Hello,

I hope you all have had an excellent new year years.

Here is my problem. I am the principal of a small school, we serve ~190 students total, I have been the principal for 3 years now and I'd never dreamed I would actually witness such BS in my life but here it is.


I hired a 7th grade teacher, His references were 50/50 but given the circumstances, I cant be too picky. He has been teaching about 14 years in a few states (wyoming, Oregon, Florida).

This whole situation has taken me a few weeks to process because I just can't believe its a real thing.

I went into his class for an observation and he was telling students that the earth is only 6000 years old, he was telling them that evolution, geology, plate tectonics and carbon dating are lies.

I spoke with him, he stuck to his guns, whenever I asked him about how he came to these conclusions, his answer was "my faith" but no substance or evidence to challenge anything.

He basically said the earth was created the way it is now and anybody who dosen't believe that isn't a christian.

Anyways....I need to fire him, I can't have somebody teaching lies to kids and spreading this kind of crap.

I formally signed off today on not renewing this dumbasses contract, he isn't tenured so I can do that but are there any other legal loopholes I need to watch out for?

I've never had to let a guy go for mental illness before, just trying to make sure I do it the right way.

Thanks!!!

Not getting any help from me because I believe he's 100% correct! However, I will state that he needs to study up on creation as it fully aligns with science and not just pull the "faith" card.

If you don't believe me, go visit one of the following:

Summary of Scientific Evidence of Creation (Parts I and II) from ICR.org https://www.icr.org/article/su...idence-for-creation/

7 Scientific Findings That Support Creation over Evolution https://www.whatchristianswant...nism-over-evolution/

www.allaboutcreation.org https://www.allaboutcreation.o...-creationism-faq.htm

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Not getting any help from me because I believe he's 100% correct! However, I will state that he needs to study up on creation as it fully aligns with science and not just pull the "faith" card.

If you don't believe me, go visit one of the following:

Summary of Scientific Evidence of Creation (Parts I and II) from ICR.org https://www.icr.org/article/su...idence-for-creation/

7 Scientific Findings That Support Creation over Evolution https://www.whatchristianswant...nism-over-evolution/

www.allaboutcreation.org https://www.allaboutcreation.o...-creationism-faq.htm

I simply can't keep a teacher hired who refuses ro teach geology, plate tectonics or general science. When you say you agree with im, are you being serious??? you ignore every facet of science and believe to world is 6000 years old???

I mean, as a teacher, he has to teach, not preach which is why he won't be workig here but it baffles my mind.

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Not getting any help from me because I believe he's 100% correct! However, I will state that he needs to study up on creation as it fully aligns with science and not just pull the "faith" card.

If you don't believe me, go visit one of the following:

Summary of Scientific Evidence of Creation (Parts I and II) from ICR.org https://www.icr.org/article/su...idence-for-creation/

7 Scientific Findings That Support Creation over Evolution https://www.whatchristianswant...nism-over-evolution/

www.allaboutcreation.org https://www.allaboutcreation.o...-creationism-faq.htm

I'll also add, this "teacher" provided many similar examples of websites but they all just seem to be opinion pieces, there are tens of thousands of sources to refute those articles.

I disagree with the Earth itself being only 6000 years old and the other things, but that doesn't mean mental illness. I wouldn't play that card. Can't you just say he "failed to perform to standard" or some such language? What class or classes is he teaching, and do these things have anything to do with the subject matter? That could be a standard violation.

quote:

Originally posted by egregore:
I disagree with the Earth itself being only 6000 years old and the other things, but that doesn't mean mental illness. I wouldn't play that card. Can't you just say he "failed to perform to standard" or some such language? What class or classes is he teaching, and do these things have anything to do with the subject matter?

Yes and I absolutely did, I'm just sort of venting here. He was hired as a 7th grade science teacher so these things are absolutely conflicting.

I'm with bronicabill and most mainstream Christians who also agree with him.

Sure, there are probably plenty who buy into the "long day theory" or other creative approaches that attempt to reconcile secular origin theories with the biblical creation story, but there are also people who call themselves Christians, but believe that most all of what is contained in scripture is nothing more than fable designed to teach some sort of lesson. I question their "Christianity".

Equally ridiculous are Christians who deny the existence of dinosaurs, plate tectonics, micro-evolution, or anything else for which objective evidence is readily available. But to suggest that the almighty God who created the universe was bound to create some nacent dust ball and allow it to develop naturally over time rather than creating the universe, and all that is in it, fully formed, and with what we would consider "age" is also ridiculous.

I assume, of course, that your school is secular in nature and that you require a science teacher to teach secular theories. Have you asked him if he would be willing to teach secular theories as such along with a more comprehensive survey of competing creation theories from other faiths?

Has any compromise been suggested?

From a legal standpoint, I'd be careful to hide your personal hostility however you handle it.

-Rob

This is actually not as difficult as you would think, depending on state laws. I have been in a similar situation.

If your curriculum is clearly defined, then someone who chooses to not follow the curriculum is not performing their job. If it's not clearly defined you should do that pronto.

ETA

Do not go the mental illness route, unless you are qualified to make such an assessment. The best way to cover yourself is to have clearly defined and reasonable job duties and expectations. If those aren't being met then you have justification for termination. This advice is worth exactly what you paid for it. Whenever I've had to terminate someones employment it was always related to job performance which is easily documented.

quote:

Originally posted by thunderson:
This is actually not as difficult as you would think, depending on state laws. I have been in a similar situation.

If your curriculum is clearly defined, then someone who chooses to not follow the curriculum is not performing their job. If it's not clearly defined you should do that pronto.

Yes, its done. I just wonder how this is even a thing.

When you think about it, it's not really any different than a ton of the secular bullshit that's taught based on lack of or incomplete science. Remember we're all dead now from overpopulation and global warming.

I have met and dealt with some who felt the same as you have described. My way of thinking tends to be along the lines of they can't see the forest for the trees.

I know you’re probably stuck with your curriculum, but my issue with children’s “science” classes, is the “lies for children” level is, and has to be, so high, that they are mostly taught bunk.

Obviously, just my personal opinion. I just figured at that age, it’s be better to focus on chemistry/scientific method, and other stuff they should have the math to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
I know you’re probably stuck with your curriculum, but my issue with children’s “science” classes, is the “lies for children” level is, and has to be, so high, that they are mostly taught bunk.

Obviously, just my personal opinion. I just figured at that age, it’s be better to focus on chemistry/scientific method, and other stuff they should have the math to do.

The curriculum isn't that intense but the focus is on earth science.

And none of those kids have the math for it. (Nor do your teachers, most likely)

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
And none of those kids have the math for it. (Nor do your teachers, most likely)

Not sure what that means, but ignoring science is a no go here. 4th graders can do
Math that gets to 6000, we
Try to aim a bit higher here.

I have no ilustrated opinion on the details of all of this. What i do know and find revolting is the proven fact that if your first information at a young age is WRONG it will root and stick with you for the rest of your life. If this Ahole is feeding the children BS, he, as a teacher, is knowinly harming these young persons present and future.

We discuss this endlessly when we talk about gun handling. First impressions are hard to change. Very.

Give this fellow the boot.

0-0

Yes, 4th grade is an impressionable age and children should be taught science in the classroom. My 4th-grade science teacher was a main-stream Baptist and, on occasion, injected scripture into the classroom. I assumed she was normal until she compared bible versions (in class) and stated she loved the King James version because it was the way Jesus talked. From that statement, I saw that she was ignorant and never trusted her as a teacher of facts again.

A Principle of a school coming to a forum to ask opinions about something like this should IMHO be removed from his job.Your board should be involved .Remember what you put on the internet is forever (mental illness).

As stated before, expectations of job duties and not meeting those expectations. That’s the reason for termination. You have a well defined curriculum, and he’s not teaching to that.

Do not go down the road of “mental illness”. You aren’t qualified to come to that conclusion, and you are quite insulting to his faith.

I wouldn’t muddy the waters with trying to find a compromise. If you’re to the point of termination, finding compromise will probably be a wasted effort.

quote:

Originally posted by triggertreat:
A Principle of a school coming to a forum to ask opinions about something like this should IMHO be removed from his job.Your board should be involved .Remember what you put on the internet is forever (mental illness).

Why? Asking for advice isn’t necessarily a bad thing. We don’t always have all the answers and getting the opinion and viewpoints of others can assist in making a better decision.

quote:

Originally posted by newmexican:

quote:

Originally posted by bronicabill:
Not getting any help from me because I believe he's 100% correct! However, I will state that he needs to study up on creation as it fully aligns with science and not just pull the "faith" card.

If you don't believe me, go visit one of the following:

Summary of Scientific Evidence of Creation (Parts I and II) from ICR.org https://www.icr.org/article/su...idence-for-creation/

7 Scientific Findings That Support Creation over Evolution https://www.whatchristianswant...nism-over-evolution/

www.allaboutcreation.org https://www.allaboutcreation.o...-creationism-faq.htm

I simply can't keep a teacher hired who refuses ro teach geology, plate tectonics or general science. When you say you agree with im, are you being serious??? you ignore every facet of science and believe to world is 6000 years old???

I mean, as a teacher, he has to teach, not preach which is why he won't be workig here but it baffles my mind.

I'm not going to get into the date of the earth thing. BUT, you need to tread carefully here. You need to fire him for not following/teaching the class textbook (just like you mentioned in what I quoted) and following the syllabus of the class (lack of performance) and document it and stay out of the religon side of the reason he's teaching what he's teaching (at all costs)