here is better than anyone else regardless of believes.

“... it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
No matter how good of a person you are, that is not what gets you into heaven.
This also means, no matter what you have done, the gift of salvation is still available to you.



“We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,”
Pres. Select, Joe Biden

“Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021
 
Posts: 5296 | Location: USA | Registered: December 05, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Dinosaur
Picture of P210
posted January 01, 2021 11:44 PMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
My jaw is on the floor from some of the responses in this thread. Incredible.


That makes two of us. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
 
Posts: 6975 | Location: 96753 | Registered: December 15, 1999Reply With QuoteReport This Post
I'll use the Red Key
Picture of 2012BOSS302
posted January 02, 2021 12:56 AMHide Post
I'm all for firing those at all levels in academia spouting the fairytales and lies of the benefits of socialism, communism, marxism, leninism and all these other failures. This is 100% easy to prove in recent 20th century history, a rather short time frame relative to plate tectonics, and no carbon dating required. Just teaching the truth. When you get done getting rid of all these useful idiots infesting and absolutely ruining an already questionable education system and outright lying to students, come back and we can discuss the Christian guy.

And to use 46+2's line but apply it to said socialism/marxism/communism.

quote:
Pure nonsense, the whole thing. It has zero place in any modern school. Absolutely zero. Ever.

It's embarrassingly retarded, and shamefully so. Hang your heads low if you believe that bullshit.




Donald Trump is not a politician, he is a leader, politicians are a dime a dozen, leaders are priceless.
 
Posts: 3820 | Location: Idaho | Registered: January 26, 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Banned
posted January 02, 2021 05:09 AMHide Post
Maybe you are wrong, not him.
 
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Member
Picture of cne32507
posted January 02, 2021 06:38 AMHide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 46and2:
New Earth Creationists are the kookiest of modern normal Christians and are out of their fucking minds.

Pure nonsense, the whole thing. It has zero place in any modern school. Absolutely zero. Ever.

It's embarrassingly retarded, and shamefully so. Hang your heads low if you believe that bullshit.

I had never heard of Young Earth creationism before this thread. That's some crazy wild shit right there. Learn something new every day on SigForum, that's for sure.
 
Posts: 2520 | Location: High Sierra & Low Desert | Registered: February 03, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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