So. AARs....


Training: Not sure I've still fully processed all of it. Much of the basics I knew - prone position, gear selection, etc etc. So, I'll just cover some of the high points that I did not know:

A right to left wind will raise the bullet. A left to right wind will push the bullet down (assuming a right twist barrel). We shot 1000 yards one direction, then flipped 180 degrees and shot 1000 yards again. In my rifle, with my loads, there was a 2 minute difference in impact on target. We also observed that SOME ballistics applications do take this into account - so pay attention to what you use, and recognize if it does or does not.

We worked on wind reading skills, mostly using grass and mirage as guides.

At this point, I'm good enough to use my kestrel to figure out the wind SPEED, then use mirage and grass to figure out if it is then a full value, half value, or some other percentage that I should use. I'm pretty good at determining direction now. Certainly not pro, but much better than I was. Still need the kestrel to figure out speed though.


We did a lot of barricade work. Jim demonstrated how he attacks various barricades - stairstep, shoot house, cattle fence, rooftop, tank barricade. Then we got to get on the barricades and mess around with them, figuring out the best way to situate ourselves, getting help and tips on how to build a position based on our height and body type, etc. This part was very one-on-one.

The two biggest take-aways from that were:

It's better to hit slow than to miss fast (meaning, if there are 6 shots to be taken from a barricade, take your time and hit as many as you can, even if you time out, rather than running through them and getting off all your shots, but missing most or all of them).

Building a stable position TAKES time, but SHOOTING from a stable position SAVES time. Meaning, if you're unstable, it might take you 15 seconds per shot, but if you spend 20 seconds up front getting stable, you can break shots in only 5 seconds then, and have a better chance of them being impacts.


-----------------------match AAR----------------


I was squadded with JS Griswold, the #14-ranked PRS shooter for 2015. I was very fortunate!

The wind was very consistent all day long, out of the right at 10-15 mph. It shifted a touch here and there from 3:00 to 5:00, so you had to pay attention to that, but it felt the same speed all day long, which made for many problems with shooters short on wind skills.

We started on stage 4. Targets were three coyote shaped pieces of steel at 461, 536, and 636. Prone, shoot the near target, far target, then the middle target, then repeat. 2:00

I dialed the middle one and held the other two. Griz and I both cleaned this stage.

Stage 5 was a log jam, so we skipped it. This would be our final stage now.

Stage 6 was a barricade with 8 ports cut in it. Shooter to engage a 7x7 square target at 435 yards from any 6 ports of the shooter's choosing. 2:30 I had 4 hits, Griz had 5.

Stage 7 was prone, and was called "pick your points". There were two pieces of steel at each distance - a large one, and a small one. 338, 426, 661, and 751. Large plates were worth one point, small plates worth 2.5 points. I don't recall the exact order of his and misses, but I picked up 1.5 points on Griz here. He was now beating me by only half a point.

Stage 8 was tires. Two tractor tires were on the ground, one laying on top and at an angle of the other one. Shoot left to right, one shot at each of three positions on the tires, at 491. Then, right to left, one shot in each of the same three locations, at a target 735 yards. 2:00

Stage 9 was a stairstep barricade. Shoot top to bottom. 5 rounds, 45 seconds. I hit 3, Griz hit 4. Used a tripod for rear support (grab the leg).

Stage 10 was a "long" stage. Prone, near to far, small targets. 2 points for first round hit and move on, or 1 point for second round hit. No third shots at any target, max 8 shots. 604, 683, 800, 888. I got 3 first round and one second round impact. 2:00

Stage 11 was the long ball, 904, 965, 1022. Prone. Same format as the previous stage. I cleaned it. 1:30

Stage 12 was shot from the bed of a truck, at 4 targets, FAR to near. You must hit to move on. 541, 389, 315, and 231. Targets were pretty small circles, except 231, which was a p-dog. Griz and I both cleaned this. 1:30

At the end of this stage, I was beating Griz by 1.5 points.


Stage 13 was back down to the bottom of the course (they had to relocate it due to the neighbor moving his cattle). So we hop in the truck, drive down, and get down there. It's a speed rack at 198, but with a twist: There are three different sized targets. Large target was worth 1.5 points, medium target was worth 2.5 points, small target was worth 3.5 points. The small target was still very hittable, at about 2 MOA - the problem was it was small enough that when you drilled it, it spun around the crossbar at least twice, and then continued to dance. Since we had only 30 seconds for this, it made back-to-back impacts on the small target all but impossible. The first guy on it was shooting a 300WM. He was a full rev off, and I watched him make impacts halfway up the hillside. He he refused to listen to my spotting calls (the guy on the spotter was worthless all day long - Griz and I both ignored him - I was on binos). Afterward, he proceeded to fuck around and "verify his dope". At 198 yards? Whatever. Get out of the way. Next shooter busted the target stand. Griz called for an RO to go fix it. So he walked down there. Waiting, waiting, waiting... Then Griz shot, and got 14.5 points by doing little, middle, middle, little, middle. This was my plan as well. NOW - when we walked away from the truck, I brought ammo, and I checked my dope. Had it written down, in the back of the truck. Left my bag and my phone and everything else there, just brought the rifle and bags. Get down on my rifle, it's got 2 minutes dialed on. "That seems like too much", I remember thinking to myself. "Should I walk the 250 yards back up to the truck to verify?" Well, I should have. First shot at the little target was a whiff. Dropped to 1.25 minutes, impact. Then drilled the middle target. Back to the little target, it was still dancing. But, I had to make up points. Shot at it anyway. Missed. Calmed down, waited for the target, hit it. Ended with 9.5 points. Dropped 5 to Griz. Shit. Now he's beating me by 3.5.

Stage 1 was 8 shots, 2 each, standing, kneeling, sitting, prone. My rifle weighs 23 pounds. I was upset about the previous stage, and couldn't get it out of my head. I ended up with 4 impacts. Griz cleaned it. Great. I just dropped 9 points in 2 stages. 2:00

Stage 2 was to your limits - same thing as KYL, except that if you miss, you keep your points. You can start over again - IF you have enough ammo. Max of 8 rounds, but there are 5 targets. Griz hit the first 4 and missed. But, he then proceeded to shoot at the small one - which he shot off the fuckin rack. So they had to drive out there (364 yards), look for it, couldn't find it, drive back, find another piece of steel, drive back out there, then go fix the speed rack that got broken again, then come back, then I could finally shoot. About a 20 minute delay.

Got up there, still had the previous two stages in my head, only hit 2 of the 5 targets. Dropped more points to Griz. 2:00


Stage 3 was a mover that broke, so it got tossed. On to stage 5, the rooftop. three targets, 406, 504, 665. You weren't allowed to dial, must hold over. One shot at each target from on top of the roof, then one shot at each target with your feet on the ground and the rifle on the roof. I hit 2, Griz cleaned it. 2:00.


I was bent. So bent. I dropped SO many points in only 4 stages it was mind boggling. This was a cash match, paid out the top 4, pot was $2k.

Griz ended up finishing 3rd. I finished 11th. Out of 46 shooters. Still a great showing, given the caliber of guys who were there. Dominic Wieseler (took second at Walker Draw) was there, I beat him. Eli Grow, beat me by 2 places at the Draw - I beat him at this match as well.

I'm getting better, but I could be SO much better if I had the mental discipline to get over a stupid mistake and move past it. Looking at the scores at the end of the day, I could have easily turned in a 4th place finish and gotten money - Griz was third, and 4th was 8 points behind him.

Oh well.


Had a nice long conversation with Griz afterwards. I was very fortunate that he got to watch my shooting all day long, so I asked for advice about shooting at the Grind this weekend. He said I just need to let the bad stages go, and I'll do fine. He also said on barricades, I need to learn that I only need to be able to hold about half a plate, not to "one hole". Just hit it and move on. I thought this was valid advice since I had timed out on both the stairstep and the port barricade stages.


No pictures, sorry. Was too busy competing. I will do my absolute best to take pictures at the Grind. If not, I'm sure there will be PLENTY of people who do that I can swipe their photos for here, and there's usually the official video that gets done after the fact as well.

Now, I have to figure out how to get 400 rounds loaded between now and Wednesday night. Leaving for TN Thursday at 0300.

Nice write up. Great you shot with Griz, very consistent shooter, nice guy.

I always remember what my high school golf coach told me, you got to hit the ball again, don't let the last shot effect your next shot. Once that bullet leaves our barrels, can't take it back, can't change it, don't beat yourself up, move on to the next shot.... Easier said then done sometimes. Guessing you watched Griz make a mistake or two then bounce right back.

Most positional shots, I can't hold on the target. One thing that's helped me, realizing as I'm breaking the trigger I'm still moving. For example if me and the reticle are moving L-R across the target and I break on the center of the target, most likely I'm going to impact slightly right of center. Lots of rounds on my 22lr has helped with timing.... Remember we're not BR shooters, just have to hit the plate!



I didn't understand this until I shot in Wyoming in a 30+ mph head wind. What? My dope must be off?

Have fun at K&M!

Sounds like great fun! Getting to shoot with an experienced guy, priceless!

Thanks for the AAR. Shoot straight in TN. Patron state of shootin' stuff!

RMD

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:
Nice write up. Great you shot with Griz, very consistent shooter, nice guy.

I always remember what my high school golf coach told me, you got to hit the ball again, don't let the last shot effect your next shot. Once that bullet leaves our barrels, can't take it back, can't change it, don't beat yourself up, move on to the next shot.... Easier said then done sometimes. Guessing you watched Griz make a mistake or two then bounce right back.

Most positional shots, I can't hold on the target. One thing that's helped me, realizing as I'm breaking the trigger I'm still moving. For example if me and the reticle are moving L-R across the target and I break on the center of the target, most likely I'm going to impact slightly right of center. Lots of rounds on my 22lr has helped with timing.... Remember we're not BR shooters, just have to hit the plate!



I didn't understand this until I shot in Wyoming in a 30+ mph head wind. What? My dope must be off?

Have fun at K&M!

Yeah, you're right. The stage I gained the most on him was one of the longer ones, I think the longest, actually. He only got 1 point there. But he got right back on the horse and cleaned the next stage.

Perhaps a decent book on sports psychology would help me with this aspect of it? I never really played any competitive sports in school, so I'm lacking that bit of experience.


I also learned that I really need a smaller bag. I ordered an Eberlestock X4 today, should be here tomorrow (don't ask how much overnight shipping is on one of those!).

I also ordered a muzzle brake. After being SO competitive at this weekend's match (if I hadn't come apart), having a brake I think could have gotten me one or two more hits. Depending on the target, that's probably 2-4 more points. I'll take every little advantage I can get. Since everyone else will have brakes, there's no point in my being nice to them, right?


Thanks for that wind image there. Don't think I've seen that one before, but that's about what we observed.

So....... Talk to me about 6mm competition cartridges.

Right now I'm kind of torn between 6BRX and 6x47.

In a perfect world, I'd *like* to feed from AW mags - though I know the BRX is too short for that. So that perhaps gives the nod to 6x47?

Can H4350 be used for 6x47, or does that cartridge also prefer Varget (like the BRX does?)? Since I've got about 45# of H4350 here, and less than 8# of Varget, I'd really like to not have to restock.

I'm also 100% positive that whatever cartridge I use, it needs to be small primer. No debating it, so please don't try to sell me on a cartridge I didn't mention if it's a large primer cartridge.

This will be a new rifle, on an Impact Precision action. The Defiance is staying 6.5x47 for the foreseeable future.

Thoughts???

I thought I would be shooting a 6x47 for many years until I chambered a 6BR.

Chambered the 6BR earlier this year on a single shot action/28" Heavy Palma with the purpose of shooting two monthly square range/belly matches, save on my 6x47 barrel.... those two matches about 1800rds yearly. By far the 6BR has been the easiest caliber for me to tune, holds vertical incredibly well, long strings of fire w/o effecting vertical, it's so easy! A few months after chambering it, another fellow shooter chambered a BR and with the help of a friend were able to mag feed 100% with AICS mags. I had the single shot Bighorn action cut for a mag. I now shoot the BR at Raton, max distance 880yds. I have to admit I enjoy beating the other 6's going 150-300fps faster at Raton as well as beating the big guns, 300WM/7MM's burning twice the powder....

Getting the BR to feed has opened the door to other calibers and go away from the 6x47. A few around me have chambered Dashers, feeding them in AICS mags. Seeing that same accuracy as the BR with a little more horse power and the ability to use a shorter barrel. Talked to Beanland about the Dasher earlier this year, he has chambered a couple Dasher barrels for PRS shooter Matt Clem. Talked to Matt at the Albuquerque PRS match, he's feeding the Dasher out of AW mags. Matt was in the squad ahead of ours watched him reliably feed for two days. I'm waiting on jelrod1 to get in a Medium Palma Hawk Hill barrel, when it arrives will have a 26" Dasher chambered.

BR feeding has also changed my mind about what to do for a center fire training rifle. Several around me have 223's or 223AI's set up like their comp rifles. I see the BR as a better option. Can shoot it in some matches and be competitive against other 6's and 6.5's, decent barrel life... I'm also sending my 6BR barreled action with about 2000rds on it to jelrod1, have him cut it to 24", thread for a brake, runs his Dasher reamer through it. Plan is to use it as a fire form barrel. FF the 300pcs of Lapua BR brass I have, then use it as a trainer. I'll shoot the FF loads at a couple square range matches. When that barrel dies will have him chamber a 6BR/Medium Palma.

I know, have shot with a local Benchrest shooter. He runs the 600/1000yd Benchrest matches at the Colorado Rifle Club. He knows what all the BR competitors are shooting, loads, barrel life, brass life.... 26" Dasher should be around 2950-3000fps with the Hybrids. Giving up only 50-80fps or so to a 24" 6x47, that's nothing.

Dasher vs BRX? I don't know of anyone feeding a BRX through AW mags. Don't see why it wouldn't work. Watched Travis in Nebraska feed his BRX reliably through AICS mags. The only knock for me with the BRX is the shorter neck, maybe not a big deal with jump friendly 105 Hybrids? With Norma coming out with Dasher brass soon.....

I tried 4350 in my first of 4 6x47 barrels. That barrel preferred Varget, stuck with Varget for the others. Others around me have good results with 4350. Good to see your ditching the can and going with a brake.

Yeah, Travis is where I got the idea for brx from. I ordered the impact precision action from him, I'll probably have him chamber the first couple pipes when it comes in. His rifles all seem to shoot, so I'll give him a chance.

In any event, I stopped in his shop when I was at that training in SD. His shop is in the same town my hotel was in, so I got to watch him chamber a few 338 dta barrels, and picked his brain a bunch. He prefers brx because it's just a little faster, without a WHOLE lot more powder than br.

He told me it wouldn't feed through aw mags. You're saying it can be done? Hrmmm....

Why did you get away from 6x47? Just barrel life? Lapua brass is available (still needs forming) for x47 or brx. He did mention the Norma dasher brass, but IL really a lapua fanboy. Probably should have mentioned that before.

As for going with a brake - it's less about recoil impulse (nonexistent with my rifle as heavy as it is) and more about length. Trying to maneuver a 35" tube through barricades is humorous for those around me, and infuriating for me on the stage...

Within the reach of BR it will shoot inside the 6x47 easily. Seeing that same thing with my buddies Dashers. Also barrel life and I have 20+ firing my 6x47 brass, it's about shot. Was going to get new brass anyway. Selling my 6x47 dies to someone local, almost pays for Dasher dies.

Lapua 6.5x47 brass doesn't need to be FF'd for 6x47, neck down and shoot. Did not see a difference between shot and new brass on target. I would shoot a big match with virgin brass.

Have you shot your 6.5x47 yet with a brake? It's going to be a completely different experience, concussion. If you don't like it, maybe go with a 22" 6x47?

Sorry, I didn't mean FF'd... But yes, it still needs work out of the box - can't just go buy 6x47 brass. That's what I meant.


No, I've never shot the 6.5x47 with a brake. Going to zero here on lunch. But I did have a brake on my old 308, so I'm not completely novice to them.

I'm sure I won't like the concussion, btu it is what it is. I use foam plugs, so I should be ok.

Well, it only took 18 hours, 4 wrong turns, and two blowouts on the trailer tires, but we are finally all set up here at k&m.

Tune up is at 1000 tomorrow am. Probably won't be posting much this weekend with activities and poor reception, but I plan to take as many pics as I can, and file an aar Monday or Tuesday.

w00t!

Good Shooting and Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by exx1976:
Well, it only took 18 hours, 4 wrong turns, and two blowouts on the trailer tires, but we are finally all set up here at k&m.

Tune up is at 1000 tomorrow am. Probably won't be posting much this weekend with activities and poor reception, but I plan to take as many pics as I can, and file an aar Monday or Tuesday.

w00t!

Got to love road trips. As if you didn't have enough on your mind. Shoot straight. Looking forward to hearing about this adventure.

RMD

For an alternative position shooting station, I re-assembled an old wooden cable spool we had sitting around. The spool is 30" tall and the round top is 41" in diameter. The top was sanded and varnished a long time ago, but it's still pretty slick. In other words, big potential for bipod hop. The spool's height is a bit of a pain -- kind of a funky high kneeling position behind the spool, or a semi-humping the spool which puts pressure on my diaphragm. The larger pillow rear bags (which I didn't bring today) might help with stability.

I only hung a few pieces of steel, but it appears all my steel locations can be engaged from the spool's location. Target distances range from 271 yards to 613 yards.

My 18" 1/7 twist AR-15 shoots Hornady 75 Match BTHP ammo quite well, but I shot a few targets with Hornady 75 SuperFormance 75 BTHP and Black Hills 75 Sierra Tipped Match King. Both the Superformance and TMK loads beat the regular Hornady 75 muzzle velocity by 130 fps -- which makes a noticeable downrange difference in drop and drift. But so far the speedy rounds can't match the accuracy of the regular Hornady 75. However, I wasn't my most accurate today -- Saturday was a long day of running a chainsaw and moving heavy logs around the ranch -- not a recipe for consistency the following day.

I confirmed this AR does shoot ADI (Aussie Outback) SMK 69 and Blitzking 55 rounds quite well. Almost to the accuracy of FGMM 69 and Hornady 55 Zmax/Vmax. And the ADI ammo is available at decent prices at a number of webz distributors.

Just a quick note on positional shooting. Almost every match that I've shot that has had man-made barricades, props, or structures to shoot off of or through, have not been stable, and at times very wobbly. Many times you're caught by suprise when you're running a course of fire, and come upon a prop that my look stable, but once you get your rifle on it, and start applying pressure, or loading your bipod, you quickly realize, Hey, this really sucks! For example, at the Walker Draw Match, on one of the courses, we started off with your rifle slung, or resting on the ground (your choice), and shooting an array of steel targets with your pistol. Once completed, you ran up a hill about 50-yards to a rifle position. There, you had a 4x4 post in the ground, with three wooden dowels or pegs at 45-deg angles (simulating tree branches????). You had to shot two or three steel targets with your rifle resting from each peg. As I approched the the prop, I though, this is going to be easy. No such luck, as the prop was buried only a couple feet into the soft ground, and the previous squads who shot the course, basicly turned it into a moving prop.

So Fritz, I suggest that you loosen the bolts on that cable reel or spool, or place a rock or two under it, to the point that the thing is wobbly, and then you can practice as what you may expect to encounter in a match.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:
So Fritz, I suggest that you loosen the bolts on that cable reel or spool, or place a rock or two under it, to the point that the thing is wobbly, and then you can practice as what you may expect to encounter in a match.

Given the only semi-level nature of our pasture, making the spool rock a bit isn't an issue. Move the spool an in or two and it can be pretty darn wobbly. Not that I would know anything about that. But I'm not loosening the #%$@ bolts in that spool. The thing was an absolute pain in the ass to re-assemble by myself. Lifting it into the pickup bed to move it to the pasture wasn't a bunch of fun, either.

I need to fell a couple of large pine trees (18" trunk diameter) which died this year. I think sections of their trunks could make some interesting shooting stations.

****
Hopefully the weather and our schedules cooperate over Thanksgiving and you can try the spool for yourself. I could even rock it back and forth for you during your shooting -- it's the least I can do....

quote:

Originally posted by fritz:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alpine:

****
Hopefully the weather and our schedules cooperate over Thanksgiving and you can try the spool for yourself. I could even rock it back and forth for you during your shooting -- it's the least I can do....

Yeah, we could put it up on its side, and I could shoot off the inside, and I'm sure you would be more than happy to try rollong it while I shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by Alpine:
Yeah, we could put it up on its side, and I could shoot off the inside, and I'm sure you would be more than happy to try rollong it while I shoot.

I believe you shot at the Sniper's Hide Cup. In the T3 Carbine course they had us shoot from a contraction that was supposedly from the Cup -- blue plastic barrels with the ends more or less cut out, barrels on their sides, supported in a wood frame. The barrels rotated pretty freely in the frame, the frame rocked back and forth with minor changes in body position, and our shoulders must be inside the barrel in order to shoot. Targets to the left had to be shot right handed and targets to the right had to be shot left handed.

That contraction was evil. Now a rolling cable spool....hmmmm....

Has anyone played with the Berger heavies in .223 ? I have been slinging the 77 grain OTM but may try and bump it up a little. I ordered some of the 80's to try out but Berger also lists a 80.5 and an 82. I have more mag length to use than the 77's take up at this time. I'd be curious what The OAL of the 77 vs. 80 vs. 80.5 and 82. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I was going to mention the blue barrel stage. So you had the opportunity to shoot through those. Since I had severial individuals shoot that stage ahead of me, I had the chance to watch them struggle with it. I was able to formulate a plan, and as long as I kept the majority of my body centered in the bottom of the barrel, it would rotate only a little. Those who like to shoot with their bipod as high as possible, and their body not inline with the rifle and target, really struggled with those barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by jlemmy:
Has anyone played with the Berger heavies in .223 ? I have been slinging the 77 grain OTM but may try and bump it up a little. I ordered some of the 80's to try out but Berger also lists a 80.5 and an 82. I have more mag length to use than the 77's take up at this time. I'd be curious what The OAL of the 77 vs. 80 vs. 80.5 and 82. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

A friend tried the 82's in his Rock River AR with Wylde chamber, and had to seat the bullets so far back (mag feed length) that it reduced case capacity, thus reducing velocity, and not gaining any advantage of the higher BC of the bullet.