I watched the first 2 episodes and had to give it up due to the subtitles. I have to focus so much attention on reading them I miss out on the action.

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I'm not sure if any of you are keeping up with this series, or have read the book, but episode 6 covers "willow world", and while the book does delve into this a bit, there's a scene put to film in this episode that I can't recall whether it's directly from the book or not.

That being said, the way they wrote this scene is a raw example of why I am 100% convinced that explicit scenes can NEVER top a person's imagination, whatever the emotion the writers are trying to garner. If it's murder or horror, blood and guts always pale in comparison to what is not shown - but what you perceive to have happened in your own mind.

In this particular scene, the way they wrote Kiku's use of space and the explanation of Willow World to Blackthorne elicits raw hunger/passion/need that I'm convinced no human could ever come close to by filming two naked bodies slapping together. Blackthornes reaction, and then strengthless contact with Mariko is a perfect end, even before the probable "happy ending". So to speak.

I actually stopped the episode to come and write this. I love impactful writing so much.

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Agreed. That episode was my favorite so far. Superb storytelling and brilliantly acted.
Spinzone, on Hulu I believe there is a dubbed version you can select if the subtitles are a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:
^
Agreed. That episode was my favorite so far. Superb storytelling and brilliantly acted.
Spinzone, on Hulu I believe there is a dubbed version you can select if the subtitles are a problem.

Ryanp225, you’re awesome! I did not know this but dug around and found the dubbed settings. I.m back into the show. Thanks for the heads up.

Next week: Crimson Sky!!!

quote:

Originally posted by kkina:
Next week: Crimson Sky!!!

Looks like the title of episode 9 is Crimson Sky, so probably two more episodes of political intrigue, exposition, and setup.

There were some amazingly powerful scenes in that episode. This gets better every week.

Yes, last night’s episode was excellent, just like the whole series. The meeting between Taranaga and his vassals was IMO the best scene in the series. I look forward to every episode.

quote:

Originally posted by SpinZone:
I watched the first 2 episodes and had to give it up due to the subtitles. I have to focus so much attention on reading them I miss out on the action.

FYI, when you pull up the "Episodes" page on Hulu, across the top of the page is a menu you can slide across to choose to watch the version that has been dubbed into English.

Gnarly seppuku scene this week. Of course, it's all a ploy.

The choice of building sites granted to some characters.

Initially thought it a strange ending, specifically with Blackthorne seeming to have a future vision (or future flashback) of his deathbed back home in England, clutching Mariko's crucifix, then later he is seen dropping it for real in Osaka Bay. Then I realized the title of the final episode was "A Dream of a Dream".

Also neat was Yabushige's seppuku scene, with Toranaga not admitting out loud he was just as ambitious as he was, but that final grin said it all.

(Incidentally, the Vancouver bay where the scene with Blackthorne and Fuji scattering ashes was filmed was the actual bay where James Clavell's ashes were scattered. This was not planned, just a wild coincidence.)

Meh. I watched it. All of it. In fact I just finished watching the final episode. It was generally well done but strayed so far from the book as to be similar in title only.

I know it's been said often about a lot of movies or mini series, but in this case the series doesn't begin to hold a candle to the book IMHO.

Just wanted to post the opening title sequence for those who haven't seen, so well done.

I thought the ending made no sense at all. The first scenes showed him on his deathbed in England clutching the crucifix. Did that really happen? Nope because we saw him throw the crucifix in the sea decades earlier.

Toranaga said Blackthorn would never leave Japan as he would blow up his ship again if he ever rebuilt it. So, what was the point of the scene in London? There isn't one except to just mess with your head.

Nothing was ever completed. We were all left with a "promise" that certain events would happen. Did they? Did she really commit all of her armies to Toranaga? Hell, we don't know. What really did happen to Blackthorn? Again, we don't know.

For me, they screwed up a really great story.

This series leaves me with mixed emotions. It was very competent, and you can see that they clearly worked VERY hard on making things feel authentic.

Spoiler Potential (Look, just go watch it if you want to participate in the conversation.)


The Good
I thought the fish-out-of-water portrayal was very well done. I thought all of the actors playing the Japanese and Portuguese characters did a fine job. The actor playing the Portuguese pilot, Nestor Carbonell, is fantastic and did a great job. All of the Japanese lords were well done. Yabushige was well portrayed and hooked me as the slightly likable traitor he was in the book.

The attention to detail was pretty fantastic. Anna Sawai as Mariko was fantastic. Fuji was well-cast.

The setting felt real and lived in. The CGI was well executed, for the most part.


The Bad
Let's start with Cosmo Jarvis. I'm sure he's a fine actor, but I feel he was miscast in this. I got the impression in the book that while Pilots were respected, Blackthorne wasn't necessarily THAT commanding of a presence. Cosmo Jarvis' presence, to me, borders on caricature of "John Blackthorne", and I can't exactly put my finger on it. His voice was poorly done and felt out of place, and I don't know if that was some kind of homage to Richard Chamberlain or John Hurt, but it sucked. Likewise, the way that he carried himself, especially in later episodes, felt like he was trying to portray an English butler and felt stupid.

Secondly, for all of the showrunner's attention to detail, there were some glaring issues that ran contrary to all of the work they put into making this show. It's little things like Omi doing the anime sword whip to shake the blood off, not wiping it off, and then putting his sword back into it's sheath. It's pretty idiotic that someone even let that make it to screen. Little things that are contemporary culture influencing this historical fiction.

Third, there is no excuse for this series to be only 10 episodes. The book is huge, and so is the story. It's already an issue when you try to transpose written stories to visiually consumed enterntainment. There are plenty of examples where this is clearly evident, and caused what could have been an epic series with a long lifespan to be something that is entertaining and probably forgotten in a year or two. If they had given it 15 or 18 episodes, they could have expanded on relationships much more than they did, and not had character development feel so rushed and insincere.

Example One - This is low-hanging fruit - Mariko and Blackthorne. In the show, these two felt like middle-schoolers forced to "be together" because reasons. It was dumb and didn't leave me caring for their relationship at all. This is 100% because they wrote for 10 episode expediency. I know this because the Tea House scene with Mariko and her husband, and scene where Kiku talks "through" Mariko were goddamn works of art. Mariko and Blackthorne needed more passion, and more time for that passion to develop because in the book, whether it was something that could have happened in the real world or not, these two were hot for eachother in a pretty big way. The show did a poor job with these two which was a missed opportunity that I feel will ultimately play a role in this show not hooking people as much as it could have.

Example Two - Toranaga's planning and subterfuge felt silly and brief.

Example Three - Blackthorne's assimilation, or attempt, was rushed. They could have easily written in some scenes about general cleanliness and how important bathing is/was, as opposed to one bath conversation and him talking about how gross his shipmates were. On top of that though, his general misunderstanding of Japanese culture could have used more "ah-ha!" moments, instead of him acting like a pompous jackass for the entirety of the series.

Example Four - Every other relationship/conversation where the book conveyed slice of life or cultural differences was an opportunity to give the characters more time to breath. Hell, I'm pretty sure Fuji jumped into bed with Blackthorne and Mariko at one point, and while I'm not necessarily looking for a threesome on screen, I think that the passage of time created more of a friendship/relationship with Blackthorne and Fuji than what the show allowed for. It sounds trite, possibly, but it speaks to a larger issue with time-compression due to being handed a timeline, probably.

The Ugly
The last half of the 9th episode as well as the entire 10th episode reeked of the time-compression issues that I talk about above. I need to point out though that my biggest beef with the book, and I'm probably in the same camp as 99% of the book-readers, is that EVERYTHING in the book moved towards an epic showdown that never payed off. I get that the war itself wasn't in the book, but they could have done better with the wrap-up in the show than they did. It was terrible. They were slinging nonsensical lines and scenes around like no-one's business, and everything really started to fall apart.

Why did the heir's mother even have a say if Ishido was calling all the shots anyway, especially once he filled the council with yes-men? Why did she sit in on the council when they were betrothed, but not before, if being the heir's mother was so important? Why did the conversation between Toranaga and Yabu have to be the vehicle for the epilogue? Why did Toranaga have such a crisis of character but then get all of a sudden become super-planner, but oh it was thanks to Mariko's sacrifice that he knew would happen but didnt know. It was stupid and everything in the last episode felt poorly written, not cohesive, and forgettable. You can't make an epic meal and then serve burned kale-flavored-walnut cake for dessert and hope people remember the meal and, more importantly, want to tell their friends about your cooking.

Mariko as a character was handled supremely well up until halfway through episode 9. The attempt to leave, the attempt to commit suicide. The implications. All of it was ruined by creating a 3 minute scene where she gets killed by the door explosion. Yes it happened in the book, no it didn't need to be so rushed, and I guess if I cared for her a bit more it would have struck me more and not felt like the squeezed it in to keep things tidy and to keep episode 10 as "the wrapup". It all felt so much less impactful than I think it could have.

There are three scenes that will probably cause me to rewatch this series at some point:

1. Buntaro dining with Blackthorne and shooting the arrows past his wife's face. The tension feels authentic, and despite my hangups with Cosmo Jarvis, he does a good job bringing the viewer into the situation.
2. The brothel scene with Mariko, Blackthorne, and Kiku. I love how it's written and I love how it works on screen.
3. The tea house scene where Buntaro serves tea to Mariko. This is a very cerebral scene and there is, in my opinion, a lot of technical work that probably goes unnoticed. More than that though, it conveys the lack of emotion between the couple very well. Buntaro looking to create something that he thought could be, but never was. Mariko looking to fulfill something she feels she must, and cannot be complete as a person if she does not.

Overall, this was decent, but could have been amazing with some small rudder corrections. Im my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Bassamatic:
I thought the ending made no sense at all. The first scenes showed him on his deathbed in England clutching the crucifix. Did that really happen? Nope because we saw him throw the crucifix in the sea decades earlier.

Toranaga said Blackthorn would never leave Japan as he would blow up his ship again if he ever rebuilt it. So, what was the point of the scene in London? There isn't one except to just mess with your head.

Nothing was ever completed. We were all left with a "promise" that certain events would happen. Did they? Did she really commit all of her armies to Toranaga? Hell, we don't know. What really did happen to Blackthorn? Again, we don't know.

For me, they screwed up a really great story.

Fair points. So much of that episode felt like "scrapbooking" to just get a bunch of shit together, even if it didn't make sense, or add to the story.

Like wtf with those two boys in the bedroom. So dumb. Honestly, I can't imagine the Blackthorne of the end of the book even wanting to go back to England.

quote:

Originally posted by Veeper:
Let's start with Cosmo Jarvis. I'm sure he's a fine actor, but I feel he was miscast in this. I got the impression in the book that while Pilots were respected, Blackthorne wasn't necessarily THAT commanding of a presence. Cosmo Jarvis' presence, to me, borders on caricature of "John Blackthorne", and I can't exactly put my finger on it. His voice was poorly done and felt out of place, and I don't know if that was some kind of homage to Richard Chamberlain or John Hurt, but it sucked. Likewise, the way that he carried himself, especially in later episodes, felt like he was trying to portray an English butler and felt stupid.

I appreciate your analysis; I never read the book, so your insight was valuable to me.

Maybe you have to be a certain age, but I thought Jarvis either does, or was trying to, sound like Richard Burton. He has Burton’s baritone voice, but not his Welsh background.

Until 15 or 20 minutes before the end, I thought the miniseries was not going to wrap up with the 10th episode and that I was mistaken that it was ending. The acceleration to conclusion gave me a nosebleed.

I could not agree more with Veeper's assessment of the actor who played Blackthorn.

In the book, Blackthorne is much more capable, intelligent, accomplished. In this miniseries, he seems to just stumble from place to place and episode to episode haphazardly. I told my wife on episode eight or nine that he was a poor choice for the character.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: mojojojo,

quote:

In the book, Blackthorne is much more capable, intelligent, accomplished. In this miniseries, he seems to just stumble from place to place and episode episode haphazardly. I told my wife on episode eight or nine that he was a poor choice for the character.

Yeah I think that’s more of it.

Honestly the book is daunting in size but very engrossing, and easier to take in than you might think.


(That’s what she said.)