quote:

Keep track of your rounds/distances this time

For sure .

Re-shot the match again today. Cold, it definitely was (6 degrees with wind chill at -5)! It was also very bright out. Things did not go as well as the first time through, and while the cold and glare were definitely factors, clearly there's a difference in having to acquire the dot under time.

Both of us missed at 25.

My times:

1.47
1.73
1.15
1.65
2.47
1.92
1.94 (miss)



And my son's:

1.23
0.96
1.33
1.18
2.33
1.44
2.31 (miss)



Throwing that one pissed me off (I felt it as soon as I pulled the trigger), so I shot it again, with gloves on this time (was thinking about Sigfreund's recent post about training with gloves, and decided why not take the opportunity to try it...plus my fingers were freezing!). Managed to keep them all on that time, with a pretty consistent cadence right around 1.5 seconds per shot all thew ay through. Obviously, I'd had the benefit of a warmup round at that point, but the gloves clearly didn't hurt anything.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Re-shot the match again today. Cold, it definitely was (6 degrees with wind chill at -5)!

Manly conditions for shooting. Kudos for giving it a go.

I've been whining that light snow and 30-40 degrees is forecasted for tomorrow -- my next chance at a repeat. Guess I need to shut up and enjoy the comparatively balmy conditions.

92fstech,
Thanks for starting this thread and keeping it going. The vast majority of discussions on gun forums -- all gun forums -- is equipment. What gun should I buy? What doo-dad should I accessorize my gun with to make it better? I saw this on the web, what do you guys think? How do I prepare for a fast rope drop into the food court, in full tactical gear, to save the world from the Golden Wok guy who is aggressively forcing samples on shoppers? People can choose to own guns, which is fine in itself. Or people can work on improving a skill set that is really, really hard to perfect. IMO competition shows a dedication to shooting that is a higher form of gun ownership.

Yesterday I shot controlled pairs on this carbine drill. First go through went fine, second time not so much. No time to show the results right now. Need to resharpen my chainsaw's chain for today's work -- yesterday's cutting took a toll on some of its teeth.

Fritz, I'm glad you're enjoying it and getting something out of it. I've enjoyed the online comraderie with this group, and the wide variety of different stages that people have come up with. My son wanting to get involved has been an unexpected bonus....he's started asking me on Tuesdays if there's a new one posted yet!

While my work schedule prevents me from being involved in any of the regular local competition stuff, I try to get out and shoot at least once a week, usually more. While I'll also admit to enjoying new guns and gear, I try very hard to have a practical reason for each one that I buy. While there are definitely "serious" guns as well as "fun" guns in my collection, they all get shot, and even the "fun" ones all contribute in some manner to marksmanship development. If I can't shoot it and be at least reasonably proficient with it, then it's just a liability sitting in the safe.

Even though this "match" is remote, it still definitely beats just shooting against yourself or the clock alone on the range. It can be humbling, a wakeup call to polish up certain skills, and provides some feedback that you won't get shooting by yourself. Obviously, live organized competition would take that to an even higher level, but not everybody has the opportunity to do that, and this has been a fun alternative.

I appreciate all of you guys getting involved here and the great stages you've come up with. Looking forward to the new one on Tuesday (looks like it'll be from offgrid, unless we have a last-minute contender with some exceptional skills)!

I have a different twist on the postal match -- heavy labor before shooting, which in my case was chainsaw duty. Here's the POS blowdown tree I attacked on Saturday morning; picture from August last year. 20 inches in diameter at the base, about 65 feet tall, roughly 125-130 years old. I'm continuing to work on tree damage from big snow and wind storms in March/April 2019.


Then from Saturday, after trimming some of its branches & nearby bent over saplings.


Sort of felled


And what was salvaged for future firewood. The rest was "thrown away", meaning placed on stream banks to slow erosion.


I practiced a fair amount this week -- dry firing with the AR9 in the basement. Thought I'd try controlled pairs, instead of just one shot per distance. I hit 14/14 -- the left card.


Times are for total time for each pair at each distance. Meaning that the first go at 3 yards was .63 seconds after the buzzer for the first round, 1.11 seconds after the buzzer for the second round. Thus, my second round occurred .48 seconds after the first. The times:
.63 -- 1.11
.95 -- 1.49
.96 -- 1.58
.83 -- 1.21
1.18 -- 1.82
1.24 -- 1.87
1.25 -- 1.79
Sometimes I brought the carbine up to my eye well, other times so as well. IMO this reflects in the times.

And then I tried my Wilson 16" AR15 in 223. By comparison to the 9mm SBR, it's a pig. 10.5 pounds versus 7.5 pounds. It's Vortex Viper PST Gen2 2-10x isn't the best for this exercise. I felt I shot OK for the first six distances, then all went to hell at 25 yards. At 25 yards I figured I missed both shots. Inspected the target and saw 12 holes. Well crap. So I shot 25 yards a second time -- didn't see any new holes. Well double crap. So...I shot 25 yards a third time -- didn't see any new holes. Well triple crap.

When I go home, I realized I hit 1 of 6 at 25 yards. This time I forgot to bring the manly pink sub-backer for between the 3x5 paper and the coroplast target. I couldn't see one of the edge hits. Times in the format of above:
.98 -- 1.39
1.00 -- 1.43
1.05 -- 1.48
1.06 -- 1.58
1.04 -- 1.64
1.30 -- 1.94
1.15 -- 2.20 my first go at 25 yards
1.29 -- 1.87 my second go at 25 yards
1.42 -- 1.99 my third go at 25 yards

I guess I was tired. And getting a bit cold from the snow storm that just started.
Oh well, fun times! Never done anything quite like this.

While that indeed looks like work, I'd still be more than happy to trade my property here in swampy Indiana for that Colorado pine forest...I can smell it just looking at it! . Nice shooting...I like the controlled pair idea.

fritz, those two targets look great, no misses. Here comes the but! Believe speed is harder then accuracy, it is certainly for me. While practicing drive yourself to find out the time at which your start missing. Drive yourself to the edge of being out of control in a safe manner. Make that your par time and work on getting acceptable accuracy at that speed, you'll miss getting there, I do! We all have an idea of acceptable accuracy, 3x5 target is reasonable to me. Also suggest going to five shot strings, shooting with a cadence, tracking your split times/pushing those as well. We can shoot one or two shoots safely on the edge of out of control crazy fast and get away with so-so fundementals. Five shots can't get away with so-so fundemtals, grip, recoil control, sight tracking and all that stuff. Have fun!

Any match I picked is going to a have time element. Hopefully that makes you guys just a little bit uncomfortable

Well, it's Tuesday. What have you got for us, offgrid?

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
While that indeed looks like work, I'd still be more than happy to trade my property here in swampy Indiana for that Colorado pine forest.

I guess it's a labor of love. The land has been in our family since the 1890's. Swedish ancestors either homesteaded or bought the land; I'm uncertain. As I get older, I have a greater appreciation for what it is. I consumed 2 tanks of fuel in my Stihl 310 saw prior to shooting on Saturday. All the branches & trunks I cut must be moved by hand. All this takes a physical toll.

Here's a older picture of the 16" AR15. I removed the bipod for this drill.


I considered shooting controlled triples with the 9mm SBR on Sunday, but it didn't work out. The day started with a freezing fog, just under 20 degrees. Burned 3 tanks of fuel in the Stihl on Sunday, at which time the temps have dropped to the "no fun" level. Maybe 70 yards upstream from Saturday's tree, this is the cluster of 5 trees I started working on by Sunday afternoon.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
Well, it's Tuesday. What have you got for us, offgrid?

Hopefully a fun one for you guys!

If we're not fast enough, it doesn't matter how accurate we are. And if we're not accurate enough, it doesn't matter how fast we are. This will test both.

Prefer carry pistol, any pistol works. Iron sights, red dots no matter.

10rds

Two targets, two distances.

3yd target, standard copy paper folded in half, hung vertically.

25yd target, B8

3yds .8 second par time. Start low ready, finger indexed, gun pointed a little below the target, not on sights/heads above sights. Like this guy. Pass or fail. Pass, make time and hit target anywhere. Fail, miss either time or target.



25yds not timed, start at will, start position doesn't matter. Pass or fail. Pass, break the 9 ring line or anywhere inside 9 ring. Fail, hit outside the 9 ring line.

Start at 3yds, then move to 25yds, alternate distances until all 10rds are fired, five shots at each distance. Shoot it cold. Not too leisurely between distances.

Highest pass hits win, tie breaker fastest time at 3yd hit, record your times.

Maybe dry fire the 3yd target at home on a timer to get a feel for that time!

I'll try to shoot it this Thursday.

Have safe fun!


RichardC, I talked to friend who commonly shoots at a indoor range. He has had good luck with his shot timer at his range when shooting next to other pistols. If a rifle is next to him, it'll probably pick up on his timer. Guess with the rifle muzzle outside of the side dividers the bang comes back into his cubicle?

quote:

Originally posted by offgrid:

RichardC, I talked to friend who commonly shoots at a indoor range. He has had good luck with his shot timer at his range when shooting next to other pistols. If a rifle is next to him, it'll probably pick up on his timer. Guess with the rifle muzzle outside of the side dividers the bang comes back into his cubicle?

Maybe I can borrow one from the club to try.

Nice course offgrid! We've been impatiently waiting for Tuesday, and of course had to go out and shoot it this afternoon. It's warmed up a bit....19 degrees today (wind chill around 5). I decided to use my P245, and I asked my son which gun he wanted, and of course he picked the EMP.



We hit the range about an hour before supper. Noah shot first.

His time on the 3 yard were:
Miss 0.62 - Fail
Miss 0.79 - Fail
Miss 0.77 - Fail
Hit 0.78 - Pass
Hit 0.74 - Pass



Noah's target at 25:
2 hits
3 misses




I decided to shoot mine all in DA, with gloves on. The outcome was....how do I say it? Humiliating. The word is definitely humiliating. And the worst part was, it wasn't the high-speed shots that gave me problems...it was the long range shots, which is what I'm supposed to be good at!

My times at 3 yards:
Hit 0.85 - Fail
Hit 0.69 - Pass
Hit 0.54 - Pass
Hit 0.68 - Pass
Hit 0.69 - Pass



And my 25 yard target:
1 hit
4 misses (2 completely off paper)



I'd like to be able to blame the gun, or the cold, or the gloves, or the fact that I shot it in DA...but I can't. I tried it again shooting the 25 yards in SA without gloves, with no significant improvement. Then I shot it with the EMP...faster at the 3, but still only marginally better at the 25 (kept them all on paper, but the score was about the same). 'Twas a rough day on the range, but at least I now have a good drill and a goal to work towards!

92fstech, it's awesome you and your son were chomping at the bit to shoot another match!

I really need to work on my match description skills! Meant to have the copy paper folded the other way to roughly match the size of the A zone. Oh well, it's all for fun. I'll shoot it the same way. The narrower width will make it a little harder.

I stunk it up at 25yds too. My excuse is the gusty wind. Fun stuff trying to hold that dot still in the wind! On one of the shots brought my gun back and waited on the gust to go by, didn't help. The low right miss is tough to look at!

Same G45/RMR I've shot with previously.

Didn't point shoot at the 3yd target, clearly saw the dot on all five shots. Stepped it up on the last shot!



Last/fastest time at 3yds.



7 passes/.41

The doors open for you guys!

Nice shooting guys. Uncertain if my work schedule will allow making it to the ranch this weekend and giving it a go.

Nice shooting, offgrid!

It wouldn't be a shooting day the ranch if I didn't put in manual labor up front. Three tanks of fuel through the chainsaw and all of the 5 trees in the mess are on the ground. The "before" picture is on January 11, in a previous post. I still have to pick up about 1/2 of the bucked logs in this photo, however. Next time...


Up front, I must disqualify my results from this go around. As I was setting up the targets, I realized I forgot to print a B-8 target and bring it along. Doh! Found an 8" Dirty Bird target in my stash, so I used it. The 9 ring is about 5.5" in diameter, so it was at least in the ballpark. After I shot the pistol course of fire and did another go at the AR test from a few weeks ago, I realized I shot the accuracy portion from the wrong distance -- 23 yards. Double Doh! Oh well.

I shot this course of fire with a Sig P6 -- the old imports once used by German LEOs. Grayguns did an action job, so the SA pull is really quite good. I used SA for the accuracy portion. However, the DA pull on a P6 is long and uber heavy. Really heavy. Ugly heavy. Not my finest hour. I used DA for the close target at speed. I'm not speedy.


Not happy with my close target performance, I tried it again. But the second time I shot only the close target -- no alternating between close and far. I was still slow....ugh.

But wait, there's more... I did the 3-5-7-10-15-20-25 yard test, 3x5 card, with my AR9G again -- this time going for controlled triples. I'm enjoying this type of drill. It's giving me ideas for future work, and for ways to improve my performance in certain carbine matches.

I missed with only one round, the high hole in the pink. My fastest go was at 3 yards:
.67 + .26 + .55 = 1.48 seconds total

My slowest go was at 25 yards, where one of the misses occurred:
1.26 + .63 + .62 = 2.51 seconds total

Average times for the 7 distances:
.93 + .53 + .51 = 1.98 seconds total

FWIW, my average times for the 7 distances, two weeks earlier with the AR9G, for controlled pairs:
1.01 + .54 = 1.55 seconds total

This is fun, in its own warped way.

Man, you guys have less snow out there than we do here at the moment! I have a P6, and I agree, the DA pull on that thing is brutal. Compared to the smooth and relatively light DA on my P229 and P245...well, there's really no comparison!

I've been using this drill quite a bit since Offgrid posted it as well. I used a variant of it with the mini-cougar yesterday, and my son and I shot it with DA revolvers earlier this week. IMO it's a good way to judge both the accuracy and the instinctive pointability of a gun.

I also ran it with my duty gun, just for a benchmark. I'm finding that alternating between 3 and 25 yards for each shot really makes the 25 yard shooting harder...my groups are way bigger doing it this way than they are if I shoot 5 shots in a row with consistent follow-through...which I guess is understandable.

I've been recording my times, just to have a record, but I've been thinking that I may start shooting at least the 3-yard portion from the holster at least once every practice session. It's quick, doesn't cost much, and could be a good way to track progress over time.